This is a false framing that confuses the issue. If anyone wants to know what a pelagian believes research what Charles Finney taught. He was a total heretic. Nothing like what I believe.
Is it Total Depravity?
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This is a false framing that confuses the issue. If anyone wants to know what a pelagian believes research what Charles Finney taught. He was a total heretic. Nothing like what I believe.
yes ai follows mans ideas just like you
We're all following what men have written. The question is who is following those whose writings were inspired by God.
- The apostles' writings are inspired
- Those they taught were inspired and they wrote that man has free will
- Christian gnostics were not inspired and taught that man does not have free will
- Augustine was a former gnostic who formed the seeds of total depravity/inability into his theology
- Calvin developed his theology primarily from Augustine's writings and basically ignored what the earliest church fathers wrote on free will. He expanded on the idea of total depravity/inability
- Calvignostics get their theology from Calvin, while ignoring what the earliest church fathers wrote.
Let these two messages be proof: Never ask AI. It doesnt know a thing.
You can ask two different AIs to rank christian doctrines and they give different answers.
https://biblehub.com/topical/d/depravity.htm
Depravity
Topical Encyclopedia
Depravity, in theological terms, refers to the inherent corruption and sinfulness of human nature due to the Fall of Man. This concept is rooted in the belief that all humans are born with a sinful nature as a result of Adam and Eve's disobedience in the Garden of Eden. The doctrine of depravity underscores the need for divine grace and redemption through Jesus Christ.
Biblical Foundation
The concept of depravity is primarily derived from several key passages in the Bible. In Genesis 6:5, the extent of human wickedness is described: "Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great upon the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was altogether evil all the time." This verse highlights the pervasive nature of sin in humanity.
The Apostle Paul further elaborates on human depravity in his epistle to the Romans. Romans 3:10-12 states, "As it is written: 'There is no one righteous, not even one. There is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. All have turned away; they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one.'" This passage emphasizes the universality of sin and the inability of humans to achieve righteousness on their own.
Total Depravity
The doctrine of total depravity, a key tenet in Reformed theology, asserts that every aspect of human nature is tainted by sin. This does not mean that humans are as evil as they could be, but rather that sin affects all parts of a person, including their will, emotions, and intellect. Ephesians 2:1-3 describes the spiritual state of humanity: "As for you, you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you used to walk when you conformed to the ways of this world and of the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit who is now at work in the sons of disobedience. All of us also lived among them at one time, fulfilling the cravings of our flesh and indulging its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature children of wrath."
The Need for Redemption
The doctrine of depravity underscores the necessity of salvation through Jesus Christ. Romans 5:12-19 contrasts the disobedience of Adam with the redemptive work of Christ: "Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, so also death was passed on to all men, because all sinned... For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous."
Human Inability and Divine Grace
Depravity highlights human inability to achieve salvation through personal effort or merit. Ephesians 2:8-9 affirms, "For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast." This passage emphasizes that salvation is a result of God's grace, not human effort.
Conclusion
The doctrine of depravity serves as a foundational element in understanding the human condition and the necessity of divine intervention for salvation. It points to the profound need for the transformative power of the Gospel and the work of the Holy Spirit in regenerating and sanctifying believers.
Topical Bible Verses
Ephesians 2:1-3
And you has he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Topicalbible.org
Psalm 51:5
Behold, I was shaped in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Topicalbible.org
Depravity
Topical Encyclopedia
Depravity, in theological terms, refers to the inherent corruption and sinfulness of human nature due to the Fall of Man. This concept is rooted in the belief that all humans are born with a sinful nature as a result of Adam and Eve's disobedience in the Garden of Eden. The doctrine of depravity underscores the need for divine grace and redemption through Jesus Christ.
Biblical Foundation
The concept of depravity is primarily derived from several key passages in the Bible. In Genesis 6:5, the extent of human wickedness is described: "Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great upon the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was altogether evil all the time." This verse highlights the pervasive nature of sin in humanity.
The Apostle Paul further elaborates on human depravity in his epistle to the Romans. Romans 3:10-12 states, "As it is written: 'There is no one righteous, not even one. There is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. All have turned away; they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one.'" This passage emphasizes the universality of sin and the inability of humans to achieve righteousness on their own.
Total Depravity
The doctrine of total depravity, a key tenet in Reformed theology, asserts that every aspect of human nature is tainted by sin. This does not mean that humans are as evil as they could be, but rather that sin affects all parts of a person, including their will, emotions, and intellect. Ephesians 2:1-3 describes the spiritual state of humanity: "As for you, you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you used to walk when you conformed to the ways of this world and of the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit who is now at work in the sons of disobedience. All of us also lived among them at one time, fulfilling the cravings of our flesh and indulging its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature children of wrath."
The Need for Redemption
The doctrine of depravity underscores the necessity of salvation through Jesus Christ. Romans 5:12-19 contrasts the disobedience of Adam with the redemptive work of Christ: "Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, so also death was passed on to all men, because all sinned... For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous."
Human Inability and Divine Grace
Depravity highlights human inability to achieve salvation through personal effort or merit. Ephesians 2:8-9 affirms, "For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast." This passage emphasizes that salvation is a result of God's grace, not human effort.
Conclusion
The doctrine of depravity serves as a foundational element in understanding the human condition and the necessity of divine intervention for salvation. It points to the profound need for the transformative power of the Gospel and the work of the Holy Spirit in regenerating and sanctifying believers.
Topical Bible Verses
Ephesians 2:1-3
And you has he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Topicalbible.org
Psalm 51:5
Behold, I was shaped in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Topicalbible.org
Not him alone.
It was a good choice of words...
But, what followed was a bad application.
The natural man is minus the capacity and ability to think with spiritual realities.
I agree.
But that is where the train switches tracks with you.
Obviously, you now can comprehend spiritual realities.
I ask you?
What changes took place in you to make that possible?
You're distorting it...
Pelagianism is a Christian theological position that denies original sin and asserts that humans have the free will to achieve perfection without divine grace. It was condemned as heresy by the early Church, particularly by St. Augustine, who argued that humans are dependent on God's grace for salvation.
No one here is saying that.
So, what happens when a homosexual wants to treat another as he wants to be treated?
Human good has its limits.
On the other hand...
Divine good may anger another, and will do so, when divine prerogatives are upheld in the face of human good.
False framing is what you do denying that inability is taught in the Bible by Paul,
while continually bring in Gnosticism to confuse the issue and displaying your CDS.
Pelagian heretics claim man is good and can choose to believe with their God-hating hearts.
If that is your stance and it sure seems like it is, then you are a heretic who opposes what Scripture teaches.
Romans 7 v 14, John 8 v 34, Jeremiah 13 v 23, Romans 3 v 10 ~ We know that the law is spiritual; but
I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin.” Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? Neither are you able to do good - you who are accustomed to doing evil. There is no one righteous, not even one.
She has me on ignore.
Somebody else tell her that her own depravity is over-riding her reasoning ability, please?
Tell her the following:
Pelagianism is a Christian theological position that denies original sin and asserts that humans have the free will to achieve perfection without divine grace. It was condemned as heresy by the early Church, particularly by St. Augustine, who argued that humans are dependent on God's grace for salvation.
No one here is saying that.
We are not Pelagians.
It's an easy win for her as long as she keeps presenting her, 10,000 pound straw man.
She likes winning so much that she plugs her ears and covers her eyes in order to keep citing her wrongly placed position.
The same thing can be said about love thy neighbor as thyself. I look at it as instruction for the righteous who are seeking God on how to enter the sheepfold (see following verse Matthew 7:13). It is the ultimate righteousness, ie, justice/equity, because each will be judged by how they treat others.
How we treat others should be according to having, or not having, sound doctrine.
Having the Word.
Having Christ.
Read through this to understand what Pelagians believe. Very heretical and disturbing. This guy was the father of modern revivalism
https://www.monergism.com/disturbing-legacy-charles-finney
https://www.monergism.com/disturbing-legacy-charles-finney
Are you saved?
Yes? No?
Is that all we are to argue about and miss out on thousands of other doctrines to be found in the Bible?
To each his own subjective view.
I don't know really, it's a word salad really.
I mean a person can't win when it comes to reasoning with there own human emotions unless they've learned how to handle them.
How many times must you get bit before you learn to cope with being bit, coz if so many people doing the biting are all saying totally depraved means something else, then why choose to keep biting them people ?
unless somebody feels there totally depraved and there attacking you because they don't feel it's there fault ?.
Does that mean you are now equipped to learn thousands of other doctrines we need to know to mature in and live by?
not interested
Pelagian heretics assert that human nature is inherently good, not tainted by Adam's fall.
There are plenty of them here.