Saved by faith alone?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Doll said:
Does that then mean the person is not in God's Salvific grace?
Click to expand...

It is what it says. To me, if a person believes in what he hears, but lives his life in a worldly way, he is not living the life in Christ, is he?

Therefore the works in Christ is synonymous to living righteously in Christ, not worldly. Otherwise, Jesus is not in you.

So yes, even though someone has faith in Jesus but is living worldly (cursing, lying, cheating, whoring, gambling, drunkenness, lasciviousness, adultery, fornication, etc), your faith is dead. Any sin separates you from God…..
This is why the OSAS belief doesn’t hold water!

“Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2‬:‭17‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
 
studier said:
How do you see this analogy as comparable to the Greek of verse(s) under discussion?
Click to expand...
In English we can use the simple present to convey a timeless fact. In Greek, one way of doing the same thing is to use an aorist subjunctive clause leading into a future tense clause, which is what we have in both the Greek and English sentences I compared.
 
TruthDefender said:
It is what it says. To me, if a person believes in what he hears, but lives his life in a worldly way, he is not living the life in Christ, is he?

Therefore the works in Christ is synonymous to living righteously in Christ, not worldly. Otherwise, Jesus is not in you.

So yes, even though someone has faith in Jesus but is living worldly (cursing, lying, cheating, whoring, gambling, drunkenness, lasciviousness, adultery, fornication, etc), your faith is dead. Any sin separates you from God…..
This is why the OSAS belief doesn’t hold water!

“Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2‬:‭17‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
Click to expand...
OSAS?
Another opponent of The Seal of Christ and Eternal Salvation.

"Any sin separates you from God….."
So,by your rubric, you've lost your salvation the moment you Sin. You're no longer reborn,redeemed.
You then have to crucify Christ all over again,believe he died for that new Sin to be redeemed and put under the blood,then be reborn in him.Again.
And again. Every single time you Sin and are separated from God.
 
Doll said:
OSAS?
Another opponent of The Seal of Christ and Eternal Salvation.

"Any sin separates you from God….."
So,by your rubric, you've lost your salvation the moment you Sin. You're no longer reborn,redeemed.
You then have to crucify Christ all over again,believe he died for that new Sin to be redeemed and put under the blood,then be reborn in him.Again.
And again. Every single time you Sin and are separated from God.
Click to expand...

Well you’re competing against God then!
You can definitely lose your salvation, if you don’t confess your sins and ask for forgiveness.

-“But your iniquities have separated you from your God; And your sins have hidden His face from you, So that He will not hear.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭59‬:‭2‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

-“For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6‬:‭23‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

“If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”
‭‭I John‬ ‭1‬:‭9‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
 
Magenta said:
Where is your honesty? I never said the will was coerced. That's what liars say who love to misrepresent.

Next time get some integrity to "play along."

PS also, your verse said zero about free will.
Click to expand...

Instead of name-calling, how about stating what you did/do say for those of us just joining?
 
Magenta said:
Where is your honesty? I never said the will was coerced. That's what liars say who love to misrepresent.

Next time get some integrity to "play along."

PS also, your verse said zero about free will.
Click to expand...
Once again, this thread is not about freewill.

But in the spirit of playing along:

There is either voluntary or involuntary choices.

Are choices limited, of course but choices nevertheless. Even a child knows this.

So where is my dishonesty?
 
Doll said:
OSAS?
Another opponent of The Seal of Christ and Eternal Salvation.

"Any sin separates you from God….."
So,by your rubric, you've lost your salvation the moment you Sin. You're no longer reborn,redeemed.
You then have to crucify Christ all over again,believe he died for that new Sin to be redeemed and put under the blood,then be reborn in him.Again.
And again. Every single time you Sin and are separated from God.
Click to expand...

Yes, you are crucifying Him over and over if you don’t repent and remain in your sins.
 
Lamar said:
Once again, this thread is not about freewill.

But in the spirit of playing along:

There is either voluntary or involuntary choices.

Are choices limited, of course but choices nevertheless. Even a child knows this.

So where is my dishonesty?
Click to expand...
I never said the will was coerced. But you ask me as if I had. That is dishonest of you.

I understand you do not like having your double standard pointed out to you. Just fold already.

Oh, and having the ability to make choices does not equate to having a will that is free.

Taken captive to do the will of the devil. I do understand FWers consider that freedom.

As if it is the devil's will for you to believe in God. Your lack of logic is glaring.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mailmandan
GWH said:
Verses should be interpreted in context. Don't prooftext.
Click to expand...
What in the "context" of Eph. 2:8-10 forces the reader to assume it should be see as all-encompassing instead of simply accepted as written?
 
Magenta said:
I never said the will was coerced. But you ask me as if I had. That is dishonest of you.

I understand you do not like having your double standard pointed out to you. Just fold already.

Oh, and having the ability to make choices does not equate to having a will that is free.

Taken captive to do the will of the devil. I do understand FWers consider that freedom.

As if it is the devil's will for you to believe in God. Your lack of logic is glaring.
Click to expand...
Once again this thread is not about freewill.

Stop with the word games.

Are our choices voluntary or involuntary?

Are we living in some Biblical Matrix?

Do we have the choice between the red pill or the blue pill?

Just show your hand.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DeanM
Lamar said:
Once again this thread is not about freewill.

Stop with the word games.

Are our choices voluntary or involuntary?

Are we living in some Biblical Matrix?

Do we have the choice between the red pill or the blue pill?

Just show your hand.
Click to expand...
I am not playing word games, and you suggesting I am is simply more of your dishonesty.

I asked you a question based on something you believe.

You asked me a question based on nothing I believe. It was based on your dishonesty.

But getting the truth out of you is not possible when you play your silly word games.

There are no verses articulating your beloved free will. You cannot even see your double standard.

C'est la vie.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mailmandan
TruthDefender said:
It is what it says. To me, if a person believes in what he hears, but lives his life in a worldly way, he is not living the life in Christ, is he?

Therefore the works in Christ is synonymous to living righteously in Christ, not worldly. Otherwise, Jesus is not in you.

So yes, even though someone has faith in Jesus but is living worldly (cursing, lying, cheating, whoring, gambling, drunkenness, lasciviousness, adultery, fornication, etc), your faith is dead. Any sin separates you from God…..
This is why the OSAS belief doesn’t hold water!

“Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2‬:‭17‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
Click to expand...
Doesn’t that simply mean that there is real faith, and pretend or hypocritical faith? I think that is the premise in much of what James has to say, “There is real faith and superficial, mere intellectual ascent.”
 
Solitude said:
People who claim to be saved by faith alone are really trying to enter heaven using their dead faith.
Click to expand...
I think taking a deep dive into what encompasses genuine faith in Christ means is important. The value of faith is the degree of trust in the “Object” of ones faith.
 
Magenta said:
I am not playing word games, and you suggesting I am is simply more of your dishonesty.

I asked you a question based on something you believe.

You asked me a question based on nothing I believe. It was based on your dishonesty.

But getting the truth out of you is not possible when you play your silly word games.

There are no verses articulating your beloved free will. You cannot even see your double standard.

C'est la vie.
Click to expand...
If we do not have freewill then what do we have???

Is this "honest" enough?
 
  • Like
Reactions: TruthDefender
NightTwister said:
We have limited (based on our spiritual nature) free will.
Click to expand...
Also known as self will, which is opposed to the spiritual things of God, which we might call God's will (the
spiritual things of God), which would also include the moral will of God, which we know as the commandments...

the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so.
 
Magenta said:
Also known as self will, which is opposed to the spiritual things of God, which we might call God's will (the
spiritual things of God), which would also include the moral will of God, which we know as the commandments...

the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so.
Click to expand...
Free will
Self will
God's will
Moral will

More word games.

Is the "mind of the flesh" voluntary or involuntary?
 
Lamar said:
Free will
Self will
God's will
Moral will

More word games.

Is the "mind of the flesh" voluntary or involuntary?
Click to expand...
Are you saying you do not have a will? If you do not have a will, how in the world can you call it free?

It is Scripture that man's will is opposed to God. The Bible is not word games. Why do you keep lying? Oh. You choose to.

The mind of the flesh is a slave to sin and incapable of choosing what FWers claim it can.

gospelfoolishness.png

The gospel is foolishness to the natural man, since he can neither accept nor comprehend the spiritual things of God. It is impossible for his incurably wicked heart to grow the seed of God’s Word into the good fruit of faith while he is captive to the will of the devil. Along with the rest of the world who does not know God, he is blinded to the truth and under the power and influence of Satan, rendered incapable of submitting to or obeying God, with Whom he is inherently hostile toward in his mind, for he craves what is contrary to the Spirit. He suppresses the truth in unrighteousness, refusing to come into the light because he is a slave to sin, a lover of darkness, defined as darkness itself, and his deeds are evil.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mailmandan
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back