Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[BillyBob]

Good post.

Not many understand that Bathsheba was raped. The king gets what he wants.

Then you must agree that Christ the King gets what He wants and only what He wants, and man has nothing to do with it!.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Good post.

Not many understand that Bathsheba was raped. The king gets what he wants.

She probably wanted King David. She was bathing naked on the roof where she knew the king could see her. Probably gave him a come-hither look when he saw him looking at her.

 

[cv5]

Good post.

Not many understand that Bathsheba was raped. The king gets what he wants.

Jesus' mandate and decorum is nothing whatsoever like this dark Lord Morgoth (who's sole desire is to enslave all wills to his own) the determinists wrongly hypothesize.

 

[cv5]

Then you must agree that Christ the King gets what He wants and only what He wants, and man has nothing to do with it!.

Oooppps. That's exactly how the arch criminals Satan (the fallen FORMER king of earth) and fallen angels behave. The outcome of this criminal psychological profile being the Genesis 6 mass rape and domination of the human race that God called evil and then destroyed the planet.

 

[Jordon]

Don't confuse dogma for sound doctrine.

There is no denomination that teaches sound doctrine, except the very basic for baby Christians.
And, even then they will be wrong too many times.

Here is the problem. -2 Timothy 4:3 -

For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. ​

Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number ​

of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.​

MANY churches today have no clue as to how to teach sound doctrine as the means for growth and maturity.
Most never grow, and will be on the same level ten years from now, as today.
It is so common to see that many think it is normal, and will pick and choose which church pleases their
preferred way of thinking.

The Church of England is not exempt.

well what's the solution then ?.

Do you think the internet can make a difference to pulling down these bad choice doctrines

 

[Jordon]

Good post.

Not many understand that Bathsheba was raped. The king gets what he wants.

on what bases was she raped ?

King David Stole her innocence ?King David influenced her to commit adultery ?

I can only see that's what your implying here, but take is something forceful to make someone do something against there will ?

It's the will of The lord that marriage be honoured, only king David never did that.
So you could say that in this occasion king David if he was saved at this point which there is a good chance he was, ignored the prick of his conscience

 

[reneweddaybyday]

reneweddaybyday said:
God does not "chose someone for destruction". those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness are without excuse.

God allowing mankind to suppress the truth in unrighteousness does not mean God is not sovereign ...

Just as Rufus posted earlier
John 17:12
12 While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.
NIV

John 17:12 does not negate the fact that Judas suppressed the truth in unrighteousness so he is without excuse.


John 17:12 does not negate the fact that God allowing mankind to suppress the truth in unrighteouesness does not mean God is not sovereign.


Mark 14:21 The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! good were it for that man if he had never been born.

Judas was miserable after he betrayed the Lord Jesus Christ. He committed suicide once satan was through with him.

Not saying Judas was saved ... just noting what satan does to folks after he's done with them ... the whole ministry of satan is to steal, kill, destroy (John 10:10).
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

i don't believe that is the bruising of the heel, rather, the crushing of the head.

the cross is the victory, not a lost battle.

I believe the crucifixion was the bruising of the heal ...

I believe the resurrection and ascension was the bruising of satan's head ...

Ephesians 1:15-23 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints, Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers; That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.


Philippians 2:5-10 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth


Hebrews 2:8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.


1 Corinthians 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

whether would not is equivalent to could not, in terms of Judas, is equivalent to asking whether John 17:12 is a failure on the part of Christ to keep Judas.

note that there also, it is Christ - not they themselves - Who kept them.

so when you ask whether Judas would not believe means whether he could not, you are asking of God ((Jesus)) can fail.

so yeah i asked the same question instead of answering, hoping it was clear that the obvious answer to the reframed question is the obvious answer to both. i did this to further the conversation, not to hinder it.

i have the ineffable view of Christ. God cannot fail. there is your clear answer.

ergo, it is just as impossible that Christ could sin as it was that Judas could do anything other than throw the 30 pieces of silver and kill himself.

I understand that what occurred at the time of the crucifixion was fulfillment of prophecy ... and that every jot and tittle shall be fulfilled.

I believe that God allowing mankind to reject Him does not affect the sovereignty of God in any way, shape, or form. To me, Jesus having included Judas as one of the twelve strengthens/upholds what is written in Romans 1. There is no way Judas can even begin to formulate an excuse (Rom 1:20) come judgment day ... Judas saw the Lord Jesus Christ up close ... heard the teaching of the Lord Jesus Christ ... travelled with Him ... saw the miracles ... that's how I see the issue (why Judas was added as one of the twelve). So that he could be absolutely without excuse ... he lived in close proximity to the Lord Jesus Christ and continuously suppressed the truth in unrighteousness to the point where he would betray Him for 30 pieces of silver. Having said that, I do not believe Judas was without capacity to believe truth. He just suppressed to the point of doing what he did.

and, as I said, the crucifixion was fulfillment of prophecy all the way back to the fall of Adam and Eve ... God's promised seed was the Lord Jesus Christ ... the crucifixion was the bruising of the heal ... the resurrection and ascension of the Lord Jesus Christ was the bruising of the head of satan.
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

The whole point of the episode is that Judas (***Satan***) DID IN FACT possess the capacity/ability to truly repent and make good on the OFFER of reconciliation/fellowship that the Lord GRACIOUSLY provided.

I maintain that mankind either believes when God reaches out or the truth is suppressed in unrighteousness ... if a person believes, he or she receives the promise/blessing ... if a person rejects, he or she receives the consequence.
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Rom 11:6
This verse clearly teaches that grace and works are at opposition to each other, they cannot co-exist.

continue reading all the way to vs 20

Romans 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear

and do not forget what is written in Romans 4 (that faith is not works).
.

 

[Kroogz]

Oooppps. That's exactly how the arch criminals Satan (the fallen FORMER king of earth) and fallen angels behave. The outcome of this criminal psychological profile being the Genesis 6 mass rape and domination of the human race that God called evil and then destroyed the planet.

Yep. Hence the earlier conversation about Mary.

Mary had no choice in the matter. She was just "informed" about being impregnated....according to the reformed/calvie/tulip theory folks.

 

[cv5]

Yep. Hence the earlier conversation about Mary.

Mary had no choice in the matter. She was just "informed" about being impregnated....according to the reformed/calvie/tulip theory folks.

And according to them, she was lucky to get that much!

@BillyBob said: "GOD DOES NOT NEED YOUR PERMISSION!"

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Luke 1:38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.
.

 

[Solitude]

 

[lrs68]

Rom 11:6
This verse clearly teaches that grace and works are at opposition to each other, they cannot co-exist.
The Fwer believes that by God's grace we have been given a choice to make. We now have the choice to believe or not. And, if we make the right choice, we will be saved.
What utter nonsense! Grace cannot require a work to assist what Christ has done. . . .
You must have a real need to feel important in some way!

All the Verse is declaring that one cannot earn Salvation because it's an Act of God. But nowhere in that Verse or the Verses before and after say it's forced onto the person. But we have over 100 Verses saying choose, whoever believes which is choice, or the many others showing a person can either accept or reject what God has done.

Romans 1:21 says these people KNOW WHO GOD IS but choose not to acknowledge that God is God.

Romans 12:3 shows us that God has given EVERY MAN that has ever lived righteous or unrighteous a measure of Faith which is the requirement to be able to believe. And we see in Romans 1:21 they know who God is because what Romans 12:3 explains but still rejected God.

The Bible does nothing but shows when it comes to accepting or rejecting God the person has free will to choose what they want to do.

 

[HeIsHere]

Yep. Hence the earlier conversation about Mary.

Mary had no choice in the matter. She was just "informed" about being impregnated....according to the reformed/calvie/tulip theory folks.

It is really distrubing how "The Doctrine" destroys God's love and turns him into a tyrant, always demanding from his creation what it does not have, all by his design.

 

[Rufus]

Romans 5:18 says declared righteous, not made righteous. You clearly don't undertand the faith. Righteousness is a hope that we wait for through faith; it's not the present reality. Through faith we walk in Christ's righteousness until we are clothed with an incorruptible righteous body at the resurrection

For we by spirit of faith await the hope of righteousness. Galatians 5:5​

The clothing of righteousness occurs in this age. See the Parable of the Wedding Feast in Mat 22. The guests at the feast were invited during this age and were clothed with "wedding garments". See also 2Cor 5:21 and 1Cor 1:30. Just as the elect's sins were all imputed to Christ since he bore their sins in his body, so too His righteousness is imputed to His people. There's a two-way legal transaction that takes place between Christ and his elect.

 

[Rufus]

You really don't know the Bible very well outside your false doctrine.

I said they knew God but didn't acknowledge Him as God and Verse 21 says what I did.

21 because that, knowing God, they glorified him not as God, neither gave thanks; but became vain in their reasonings, and their senseless heart was darkened

I wasn't talking about Rom 1:21. I was referring to Rom 12:3 wherein the "measure of faith" that is given by God is given to his elect -- not the world. Romans was written to believers.

 

[BillyBob]

Have you noticed that the Reformed crew are hopelessly biblical

Thank you for finally admitting this. That's what we have been telling you all along!