No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !
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And the 144000 Jews do receive Jesus as their Lord and Saviour at the beginning of the 7 year Tribulation and are marked by God to preach the Gospel all over the world to the unbelievers all going through the the Horror of God's wrath =====
I did NOT say the Gentiles become the twelve tribes, I said they represent both Gentiles AND Jews - the redeemed of God. The 144,000 are NOT representative of earthly Israel they are of spiritual Israel who become saved "out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation . Read post 187.
No, they are not. The book is titled the Revelation of Jesus Christ - the revealing of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the Savior; therefore, the book is not a revelation of earthly Israel, but predominantly of Jesus Christ as God, Savior and judge. Verse 1:4 begins Christ speaking to the churches, not to Israel. The churches are apart from the nation of Israel because as a nation, they do not believe in/accept Christ as Savior, and therefore, as a nation are not part of the Church, but those who comprise the Church do believe in Christ, so the two are fundamentally different.
[Rev 1:1 KJV] 1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified [it] by his angel unto his servant John:
Do you know Jacob's connection to Abraham?
If Noah and his wife were Jewish and the wives of his sons were Jewish as well, how could any other race other than Jews be established?
But the Bible says they come out 12 Tribes that are only known for being the sons and grandsons of Jacob which is 100% physical. It says nothing about spiritual Israel anywhere.
Grandson of Abraham through Isaac.
We know that one of the wives of Noah's sons was not Hebrew.
There is also a spiritual Israel different than the earthly, physical Israel but also having twelve tribes with one hundred forty and four thousand total. If you look below, you can see the Bible makes clear that the ones who comprise the twelve tribes are the redeemed from the earth - they are the redeemed of the earth - not the redeemed just from Israel - but from the earth. The redeemed alone "sung a new song", but were taken out of EVERY KINDRED, and TONGUE, and PEOPLE, and NATION - not only from Israel. Follow through those who "sung a new song" below - only the hundred forty and four thousand could learn it and they were the redeemed "out of every kindred, and tongue and people and nation".
[Rev 5:9 KJV] 9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
[Rev 14:3 KJV] 3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
No, the seven years is a symbolic, not a literal, number. It's getting kind of late here now so rather than taking a chance of not explaining it correctly, I'll try to do so tomorrow.
Never said any differently, although I think the verb tense is did receive.
Well I dispute that ------as the 144000 Jews at this time still have there hearts hardened toward God ---as the 7 year tribulation hasn't happened yet ------
God in His Plan is allowing the Jews to keep their hardened hearts until the last Gentile is saved -----The only way the Gentiles were grafted in was because God allowed the Jews hearts to remain hardened to accepting Jesus as their Messiah and rejecting the New Covenant and the Jews who are in the promise are that way still -----so they do receive Jesus through Christ's faith --in the future -----before God unleashes His wrath on this earth and uses them to do His work during the Horror that is coming down the PIPE ----
God needed the hearts of the Jews to remain Hardened ----to reject Jesus and the Gospel to execute HIS PLAN which is still playing out ------
ROMANS 11
All Israel Will Be Saved
25 I do not want you, believers, to be unaware of this mystery [God’s previously hidden plan]—so that you will not be wise in your own opinion—that a partial hardening has [temporarily] happened to Israel [to last] until the full number of the Gentiles has come in;
Sure, a time is coming when large numbers of Jews will be reconciled to God. But they won't be grafted back in through the old covenant. Salvation has always been by grace through faith. And those reconciled to God this way were always the true Israel of God and heirs to the promises of God.
As far as eschatology is concerned, can you outline the book of Revelation for me?
Hearing and then seeing is a theme in Revelation.
Earlier in the same book, John records this passage:
“Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?”
But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth could open the scroll or even look inside it.
I wept and wept because no one was found who was worthy to open the scroll or look inside. 5 Then one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals.”
While John is weeping, the elder says to him "See, the Lion of the Tribe of Judah..."
John hears "Look, the Lion!" One would expect to see some type of a lion.
But then John turns to look and he sees this:
"Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain..."
Hears "Look a lion!" -> Sees a lamb that looked like it had been slain.
Now, we know that the lion and the lamb refer to neither animal but to a specific person: Christ Jesus.
This pattern is also relevant to the passage in Revelation 7.
John hears the number of those who were sealed;
Revelation 7 "Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel."
And then the number from each tribe is enumerated:
"From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed,
from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,
from the tribe of Gad... etc."
Notice, this was to be a list from "all the tribes of Israel" yet it is not: Dan is missing and Mannasseh, one of Joseph's sons, is added.
So, just from the text (and excluding any religious gymnastics) we should know that this is NOT a list of the physical tribes of Israel.
This is something else.
But let's continue...
So John hears "144,000 from the tribes of Israel!" (a specific number and specific types of people) and then he looks and sees...
"After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb."
...he sees a great multitude no one could count. And the multitude is comprised of 12x12x1,000, a complete number.
I could write nearly a page for every sentence above but let me conclude this:
Revelation 7 requires wisdom to understand, like the rest of the book. What John sees is not 144,000 Jews by the flesh. They represent something else.
Earlier in the same book, John records this passage:
“Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?”
But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth could open the scroll or even look inside it.
I wept and wept because no one was found who was worthy to open the scroll or look inside. 5 Then one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals.”
While John is weeping, the elder says to him "See, the Lion of the Tribe of Judah..."
John hears "Look, the Lion!" One would expect to see some type of a lion.
But then John turns to look and he sees this:
"Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain..."
Hears "Look a lion!" -> Sees a lamb that looked like it had been slain.
Now, we know that the lion and the lamb refer to neither animal but to a specific person: Christ Jesus.
This pattern is also relevant to the passage in Revelation 7.
John hears the number of those who were sealed;
Revelation 7 "Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel."
And then the number from each tribe is enumerated:
"From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed,
from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,
from the tribe of Gad... etc."
Notice, this was to be a list from "all the tribes of Israel" yet it is not: Dan is missing and Mannasseh, one of Joseph's sons, is added.
So, just from the text (and excluding any religious gymnastics) we should know that this is NOT a list of the physical tribes of Israel.
This is something else.
But let's continue...
So John hears "144,000 from the tribes of Israel!" (a specific number and specific types of people) and then he looks and sees...
"After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb."
...he sees a great multitude no one could count. And the multitude is comprised of 12x12x1,000, a complete number.
I could write nearly a page for every sentence above but let me conclude this:
Revelation 7 requires wisdom to understand, like the rest of the book. What John sees is not 144,000 Jews by the flesh. They represent something else.
The Rapture is not symbolic so the Tribulation fulfills Daniels physical 70th week.
The spiritual Israel has no Jew or Greek so there are no Tribes.
The physical Israel has the Tribes because it's Jews only.
Says who? If you can receive it the tribes refer to attributes of the nation of Christ as a whole.
With the inclusion of Manasseh we see a mixed-race man (Jew and Egyptian) representing a tribe of Israel.
Here is another "hear" and "see" example in Revelation:
An angel says to John "Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb’s wife.”
So, one would expect to see a woman.
But immediately after this:
"And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, having the glory of God."
But John sees a city.
And then he writes what he sees:
Her light was like a most precious stone, like a jasper stone, clear as crystal. Also she had a great and high wall with twelve gates, and twelve angels at the gates, and names written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: three gates on the east, three gates on the north, three gates on the south, and three gates on the west."
Because the "city" is people, we should understand these as descriptions of the attributes of the faithful in Christ.