possibly ... gotta take into consideration what's being preached from the pulpit ...
.
Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
- Thread starter LifelongLearner
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
.
That's good to know, it can be difficult I know, sometimes we make mistakes, I can come across that way, it's something that happens. I can sometimes have a box I put people into where I have to shut the lid on them and block them out my head completely
It's just like defenses mechanism, see it like talking in public on the internet it's impossible sometimes in religious debates, its also the dual complexity thing, the natural man hates being thought of as insignificant until he can realise he just a pin prick a spec of dust,
But if its any consolation magic dust,
As well the natural can get to easily offended and feel highly belittled by proper talk about how disrespectful people are. You could prick there conscience without realising it. Or make them feel belittled when you talk about people in a whole as in all people,
So I wondered when you said you love the grass do you smoke it to ?
Some people think it's ok in moderation and I heard it's legal in some states
That’s not stated anywhere either but that man was created good we agree there
abut then what’s actually stated after they ate the fruit ? They were “ enslaved to sin ? Or that they became like gods knowing both good and evil ? I say the latter is stated
“And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: ( like gods not slaves to sin ) and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.”
Genesis 3:22-24 KJV
That’s what is stated not “spiritual death “Not a word about @man having no Will “ or being “enslaved to sin @ but rather now they are in this boat
“Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.””
Genesis 4:6-7
a strange god didn’t tell cain he had no choice and was enslaved to sin . Instead he must have misinformed him by telling him to do good and overcome sins desire to rule over him
Sun wants to make us slaves and the thing you have read in Paul’s doctrine teaches us that when we choose to serve sin we become slaves to sin
“Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?”
Romans 6:16 NIV
He goes on to explain that they had all served sin and became servants of it and needed to be made free again
we aren’t born servants of sin we choose sin and serve it and become servants to it just like cain did the exact same process . We have a choice given by God and a Will that’s been corrupted by sin we need to have god renew and redeem it through believing the gospel
You guys should start accepting some of those things you constently explain aren’t true
Thats quite the scathing condemnation......but false.
But the truth is, I cannot remember even one occasion where any free-willer blasphemed God as you say.
Quite the contrary. Glorifying Him is standard operating protocol.
Well...you know the old adage: The devil is found in the [pesky] details! I'd bet my life that you loathe the details in the unconditional promises of the New Covenant as well, right?
And I thought you had me on permanent iggy....again. A "detail" that I did not forget.
Ignore does not have to be permanent.
I wonder sometimes if I'm in being pulled into a drama,
As I just can't fathom how any mature Christian would be so quick to defend all people who live by there own free will.
I've just pinched myself to see if I'm real, then the thought crossed my mind should i let that bother my intelligence.
Nar to silly lol, I wonder do you ever go to Shirley's on a Saturday ? Then smoke a joint
That was some herculean overcoming effort demonstrated by Adam in Genesis 3 that's a fact.if he had been blaming God for causing him to sin - - which is the most idiotic interpretation possible but somehow in the idiot visible church by far the most prolific - - why did God accept his words, not curse him, give him the promise of the Messiah, shed the blood of an innocent, spotless lamb, take away his filthy robe, clothe him with a garment made by the very hand of God Himself, and declare to all the angels BEHOLD he has become like Christ?
next time you sin try accepting no responsibility, telling God it's His fault, and see whether you get that kind of treatment.
First combating the assaults/lies of Satan (for who knows how long). Then executing his calculated gambit to eat of the tree so that the Woman would be saved from her now dire state of fallenness. Then resisting the temptation to take of the tree of life post-fall.
I take it that in a roundabout way, Adam defeated the dispossessed former king Satan, with all of the angels beholding.
What do you think?
And yes, its in there @Rufus . As you well know. Why deny it?
And yes, the entire thread knows that you are barking up the wrong tree regarding Adam. What you opine has been soundly and decisively refuted.
Rom 5:14
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
C'mon @Jordan ......I am referring to believers here, on this thread, who are also volitionists.
Not the entire unbelieving world out there who are exercising their free will contrary to God's will.
God actively and existentially and supernaturally works in the lives of all his chosen people. Yes, Paul particular encounter with the Lord was most spectacular but that doesn't mean that God doesn't work in very similar ways in the lives of his called ones.
Your preposterous "Adam theories" have been tarred and feathered and run out of town on a rail much like a snake-oil salesman @Rufus buddy.Both very much unlike Adam who became your SUPERHERO of Faith.
Yeah...of course, Paul coulda, woulda, shoulda.
Only if/when they are received in good faith little buddy.Both very much unlike Adam who became your SUPERHERO of Faith.
Yeah...of course, Paul coulda, woulda, shoulda.
What is delusional is that after 905 pages in this thread, you persist in attending your uber-Reformed dogmatically straitjacketed Church little buddy.
Of course they will! Look at Eve! God decreed her salvation before she manifested any signs of faith or repentance. No one can thwart God's purposes.
And by the way, why are you so inconsistent and hypocritical with your beloved FWT? When it comes to the Cross of Christ, you and your ilk reduce Him to a mere potential savior. He only makes salvation possible. God only offers to save people and only after they "received in good faith" the offer. Yet, when it comes to Gen 3:21, all these key, highlighted words above magically disappear! The implied slaughter of innocent animals becomes a done salvation deal! God did it, so both our first parents are saved. God actually saved A&E by what He did in v. 21!
It's a pity that you're so blind that you cannot detect your own inconsistencies and hypocrisy.
There are many professing Christians out there who look at Christ's atoning work as merely a free get-out-of-jail card. Very many, if not all, will be in for a very rude awakening on the Day of the Lord!
well first thing is God would have given him the promise because he was the first man alive and all men would come through him,if he had been blaming God for causing him to sin - - which is the most idiotic interpretation possible but somehow in the idiot visible church by far the most prolific - - why did God accept his words, not curse him, give him the promise of the Messiah, shed the blood of an innocent, spotless lamb, take away his filthy robe, clothe him with a garment made by the very hand of God Himself, and declare to all the angels BEHOLD he has become like Christ?
next time you sin try accepting no responsibility, telling God it's His fault, and see whether you get that kind of treatment.
Adam could have been anyone of us, as it's declared because sin entered in Adams nature it effected all mans nature.
Well its without doubt God still loved Adam, but unless I'm mistaken when someone repents to the lord they can be forgiven but still punished ?
Adam was given a lifetime sentence of punishment do you still think his confession was good ?
Cuz I don't see it, Adam may well have watched and let eve eat from the tree then accepted it himself,
I mean with all theses imaginations going on about Adam and eve why should this imagination be any less credible since adams punishment was severe.
It was Adams Job to protect the woman, and adams confessions and answer was, this woman you gave me give me some and I ate it.
That woman was his wife and no doubt a wife that God would have created that Adam could fall in love with.
So no his confession was not good because he had fallen, a confession in a fallen condition means nothing at first, and that's what it was a confession that was nothing,
Before the fall he would have loved eve watched her been besotted by her as God would have made sure of that , then after the fall he was all the opposite, he called eve nothing when he this woman you gave me
What's really incredible here is cv5 admits if they had ate from the tree he would have lived in a state of dieing forever, but yet he believes he was imputed with righteousness, because he made a connection between a garment of skin and a white robe ?
So what were left with to believe is Adam was imputed with righteousness because he made a sincere confession, he was then given a lifetime sentence of punishment and clothed in the same white robe as holy men in heaven ? And he was given great credit for not eating from the tree of life.
All I can say is wow what weed is he smoking
But do u hold any grudge I've thus belief nope as because it our nature that's responsible.
I don't dislike cv5 for not believing him but he pities us for not believing him.
Is this real bro I mean am I really having this discussion ?
honestly I've just about had enough.
I understand your beliefs and how you can come to them but I can't understand how you could lean on them completely the way you do and get so highly offended, because what your saying is completely something I've never heard of ever.
But anyway if your happy that's the main thing.
But I've had enough now.
Adam's "confession" (so-called) was anything but sincere. It was one of those confessions that essentially said, "Oh yeah I ate the forbidden fruit, BUT __________ _________ __________ ___________. (So feel free to fill in the blanks if you don't like what Adam said in Gen 3:12 .) It was virtually a BUT Monkey confession without the "but" because of the way Adam framed his reply to God.
As far as the "tree of life" is concerned, it would be comical, if it weren't so sad, that CV5 gives Adam credit for not eating from that particular tree. But did God share CV5's high and exalted opinion of Adam? Apparently NOT; for God DROVE his ENEMY, whom he very obviously did not trust, out of his Garden so that he wouldn't eat the fruit of that tree. And the Hebrew term translated "drove" is very often used regarding either God's enemies or the enemies of his chosen covenant people -- and it's a strong term. God drove out the pagan nations from the Promised Land; Christ drove out the money changers from the temple, etc. God didn't just politely show Adam the door out of the Garden. He forcefully and unceremoniously ejected Adam! Adam was cast out, expelled, thrust out of the Garden. Very strange and odd action to take against someone whom God allegedly reconciled (befriended) along with Eve.