Like I said. You don't understand. We are saved by faith (alone) apart from the merit of works (Romans 4:5-6) yet genuine faith does not remain (alone) apart from the presence of works. (James 2:14-24)
Saved by faith alone?
- Thread starter Lamar
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Heb11 doesn’t use ek pisteōs (“out of faith”) - it uses pistei, the dative, meaning “by” or “in” faith. So at best, the idea that works come “out of” faith you're importing from elsewhere. Hebrews shows faith functioning as obedient allegiance - very informative for how Scripture frames pistis as not "alone".
If saving faith must not remain alone, then the slogan ‘faith alone’ is already misleading. Again, the issue isn’t misunderstanding - it’s misdefinition. And while you repeat those verses, neither of them defines pistis.
You’re importing “works” into a discussion about how faith-alone theology misdefines pistis. The issue isn’t merit - it’s whether pistis includes what faith-alone theology and its slogan wrongly label “works.”
I applaud your patience and knowledge.
But mailmandan is a dyed in the wool faith alone regeneration theology pusher regardless of the facts. His insistence that his personal experience in the Roman Catholic Church is germane to the discussion is a sign of poor hermeneutics.
It is a rather simple question.
Are the chosen by God able to resist their fate?
Are the unchosen by God able to resist their fate?
If we are unable to resist our fate then we are coerced.
coerce
verb
(transitive)
to compel or restrain by force or authority without regard to individual wishes or desires
Not faith "alone" in the sense that you keep referring to. Whether by, in or out of faith, the bottom line is faith produces works and faith is not works. Throughout Hebrews 11, "by faith" describes the method or means by which the actions of faith were performed. Faith is instrumental means through which the actions were performed, rather than the actions themselves. Genuine faith is not passive and did lead to actions appropriate their faith in Hebrews 11, but their actions were not inherent in their faith. The actions of believers are presented as proof of their faith. We show our faith by our works. (James 2:18)
Faith that trusts in Jesus Christ "alone" for salvation is not misleading. What part of God imputes righteousness apart from works and saved by grace through faith, not works (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) can't you grasp? I already defined pistis using Hebrews 11:1 and the Strongs Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, but that was not good enough for you because you are only interested in your own personal definition.
Let me guess. You have your own personal definition of non-meritorious works that you "add" to salvation through faith, not works. Works-salvationists come up with all kinds of smoke screens and sugar-coated double talk in order to justify trying to "shoehorn" works "into" salvation through faith, not works.
Faith that trusts in justification alone, apart from obedience, is most definitely misleading
You can have all kinds of knowledge yet still be wrong about critical, Biblical issues. 2 Timothy 3:15 - and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. My experience in the RCC opened my eyes to a lot of false teachings. Also, the false gospel of the CoC is the result of bad semantics and flawed hermeneutics. My faith rests in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. (1 John 5:11-13) Praise God!
Have you placed your faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation? Are you trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of your salvation or are you trusting in your imperfect obedience/works to save you?
This question would be better asked of you. Are you obeying faith alone regeneration theology or the Jesus of the Bible?
It seems you are doing the former. Your insistence on defining general statements as all-encompassing is troubling. The absurdity of your reasoning is rather obvious.
Faith Alone Regeneration Theology is a theology without an example. A theology based on shoehorning a grammatical definitive into the verbiage of rather general statements. This is childish and puts all scripture at risk.
Something must have happened to you in the Roman Catholic Church that you are suppressing and using this theology as a coping mechanism.
False framing. It's not faith or works; it's fake faith which trusts in justification only or genuine faith that trusts Jesus and obeys his word.
I'm sorry, but that wisecrack at the end really made me laugh!
I could ask you, are you obeying salvation by works theology or the Jesus of the Bible? Feel free to answer my questions in post #2,392.
You did not answer my questions. I have no trouble answering both of those questions.
I have placed my faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation and I'm trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of my salvation. I am not trusting in works for salvation "in addition" to trusting in Jesus Christ for salvation.
See how easy that was for me to answer those questions yet so difficult for you?
I don't answer questions based on false framings. I correct the framing and answer.
You corrected nothing and instead, dodged my questions, which is very telling.
The phrase “saved by faith” is absolutely biblical (Ephesians 2:8–9, Romans 5:1), but the expression “faith alone” must be carefully understood — because Scripture never separates true faith from obedience and repentance.
We are saved by grace through faith — not by works
Ephesians 2:8–9 (KJV)
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.”
This makes clear that salvation is not earned; it’s a gift of God’s grace received through faith. No amount of good deeds can merit it.
But true, saving faith produces obedience and works
James warns us not to misunderstand faith as mere belief without fruit:
James 2:17 (KJV)
“Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.”
James 2:24 (KJV)
“Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.”
James isn’t contradicting Paul — he’s explaining that genuine faith is alive and proves itself by what it does. Works don’t cause salvation; they confirm it.
The harmony of Paul and James
- Paul emphasizes how we are justified — by faith, not by works of the Law (Romans 3:28).
- James emphasizes what kind of faith justifies — the kind that acts in obedience (James 2:21–24).
Jesus Himself joined faith and obedience
John 14:15 (KJV): “If ye love me, keep my commandments.”
Luke 6:46: “And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?”
Faith and obedience are two sides of the same coin — one trusts the Savior; the other submits to Him.
We are saved by grace through faith — not by works —
but saving faith is never alone. It is always accompanied by repentance, obedience, and love for God, the natural fruit of the new birth.
Galatians 5:6 (KJV): “Faith which worketh by love.”
Grace and Peace