Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[GWH]

yes

Then why do you say "no" regarding cooperating with God--or not?

 

[Jordon]

How much did Adam get for Eve? Was it more than 30 pieces of silver -- the price for which Judas sold out Jesus?

I have to say you go down some strange rabbit trails...which makes you a pretty tough act to follow.

here's another one for you

Adam sold his wife for a bite of the cherry

Esau sold his birth rights for a bowl of soup

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Deception is, to cause to believe what is not true; mislead.To catch by guile; ensnare.

Adam knew they weren't to eat. God told them they would die if they did.
The serpent questioned what God told Adam directly. He used guile on an innocent couple who didn't know such a caniving spirit.

satan used guile on Eve only.

If Adam wasn't deceived then he wilfully chose to disobey God.

Adam did what is instructed in Gen 2:24.

Maybe that is why Eve was forgiven and reconciled back to God.

The offering by God was for both Adam and Eve ... both were clothed by God ... do you believe God's offering was insufficient for both Adam and Eve?

She was told of God's prohibition by Adam. Adam did not lead her to the path of righteousness,obedience, but instead let her eat.

satan is the one who let her eat ... Adam was not present when satan beguiled Eve.

And then set a bad example by eating after her.

Adam left his Father to join his wife and become one flesh with her (Gen 2:24).
.

 

[Jordon]

Then why do you say "no" regarding cooperating with God--or not?

did I ?

 

[Doll]

Do not agree that Adam was with Eve when the serpent spoke to her.





Agree.





Do not agree that Adam was with Eve when the serpent spoke to her.





This verse does not state that Adam was with Eve when the serpent beguiled her.

This verse states that Adam was with Eve only when she gave him the fruit.





There is no indication that Adam was with Eve when satan spoke to her.

Your claim that "he didn't stop Eve" (which is an assumption) does not align with your claim that "man is meant to be the head of the woman" (which is true/not an assumption).

What you want me to believe is that Adam stood by ... listened to satan lie to Eve about what God told Adam ... then, without any correction of the lie of satan, Adam stood silent as he allowed Eve to eat in disobedience of Gen 2:17 ... then after that he decided he should eat in obedience to Gen 2:24.

So Adam was disobedient to Gen 2:17 ... but obedient to Gen 2:24 ??? that's what you want me to believe ???

I agree only that Adam ate after Eve ate.





There is no indication in the text that Adam was with Eve when satan beguiled her in order to "lead Eve to follow God's first law" ... so when Adam became aware that Eve had eaten, what Adam did was follow what is written in Gen 2:24.

The text indicates Adam was with Eve only when Eve gave him the fruit.

The text also indicates that Adam hearkened to the voice of his wife ... Adam did not hearken to the serpent. If Adam had been present when the serpent spoke to Eve, would Adam not have "hearkened" to the voice of the serpent as Eve had done? ... or stopped Eve from eating?

No, that wily, sneaky, despicable satan approached Eve when she was away from Adam and he deceived her with cunning craftiness.
.

Genesis 3:6
When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.

 

[Genez]

Why does grace remove all doubt. Sinners' actual sins alone raises doubts? The all-knowing righteous Judge of all the earth is uncertain about their sins?

The only Person God owes anything to in this universe is to be true to Himself and who He is in his essence. He owes it to Himself that all his decrees and actions bring him Glory since there is no one greater than He is. But the Potter doesn't owe his pots anything; for both the righteous and the wicked will glorify God.

Read Romans 1:18-20.
It says what God's grace which caused the unregenerate to see and acknowledge the reality of God while God was drawing them?

Left them to be, how?
To be without excuse!

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness ​

of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is ​

plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s ​

invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood ​

from what has been made, so that they are without excuse.​

​

If grace were not given them?
They would have never had been able to see what was needed to leave them to be without excuse!

They will have no excuse for their rejecting the drawing of God!

 

[Doll]

satan used guile on Eve only.

Genesis 3:6When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.

Adam did what is instructed in Gen 2:24.

Genesis 2:24
24 That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.

Please share the passage that names the mother and father of Adam.

The offering by God was for both Adam and Eve ... both were clothed by God ... do you believe God's offering was insufficient for both Adam and Eve?

Why both if Adam was not with her?

satan is the one who let her eat ... Adam was not present when satan beguiled Eve.

Please post the passage that contradicts Genesis 3:6 and 7.

6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.

Adam left his Father to join his wife and become one flesh with her (Gen 2:24).
.

Again,please post the passage where we are given the name of Adams Father. And mother.

 

[GWH]

did I ?

You said: "I see your a law giver then. And a works for salvation type."

I replied with a post that shared my belief that salvation is through faith,
and genuine faith motivates good works.

Then you said:
"Who the lord sets free will do his will which is free. If your not doing his will it's not free."

Which seemed not to have anything to do with my reply, but I took it to mean that souls are not free to cooperate with God's will,
nor are they free to resist His will.

Sorry if you meant the opposite, with which I agree.

 

[Jordon]

You said: "I see your a law giver then. And a works for salvation type."

still dont see where I said you where not cooperating with God.

I asked if you where a law giver because I asked a simple question and you replied with quite a few laws

That's all it was

 

[GWH]

still dont see where I said you where not cooperating with God.

I asked if you where a law giver because I asked a simple question and you replied with quite a few laws

That's all it was

My reply was this:

{{{I see you are unfamiliar with my view regarding God's requirement for salvation. For the full explanation please read the Kerygma thread or the corresponding Lesson about the Christian Creed on our website, but here is an introduction:

A crisis that threatened a Philippian jailer with death prompted him to ask Paul and Silas the most important question in life: “What must I do to be saved?” (Acts 16:30) This question is most important, because—as sinful and mortal souls—we need saving from corruption, both moral and physical. We need saving from physical death if we value or enjoy life, and we need saving from immorality or evil-doing if it results in unhappy existence, especially after this lifetime.

The reply of Paul and Silas was this: “Believe in the Lord Jesus.” (Acts 16:31) This is GRFS in a nutshell. Jesus Himself expressed GRFS even more succinctly using three, four and five letter words: “Ask… seek… knock…” (Matt. 7:7). This indicates that God graces every sinful soul with the ability or opportunity to seek salvation (cf. 1Tim. 2:3-4, Ezek. 33:11), which might be called “seeking grace” (Tit. 2:11). As Hebrews 11:6 states: “he [God] rewards those who earnestly seek him” (cf. Isa. 45:19). Seeking God is the beginning of saving faith, and not seeking God or rejecting His salvation in Christ is the essence of evil atheism or faith in I-dolatry (Rom. 3:11, 1:18-23). All humans sin, but every sinner has the opportunity to repent/have saving faith (per Rom. 1:20, 2:7, 3:21-22, 4:16 & 5:8-19).}}}

The only law in that reply was “Believe in the Lord Jesus.” (Acts 16:31) and maybe “he [God] rewards those who earnestly seek him”.

Do you agree with those and also with my commentary that cites quite a few Scriptures?

 

[Jordon]

My reply was this:

{{{I see you are unfamiliar with my view regarding God's requirement for salvation. For the full explanation please read the Kerygma thread or the corresponding Lesson about the Christian Creed on our website, but here is an introduction:

A crisis that threatened a Philippian jailer with death prompted him to ask Paul and Silas the most important question in life: “What must I do to be saved?” (Acts 16:30) This question is most important, because—as sinful and mortal souls—we need saving from corruption, both moral and physical. We need saving from physical death if we value or enjoy life, and we need saving from immorality or evil-doing if it results in unhappy existence, especially after this lifetime.

The reply of Paul and Silas was this: “Believe in the Lord Jesus.” (Acts 16:31) This is GRFS in a nutshell. Jesus Himself expressed GRFS even more succinctly using three, four and five letter words: “Ask… seek… knock…” (Matt. 7:7). This indicates that God graces every sinful soul with the ability or opportunity to seek salvation (cf. 1Tim. 2:3-4, Ezek. 33:11), which might be called “seeking grace” (Tit. 2:11). As Hebrews 11:6 states: “he [God] rewards those who earnestly seek him” (cf. Isa. 45:19). Seeking God is the beginning of saving faith, and not seeking God or rejecting His salvation in Christ is the essence of evil atheism or faith in I-dolatry (Rom. 3:11, 1:18-23). All humans sin, but every sinner has the opportunity to repent/have saving faith (per Rom. 1:20, 2:7, 3:21-22, 4:16 & 5:8-19).}}}

The only law in that reply was “Believe in the Lord Jesus.” (Acts 16:31) and maybe “he [God] rewards those who earnestly seek him”.

Do you agree with those and also with my commentary that cites quite a few Scriptures?

lol you see your off again, ok I know, the law is holy
And so is the jaw.

 

[posthuman]

How could Adam have resisted Satan since he never was tempted or deceived by him?

did Satan only attempt to murder Woman, not Adam?

if so, why not?

 

[posthuman]

Adam did not die in order for Eve to be made.

God placed him into what He calls a deep sleep. it is in Genesis the first mention of the term.

here's 54 more

1. Deuteronomy 31:16: “The Lord said to Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers.”
2. II Samuel 7:12: “When thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers.""
3. I Kings 1:21: “When my lord the king shall sleep with his fathers.”
4. I Kings 2:10: “David slept with his fathers.”
5. I Kings 11:21: “David slept with his fathers.”
6. I Kings 11:43: “Solomon slept with his fathers.”
7. I Kings 14:20: “Jeroboam...slept with his fathers.”
8. I Kings 14:31: “Rehoboam slept with his fathers.”
9. I Kings 15:8: “Abijam slept with his fathers.”
10. I Kings 15:24: “Asa slept with his fathers.”
11. I Kings 16:6: “Baasha slept with his fathers.”
12. I Kings 16:28: “Omri slept with his fathers.”
13. I Kings 22:40: “Ahab slept with his fathers.”
14. I Kings 22:50: “Jehoshaphat slept with his fathers.”
15. II Kings 8:24: “Joram slept with his fathers”
16. II Kings 10:35: “Jehu slept with his fathers”
17. II Kings 13:9: “Jehoahaz slept with his fathers”
18. II Kings 13:13: “Joash slept with his fathers”
19. II Kings 14:16: “Jehoash slept with his fathers”
20. II Kings 14:22: “The king slept with his fathers”
21. II Kings 14:29: “Jeroboam slept with his fathers”
22. II Kings 15:7: “Azariah slept with his fathers”
23. II Kings 15:22: “Menahem slept with his fathers”
24. II Kings 15:38: “Jotham slept with his fathers”
25. II Kings 16:20: “Ahaz slept with his fathers”
26. II Kings 20:21: “Hezekiah slept with his fathers”
27. II Kings 21: 18: “Manasseh slept with his fathers”
28. II Kings 24:6: “Jehoiakim slept with his fathers”
29. II Chron. 9:31: “Solomon slept with his fathers”
30. II Chron. 12:16: “Rehoaboam slept with his fathers”
31. II Chron. 14:1: “Abijah slept with his fathers”
32. II Chron. 16:13: “Asa slept with his fathers”
33. II Chron. 21:1: “Jehoshaphat slept with his fathers”
34. II Chron. 26:2: “The king slept with his fathers”
35. II Chron. 26:23: “Uzziah slept with his fathers”
36. II Chron. 27:9: “Jotham slept with his fathers”
37. II Chron. 28:27: “Ahaz slept with his fathers”

II Chron. 32:33: “Hezekiah slept with his fathers”

II Chron. 33:20: “Manasseh slept with his fathers”

II Chron. 32:33: “Hezekiah slept with his fathers”

Job 7:21: “Now shall I sleep in the dust”

Job 14:12: “They shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep”

Psalm 13:3: “Lest I sleep the sleep of death”

Psalm 90:5: “Thou carriest them away as with a flood; they are as a sleep”

Daniel 12:2: “Many of they that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake”

Matthew 9:24: “The maid is not dead but sleepeth.”

Mark 5:39: “The damsel is not dead but sleepeth”

Luke 8:52: “She is not dead but sleepeth”

John 11:11: “Our friend Lazarus sleepeth”

Matthew 27:52: “Many bodies of the saints which slept arose”

Acts 13:36: “David...fell asleep, and was laid unto his fathers”

I Cor. 15:20: “Christ is risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that sleep”

I Cor. 15:51: “We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed”

I Thess 4:13: “I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope”

I Thess. 4:14: “If we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus”

 

[posthuman]

ok, God searches your heart, and if that is what Adam really thought he was doing, there would be compassionate grounds for less of a sentence, he got a lifetime the reality is people do the wrong thing.

By the account of the bible he was with her and and he shouldn't have let it happen in the first place

But defending the husband out of all the times your wife may have drove you bonkers, is easily done lol.

But there's nothing to defend here bro he did the wrong thing, his punishment reflected that.

The better thought would be he served his punishment admirably as he carried it for 930 years

Satan was cursed for Woman's sin
the ground was cursed for Adam's

they were not cursed, tho they were chastised. they did sin.

Rufus is off the rails - the point is not that Adam is the savior, but that he does prefigure Christ in what he did.

Moses also, and we can literally find hundreds of things in the record of his life that prefigure Christ, but Moses also sinned.


the point of all this is that if you are only thinking of Adam as an idiot or an antichrist, you are both contradicting what Scripture says of him, and you are missing the whole point of why his account is recorded. it is there to testify of Christ, and it does, richly

 

[Magenta]

God placed him into what He calls a deep sleep. it is in Genesis the first mention of the term.

here's 54 more:

II Chron. 32:33: “Hezekiah slept with his fathers”

II Chron. 33:20: “Manasseh slept with his fathers”

Job 7:21: “Now shall I sleep in the dust”

Job 14:12: “They shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep”

Psalm 13:3: “Lest I sleep the sleep of death”

Psalm 90:5: “Thou carriest them away as with a flood; they are as a sleep”

Daniel 12:2: “Many of they that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake”

Matthew 9:24: “The maid is not dead but sleepeth.”

Mark 5:39: “The damsel is not dead but sleepeth”

Luke 8:52: “She is not dead but sleepeth”

John 11:11: “Our friend Lazarus sleepeth”

Matthew 27:52: “Many bodies of the saints which slept arose”

Acts 13:36: “David...fell asleep, and was laid unto his fathers”

I Cor. 15:20: “Christ is risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that sleep”

I Cor. 15:51: “We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed”

I Thess 4:13: “I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope”

I Thess. 4:14: “If we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus”

So Adam has already died how many times? 2 or 3???

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Genesis 3:6When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.

The verse states that Adam was with Eve only when she gave him to eat.

The verse does not state that Adam was with Eve when the serpent beguiled her.

Genesis 2:24
24 That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.

Please share the passage that names the mother and father of Adam.

The Father of Adam is God (Luke 3:38).

Just because Adam did not have a mother, does that invalidate that Adam left his Father and joined his wife in her fallen state? When the Lord Jesus Christ took upon Himself the form of a servant and humbled Himself, He left His Father ... the same Father Who was the Father of Adam.

What about single mothers ... whose sons are to leave mom to join their wives? ... are they exempt from Gen 2:24 because there's no dad in the picture?

Or single fathers ... their sons don't leave dad because the mother is no longer in the picture?

I have a friend who lost his wife when his children were young. He never remarried and he raised his children ... when his son married, the son was exempt from Gen 2:24?

The offering by God was for both Adam and Eve ... both were clothed by God ... do you believe God's offering was insufficient for both Adam and Eve?

Why both if Adam was not with her?

Because both sinned.

Just because Eve was deceived that does not mean she was without sin after she ate.

Please post the passage that contradicts Genesis 3:6 and 7.

6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.

I have already told you Adam was with Eve when she gave him the fruit and that Adam ate after Eve ate.

Again,please post the passage where we are given the name of Adams Father. And mother.

see above.
.

 

[Jordon]

Satan was cursed for Woman's sin
the ground was cursed for Adam's

they were not cursed, tho they were chastised. they did sin.

Rufus is off the rails - the point is not that Adam is the savior, but that he does prefigure Christ in what he did.

Moses also, and we can literally find hundreds of things in the record of his life that prefigure Christ, but Moses also sinned.


the point of all this is that if you are only thinking of Adam as an idiot or an antichrist, you are both contradicting what Scripture says of him, and you are missing the whole point of why his account is recorded. it is there to testify of Christ, and it does, richly

I'll say goodnight for now.
Seems like your hurting so I'll have 40 winks and see you again sometime.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

well I'm so pleased you recognise God uses his way to lead people then , and I'm glad you recognise God chose Abraham.

God imputed righteousness to Abraham when Abraham believed ... hopefully you believe what is written in Scripture concerning this matter.

So how About God putting his will into people then,

It's this a possibility

In the lords prayer it says thy will be done

When you say the lords prayer who's will is that refering to your will or his will,

Jesus said "thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven" ... you want God's Will in your life? follow the instructions in the instruction book (the Bible). Submit yourself to what He has written in Scripture.

Submitting yourself to what is written in Scripture does not mean you will be free from persecution or trials/temptations or afflictions ... or satan seeking after you ... just means you'll be able to endure those times in the safe refuge God has provided to every born again believer.

How can you be delivered from evil today can you do that by your own will or is it his will,

When your lead by temptation today who will leads you away from temptation, his will or your will

Romans 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

Just to be clear do you know that imputing means to be counted as.
And imputing does not mean something as been put into you.

So when it says Abraham's belief was imputed to him as righteousness it means his belief and expression of faith was counted as righteousness imputed to him, like a value

Scripture does not say that "Abraham's belief was imputed to him".

Scripture says righteousness was imputed to Abraham.

"it means his belief and expression of faith was counted as righteousness" - yes, this is a true statement. Abraham believed and righteousness was imputed to him.

Scripture does not state that faith was imputed to Abraham ... then Abraham believed ... then righteousness was imputed to Abraham.
.

 

[posthuman]

What do you think ?

i think you talk like you despise the Lord's chastening.

930 years isn't even one day in the sight of God.

Cain murdered his brother, and his punishment? bad at farming.

tell me more about how unfair you consider God to be lol

 

[cv5]

did Satan only attempt to murder Woman, not Adam?

if so, why not?

Evidently Adam could not be outsmarted by the second smartest creature of all creation.

Makes perfect sense oui?