Searching For Truth Seekers!

[Wansvic]

The normative way of stating the kerygma/GRFS in the NT is “Accept Christ Jesus as Lord” (as in 2Cor. 4:5 & Col. 2:6). The main points of Christian orthodoxy implicit in this statement can be explained or elaborated as follows:

1. There is a/one all-loving and just Lord or Creator God (Deut. 6:4, John 3:16, 2Thes. 1:6), who is both able (2Tim. 1:12) and willing (1Tim. 2:3-4, Ezek. 33:11) to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever.
2. Human beings are selfish or sinful (Rom. 3:23, 2Tim. 3:2-4, Col. 3:5), miserable (Gal. 5:19-21), and hopeless (Eph. 2:12) or hell-bound at the judgment (Matt. 23:33 & 25:46) when they reject God’s salvation (John 3:18, Rom. 2:5-11).
3. Jesus is God’s Messiah/Christ and incarnate Son, the way that God has chosen (John 3:16, Acts 16:30-31, Phil. 2:9-11) of providing salvation by means of his atoning death on the cross for the payment of the penalty for the sins of humanity (Rom. 3:22-25 & 5:9-11), followed by his resurrection to reign in heaven (1Cor. 15:14-28).
4. Thus, every person who hears the NT Gospel needs to repent and accept God’s grace or justification in Jesus as Christ/Messiah the Lord or Supreme Commander (Luke 2:11, John 14:6, Acts 16:31), at which moment God’s loving Holy Spirit of Christ indwells/baptizes the believer into the church (Rev. 3:20, Rom. 5:5, 1Cor. 12:13).
5. Loving Christ Jesus as Lord (Luke 2:11), God the Son (Matt. 16:16) or God in the human dimension (Col. 2:9) means reflecting divine love as empowered by the Holy Spirit, thereby obeying His command to love one another (Matt. 7:21, 22:37-40, John 13:35, Rom. 13:9)—forever (Matt. 10:22, Psa. 113:2), which will eventually achieve spiritual maturity on earth and heaven after Christ returns at God’s resurrection (John 14:6, 17&26, Rom. 8:6-17, Gal. 6:7-9, Eph. 1:13-14, Phil. 3:12-16, Heb. 10:36, 12:1, Jam. 1:2-4).

Jesus indicated GRFS in various ways, some stated in terms of faith (F) and some in terms of works (W):

From Matthew

1. Repent (4:17, F)
2. Recognize one’s spiritual poverty (5:3, F)
3. Be righteous (5:20, W)
4. Love your enemies (5:44, W)
5. Forgive those who offend you (6:14, 18:35, W)
6. Serve God (6:24&33, W)
7. Enter the narrow gate (7:13, F)
8. Do God’s will (7:21 & 12:50, F&W)
9. Hear and act (7:24, F&W)
10. Confess Jesus (10:32, W)
11. Love Jesus (10:37, F)
12. Give life to Jesus (10:39& 16:24-25, F)
13. Have no doubt (11:6, F)
14. Come to Jesus (11:28, F)
15. Learn from Jesus (11:29, W)
16. Be for Jesus (12:30, F)
17. Understand (13:23, F)
18. Be good (5:48 & 13:38,43,49, W)
19. Value salvation (13:44-46, F)
20. Believe Jesus (16:16& 21:32, F)
21. Become humble (18:3-4 & 19:14, W)
22. Forgive others (18:35, W)
23. Give to the poor (19:21, W)
24. Follow Jesus (19:21&29, F)
25. Yield fruit (21:43, W)
26. Dress appropriately (22:11-14, cf. RV 16:15, W)
27. Love God, neighbor & self (22:37-40, W)
28. Hold out until the end (24:13, F)
29. Keep awake (24:42 & 25:13, F)
30. Be ready (24:44, F&W)
31. Be trustworthy and useful (25:21&30, F&W)
32. Help Jesus’ brothers (25:34-40, W)
33. Be righteous/do right (25:46, F&W)

More from Mark and Luke

34. Accept the kingdom (Mark 10:15, F)
35. Believe the Gospel (Mark 16:16, F)
36. Receive baptism (Mark 16:16, W)
37. Be hated (Luke 6:22-23, W)
38. Lend (Luke 6:35, W)
39. Judge not (Luke 6:37, W)
40. Invite the poor to your party (Luke 14:13-14, W)
41. Use wealth wisely (Luke 16:9, W)
42. Stand firm (Luke 21:19, F)

From John

43. Be born again (3:3&6, F)
44. Come to the light (3:21, F)
45. Obey the Son (8:51 & 14:15, W)
46. Drink living water (4:14, F)
47. Heed Jesus (5:24, W)
48. Do right (5:29, W)
49. Work for the food of life (6:27, W)
50. Partake of the bread of life (6:33-35&51, F)
51. Eat the flesh and drink the blood of X (6:54, F)
52. Dwell within the truth (8:31&35, W)
53. Hate self; serve Jesus (12:25-26, W)
54. Accept Jesus’ words (12:47, F)
55. Follow Jesus’ example (13:15-17, W)
56. Dwell in Jesus and in love (15:5-10, F&W)
57. Heed his command (15:10-12, F)
58. Know God and Jesus Christ (17:3, F)
59. Believe Jesus is Christ/Son (20:31, F)

Do you?

To accept Jesus as Lord means to believe and obey Him. (Heb. 5:9)
Jesus said unless a man is born again he cannot see or enter the kingdom of God. (John 3:3-5)
Jesus stated, he who believes and is baptized shall be saved. (Mark 16:15-19)

Jesus' disciples were told to wait in Jerusalem for the promise of the Father AND that repentance and remission of sin would begin to be preached in the name of Jesus. (Luke 24:46-49)

Jesus gave the Apostle Peter the task of presenting the message to believers concerning how to be born again. The instructions involved water and Spirit confirming what Jesus said was necessary. (Matt. 16:15-19, John 21:15-17, Acts 2:4-42, John 3:3-5)

Don't be deceived! The NT rebirth is just as essential now as it was for those who first heard it:
"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers." Acts 2:36-42


Every believer is to accept Jesus' instruction not to proceed into ministry until equipped:

"Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." John 8:31-32

Again, don't be deceived! Believe what the word of God says about the NT rebirth. The truth is revealed and confirmed over and over in scripture. (Acts 2:4-42, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7, 22:16)

 

[tourist]

In my experience, including ministering with a SBC/ABC Baptist church in Catholic Maryland
where many members were married to RCs, most American Catholics reject papalism and the
pre-Vatican II Inquisition and affirm NT morality--like Protestants.

That was true for me too.

 

[Ouch]

The normative way of stating the kerygma/GRFS in the NT is “Accept Christ Jesus as Lord” (as in 2Cor. 4:5 & Col. 2:6). The main points of Christian orthodoxy implicit in this statement can be explained or elaborated as follows:

1. There is a/one all-loving and just Lord or Creator God (Deut. 6:4, John 3:16, 2Thes. 1:6), who is both able (2Tim. 1:12) and willing (1Tim. 2:3-4, Ezek. 33:11) to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever.
2. Human beings are selfish or sinful (Rom. 3:23, 2Tim. 3:2-4, Col. 3:5), miserable (Gal. 5:19-21), and hopeless (Eph. 2:12) or hell-bound at the judgment (Matt. 23:33 & 25:46) when they reject God’s salvation (John 3:18, Rom. 2:5-11).
3. Jesus is God’s Messiah/Christ and incarnate Son, the way that God has chosen (John 3:16, Acts 16:30-31, Phil. 2:9-11) of providing salvation by means of his atoning death on the cross for the payment of the penalty for the sins of humanity (Rom. 3:22-25 & 5:9-11), followed by his resurrection to reign in heaven (1Cor. 15:14-28).
4. Thus, every person who hears the NT Gospel needs to repent and accept God’s grace or justification in Jesus as Christ/Messiah the Lord or Supreme Commander (Luke 2:11, John 14:6, Acts 16:31), at which moment God’s loving Holy Spirit of Christ indwells/baptizes the believer into the church (Rev. 3:20, Rom. 5:5, 1Cor. 12:13).
5. Loving Christ Jesus as Lord (Luke 2:11), God the Son (Matt. 16:16) or God in the human dimension (Col. 2:9) means reflecting divine love as empowered by the Holy Spirit, thereby obeying His command to love one another (Matt. 7:21, 22:37-40, John 13:35, Rom. 13:9)—forever (Matt. 10:22, Psa. 113:2), which will eventually achieve spiritual maturity on earth and heaven after Christ returns at God’s resurrection (John 14:6, 17&26, Rom. 8:6-17, Gal. 6:7-9, Eph. 1:13-14, Phil. 3:12-16, Heb. 10:36, 12:1, Jam. 1:2-4).

Jesus indicated GRFS in various ways, some stated in terms of faith (F) and some in terms of works (W):

From Matthew

1. Repent (4:17, F)
2. Recognize one’s spiritual poverty (5:3, F)
3. Be righteous (5:20, W)
4. Love your enemies (5:44, W)
5. Forgive those who offend you (6:14, 18:35, W)
6. Serve God (6:24&33, W)
7. Enter the narrow gate (7:13, F)
8. Do God’s will (7:21 & 12:50, F&W)
9. Hear and act (7:24, F&W)
10. Confess Jesus (10:32, W)
11. Love Jesus (10:37, F)
12. Give life to Jesus (10:39& 16:24-25, F)
13. Have no doubt (11:6, F)
14. Come to Jesus (11:28, F)
15. Learn from Jesus (11:29, W)
16. Be for Jesus (12:30, F)
17. Understand (13:23, F)
18. Be good (5:48 & 13:38,43,49, W)
19. Value salvation (13:44-46, F)
20. Believe Jesus (16:16& 21:32, F)
21. Become humble (18:3-4 & 19:14, W)
22. Forgive others (18:35, W)
23. Give to the poor (19:21, W)
24. Follow Jesus (19:21&29, F)
25. Yield fruit (21:43, W)
26. Dress appropriately (22:11-14, cf. RV 16:15, W)
27. Love God, neighbor & self (22:37-40, W)
28. Hold out until the end (24:13, F)
29. Keep awake (24:42 & 25:13, F)
30. Be ready (24:44, F&W)
31. Be trustworthy and useful (25:21&30, F&W)
32. Help Jesus’ brothers (25:34-40, W)
33. Be righteous/do right (25:46, F&W)

More from Mark and Luke

34. Accept the kingdom (Mark 10:15, F)
35. Believe the Gospel (Mark 16:16, F)
36. Receive baptism (Mark 16:16, W)
37. Be hated (Luke 6:22-23, W)
38. Lend (Luke 6:35, W)
39. Judge not (Luke 6:37, W)
40. Invite the poor to your party (Luke 14:13-14, W)
41. Use wealth wisely (Luke 16:9, W)
42. Stand firm (Luke 21:19, F)

From John

43. Be born again (3:3&6, F)
44. Come to the light (3:21, F)
45. Obey the Son (8:51 & 14:15, W)
46. Drink living water (4:14, F)
47. Heed Jesus (5:24, W)
48. Do right (5:29, W)
49. Work for the food of life (6:27, W)
50. Partake of the bread of life (6:33-35&51, F)
51. Eat the flesh and drink the blood of X (6:54, F)
52. Dwell within the truth (8:31&35, W)
53. Hate self; serve Jesus (12:25-26, W)
54. Accept Jesus’ words (12:47, F)
55. Follow Jesus’ example (13:15-17, W)
56. Dwell in Jesus and in love (15:5-10, F&W)
57. Heed his command (15:10-12, F)
58. Know God and Jesus Christ (17:3, F)
59. Believe Jesus is Christ/Son (20:31, F)

Do you?

One more question with all of the scripture I have shared with you did I show you anything you didn't know?

As I said it takes a small book to try to expain things that are not true.

Yes matter a fact I do know but I keep it simple, HOW TO BE REBORN.


Acts 2:38-41
King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.


NOTICE, after THEY OBEYED the message THREE THOUSANDS SOULD WERE ADDED.

Fyi, it IS THE ONLY WAY TO BE REBORN.

After all that you posted this makes since to me.

Matthew 7:12-14
King James Version
12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.


I know we have been over this, HAVE YOU RECEIVED the Holy Ghost SINCE YOU HAVE BELIEVED?

Acts 19
King James Version
19 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

HOW WERE YOU BAPTIZED????

 

[GWH]

One more question with all of the scripture I have shared with you did I show you anything you didn't know?
As I said it takes a small book to try to expain things that are not true.
Yes matter a fact I do know but I keep it simple, HOW TO BE REBORN.

Acts 2:38-41
King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

NOTICE, after THEY OBEYED the message THREE THOUSANDS SOULD WERE ADDED.
Fyi, it IS THE ONLY WAY TO BE REBORN.
After all that you posted this makes since to me.

Matthew 7:12-14
King James Version
12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

I know we have been over this, HAVE YOU RECEIVED the Holy Ghost SINCE YOU HAVE BELIEVED?

Acts 19
King James Version
19 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

HOW WERE YOU BAPTIZED????

You showed me how someone ignores Scripture other than a few prooftexts.
Obviously I have received the HS, and I hope you have, because you seem to know just enough GW
to be dangerously judgmental, which is neither a gift nor fruit of the HS.
I was baptized the only way every believer can be baptized: in water and by the Spirit.

 

[GWH]

To accept Jesus as Lord means to believe and obey Him. (Heb. 5:9)
Jesus said unless a man is born again he cannot see or enter the kingdom of God. (John 3:3-5)
Jesus stated, he who believes and is baptized shall be saved. (Mark 16:15-19)

Jesus' disciples were told to wait in Jerusalem for the promise of the Father AND that repentance and remission of sin would begin to be preached in the name of Jesus. (Luke 24:46-49)

Jesus gave the Apostle Peter the task of presenting the message to believers concerning how to be born again. The instructions involved water and Spirit confirming what Jesus said was necessary. (Matt. 16:15-19, John 21:15-17, Acts 2:4-42, John 3:3-5)

Don't be deceived! The NT rebirth is just as essential now as it was for those who first heard it:
"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers." Acts 2:36-42

Every believer is to accept Jesus' instruction not to proceed into ministry until equipped:

"Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." John 8:31-32

Again, don't be deceived! Believe what the word of God says about the NT rebirth. The truth is revealed and confirmed over and over in scripture. (Acts 2:4-42, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7, 22:16)

What I said to Ouch in #184 seems applicable to you also.

 

[Ouch]

You showed me how someone ignores Scripture other than a few prooftexts.
Obviously I have received the HS, and I hope you have, because you seem to know just enough GW
to be dangerously judgmental, which is neither a gift nor fruit of the HS.
I was baptized the only way every believer can be baptized: in water and by the Spirit.

You are about imposible to deal with.

I don't claim to know much, I do know how to be reborn, it's clear you don't.

When I shared that JESUS accended twice did you like that? Something you didn't know right?

If you have not obeyed Acts 2:38 why do you think you have been reborn?

 

[decipher]

Catholic Mistake #4
Catholics wrote/gave us the Bible
God gave us the bible. The bible was written over a time period of 1500 years by 40 people who were all hand-picked by God. These books of the bible were written down on papyrus scrolls. Then what the catholic church did was gather all these papyrus scrolls together and put all of them into one book between the years 350 and 405 AD. So the catholic church organized the bible, which is great, but they did not write or give us the bible. That was all done by God.

 

[decipher]

Catholic Mistake #5
The Catholic Church prohibited Bible reading in other languages and in other translations.
The catholic church actually tried to stop the common man from possessing or reading the bible on their own and this intensified through the middle ages and later. Many catholics try to deny this, but let's take a look. The following excerpt is from an article by David Cloud entitled the King James Version in the latin vulgate. The Council of Trent placed the Bible on its list of prohibited books and forbade any person to read the bible without a license from a Roman catholic bishop or inquisitor. The council added these words that if anyone shall dare to read or keep in his possession that book without such a license, he shall not receive absolution till he has given it up to his ordinary. Rome's attempt to keep the bible from men has continued to recent times. Pope Pius VII, the pope from 1800 to 1823 denounced the Bible Society and expressed shock at the circulation of the scriptures. He said, it is evidence from experience that the holy scriptures when circulated in the vulgar tongue have through the temerity of men produced more harm than benefit. Vulgar tongue means any language other than Latin. Pope Leo the 12th was the pope from 1823-1829. In a letter written in 1824 called the protestant bible the gospel of the devil. In January 1850, he condemned the Bible Society and admitted the fact that the distribution of scripture has long been condemned by the Holy Chair. Pope Gregory the 16th who was pope from 1831 to 1846 rallied against the publication, distribution, reading, and possession of books of the Holy Scriptures translated into the vulgar tongue. In other words translated into other languages. This law is still in the catechism today. The Code of Cannon Law, paragraph 825.1 books of the sacred scripture cannot be published unless the Apostolic See or the conference of bishops has approved them. For the publication of their translations into the vernacular, it is also required that they be approved by the same authority and provided with necessary and sufficient annotations. It appears that the Roman Catholic Church hates anything that it cannot control and that includes any bible that is not in the Latin language. The Roman Catholic Church holds the belief that it and only it should interpret the scriptures for the followers of Jesus Christ. What a devious way to manipulate, dominate, and to control a religion. The RCC is ignoring Mark 16: 15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. All the world means different people in different languages yet, the RCC didn't want the Bible in different languages? Did the RCC seriously think that Latin would be the only language that the world would ever know?

 

[decipher]

Catholic Mistake #6
The RCC burned Wycliffe's bones
John Wycliffe was the most famous priest of his day. His learning was immense. He had been a leading scholar at Oxford and a chaplain to the king of England. More to the point, he spoke out boldly against the heirs of the popes, the organizational hierarchy of the RCC and the corruption of the clergy in his day. He argued for a return to the scriptures. If the people in England were to know the truth, Wycliffe reasoned that they must have the word of God in their own language. Under his direction, the bible was translated into English for the very first time. Copies of Wycliffe's bible were repeatedly condemned and burned by the RCC authorities. The RCC hated Wycliffe with such ferocity that 44 years after his death, they dug up his body, smashed it to pieces, burned his remains and threw the ashes into the swift river. What were his crimes? Preaching the bible? Translating the bible into English?

 

[Ouch]

You showed me how someone ignores Scripture other than a few prooftexts.
Obviously I have received the HS, and I hope you have, because you seem to know just enough GW
to be dangerously judgmental, which is neither a gift nor fruit of the HS.
I was baptized the only way every believer can be baptized: in water and by the Spirit.

I asked you if you have been filled with the Holy Ghost you said,

"Obviously I have received the HS"

Why would you think it's obvious, because your on this sight and call yourself a Christian?

Since you can't back up with HIS word what comes out of your mouth make it obvious you are not.

Does everyone filled with the Holy Ghost make false statement about HIS word?

This is what happens when your filled, did you lie again?

Acts 19
King James Version
19 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.


Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

 

[GWH]

I asked you if you have been filled with the Holy Ghost you said,
"Obviously I have received the HS"

Why would you think it's obvious, because your on this sight and call yourself a Christian?

Since you can't back up with HIS word what comes out of your mouth make it obvious you are not.
Does everyone filled with the Holy Ghost make false statement about HIS word?
This is what happens when your filled, did you lie again?

Acts 19
King James Version
19 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

It should be obvious from what I have said in my posts that God's HS loves you through me, despite your pejorative persecution
("you lie again"). I have thanked you for keeping me humble and credited you with helping to refine our website.

 

[Ouch]

It should be obvious from what I have said in my posts that God's HS loves you through me, despite your pejorative persecution
("you lie again"). I have thanked you for keeping me humble and credited you with helping to refine our website.

If you had the Holy Ghost you could learn from others and teach others the truth uning HIS WORD. You are as hard as a rock.

You will not accept anything and you believe your words are true over GOD'S word.

What do you call a liar?

I have challenged you and given you time to prove you false statements to be true, your still standing on those lies.

I asked you if you know where liars go, no reply.

You are far from humble, I will bet your website has the same lies that you share here which will lead those who believe you to Hell.

I have shared GOD'S word with you, I have shared how to be reborn, I have exposed you with your lies no reason for us to go on.

Your walk is between you and JESUS he will be the one judging you with HIS rule book in the end.

Matthew 10:14-15
14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

Best of luck.

 

[GWH]

If you had the Holy Ghost you could learn from others and teach others the truth uning HIS WORD. You are as hard as a rock.

You will not accept anything and you believe your words are true over GOD'S word.

What do you call a liar?

I have challenged you and given you time to prove you false statements to be true, your still standing on those lies.

I asked you if you know where liars go, no reply.

You are far from humble, I will bet your website has the same lies that you share here which will lead those who believe you to Hell.

I have shared GOD'S word with you, I have shared how to be reborn, I have exposed you with your lies no reason for us to go on.

Your walk is between you and JESUS he will be the one judging you with HIS rule book in the end.

Matthew 10:14-15
14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

Best of luck.

I DO learn from others; I just indicated that you have helped teach me humility, and I credited you with helping to refine our website.
The words I share are what I have learned from a life-long study of GW.
Part of what I have shared is where those who falsely accuse believers of being a fool/liar are in danger of going.
You have shared your opinion of what part of GW, mainly in Acts records about the history of the founding of Christ's church.
I agree that Jesus is my judge, which is why I have cited 1Cor. 4:3-5 several times.

 

[Wansvic]

What I said to Ouch in #184 seems applicable to you also.

My reply was directly related to your belief that the moment a person repents and accepts God's grace they receive the Holy Spirit. (your post 177) The scripture references I supplied reveal something quite different. And although you found my post to be judgemental it was not intended as such. I actually long for people not to be deceived. And impress upon as many as I can to go back and see what scripture actually says about the NT rebirth. According to Jesus the experience is essential, "Unless a man is born of water and Spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God."

 

[Ouch]

I DO learn from others; I just indicated that you have helped teach me humility, and I credited you with helping to refine our website.
The words I share are what I have learned from a life-long study of GW.
Part of what I have shared is where those who falsely accuse believers of being a fool/liar are in danger of going.
You have shared your opinion of what part of GW, mainly in Acts records about the history of the founding of Christ's church.
I agree that Jesus is my judge, which is why I have cited 1Cor. 4:3-5 several times.

If what it was I helped you with and what I shared with you did't show how to be reborn in your web sight or your life what good was it?

How to be reborn, there is ONLY one way.

Believe, Repent, get baptized in JESUS name for remission of your sin and JESUS fill you with the Holy Ghost "LIKE HE DID HIS DISCIPLES" "HIS DISCIPLES" in Acts 2:4, John 3:5, Acts 2:38.

Anything else is false gospel.

Best of luck.

 

[GWH]

My reply was directly related to your belief that the moment a person repents and accepts God's grace they receive the Holy Spirit. (your post 177) The scripture references I supplied reveal something quite different. And although you found my post to be judgemental it was not intended as such. I actually long for people not to be deceived. And impress upon as many as I can to go back and see what scripture actually says about the NT rebirth. According to Jesus the experience is essential, "Unless a man is born of water and Spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God."

Oh, good, and thanks for citing specifics, which is too unusual.

I see that you were objecting to me saying in the elaboration of the kerygma #4: Thus, every person who hears the NT Gospel needs to repent and accept God’s grace or justification in Jesus as Christ/Messiah the Lord or Supreme Commander (Luke 2:11, John 14:6, Acts 16:31), at which moment God’s loving Holy Spirit of Christ indwells/baptizes the believer into the church (Rev. 3:20, Rom. 5:5, 1Cor. 12:13).

Please explain what part of your reply and which Scriptures disputed the part in bold print, because I do not spot it in your #181.
IOW, I see no contradiction between what the bolded part says and saying, "Unless a man is born of water and Spirit he cannot
enter the kingdom of God." IMO they say essentially the same thing using different words.

Thanks.

 

[GWH]

If what it was I helped you with and what I shared with you did't show how to be reborn in your web sight or your life what good was it?

How to be reborn, there is ONLY one way.

Believe, Repent, get baptized in JESUS name for remission of your sin and JESUS fill you with the Holy Ghost "LIKE HE DID HIS DISCIPLES" "HIS DISCIPLES" in Acts 2:4, John 3:5, Acts 2:38.

Anything else is false gospel.

Best of luck.

It was good to teach TSers reading our posts the futility of trying to teach closed-minded people the truth that although
there is only one WAY to attain heaven, there are many ways of stating GRFS, with "be reborn" being the way Jesus stated it
in John 3:3&6, and other ways of stating it including these (some stated in terms of faith and some in terms of works):

From Matthew

1. Repent (4:17, F)
2. Recognize one’s spiritual poverty (5:3, F)
3. Be righteous (5:20, W)
4. Love your enemies (5:44, W)
5. Forgive those who offend you (6:14, 18:35, W)
6. Serve God (6:24&33, W)
7. Enter the narrow gate (7:13, F)
8. Do God’s will (7:21 & 12:50, F&W)
9. Hear and act (7:24, F&W)
10. Confess Jesus (10:32, W)
11. Love Jesus (10:37, F)
12. Give life to Jesus (10:39& 16:24-25, F)
13. Have no doubt (11:6, F)
14. Come to Jesus (11:28, F)
15. Learn from Jesus (11:29, W)
16. Be for Jesus (12:30, F)
17. Understand (13:23, F)
18. Be good (5:48 & 13:38,43,49, W)
19. Value salvation (13:44-46, F)
20. Believe Jesus (16:16& 21:32, F)
21. Become humble (18:3-4 & 19:14, W)
22. Forgive others (18:35, W)
23. Give to the poor (19:21, W)
24. Follow Jesus (19:21&29, F)
25. Yield fruit (21:43, W)
26. Dress appropriately (22:11-14, cf. RV 16:15, W)
27. Love God, neighbor & self (22:37-40, W)
28. Hold out until the end (24:13, F)
29. Keep awake (24:42 & 25:13, F)
30. Be ready (24:44, F&W)
31. Be trustworthy and useful (25:21&30, F&W)
32. Help Jesus’ brothers (25:34-40, W)
33. Be righteous/do right (25:46, F&W)

More from Mark and Luke

34. Accept the kingdom (Mark 10:15, F)
35. Believe the Gospel (Mark 16:16, F)
36. Receive baptism (Mark 16:16, W)

37. Be hated (Luke 6:22-23, W)

38. Lend (Luke 6:35, W)

39. Judge not (Luke 6:37, W)

40. Invite the poor to your party (Luke 14:13-14, W)

41. Use wealth wisely (Luke 16:9, W)

42. Stand firm (Luke 21:19, F)

From John

43. Be born again (3:3&6, F)

44. Come to the light (3:21, F)

45. Obey the Son (8:51 & 14:15, W)

46. Drink living water (4:14, F)

47. Heed Jesus (5:24, W)

48. Do right (5:29, W)

49. Work for the food of life (6:27, W)

50. Partake of the bread of life (6:33-35&51, F)

51. Eat the flesh and drink the blood of X (6:54, F)

52. Dwell within the truth (8:31&35, W)

53. Hate self; serve Jesus (12:25-26, W)

54. Accept Jesus’ words (12:47, F)

55. Follow Jesus’ example (13:15-17, W)

56. Dwell in Jesus and in love (15:5-10, F&W)

57. Heed his command (15:10-12, F)

58. Know God and Jesus Christ (17:3, F)

59. Believe Jesus is Christ/Son (20:31, F)

 

[Wansvic]

Oh, good, and thanks for citing specifics, which is too unusual.

I see that you were objecting to me saying in the elaboration of the kerygma #4: Thus, every person who hears the NT Gospel needs to repent and accept God’s grace or justification in Jesus as Christ/Messiah the Lord or Supreme Commander (Luke 2:11, John 14:6, Acts 16:31), at which moment God’s loving Holy Spirit of Christ indwells/baptizes the believer into the church (Rev. 3:20, Rom. 5:5, 1Cor. 12:13).

Please explain what part of your reply and which Scriptures disputed the part in bold print, because I do not spot it in your #181.
IOW, I see no contradiction between what the bolded part says and saying, "Unless a man is born of water and Spirit he cannot
enter the kingdom of God." IMO they say essentially the same thing using different words.

Thanks.

All detailed conversion accounts I referenced in post 181 (Acts 2:4-41, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7, 22:16) reveal people are not filled with the Holy Ghost the moment they believe in Jesus. And that belief in Jesus, repentance, water baptism in the name of Jesus for remission of sin and receiving the Holy Ghost/Spirit are essential in order to experience the NT rebirth.

That all of the referenced accounts give details involving water and Spirit is notable since this parallels what Jesus referenced in John 3:3-5. "Unless a man is born of water and Spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God." Obedience to water baptism is, by God's design, what brings about remission of sin for those who believe in Jesus and His sacrifice. (Luke 3:3, 24:47, Acts 2:38...) And according to Paul, "... if any man have not the Spirit of God/Christ, he is none of his. " (Rom. 8:9)

In Acts 2 - Individuals were filled with the Holy Ghost prior to submitting to the NT water baptism in the name of Jesus for remission of sin. The account does not specifically record the 3,000 experiencing the infilling of the Holy Ghost. But we know they did in fact have the experience because everyone who believes and obeys the instructions presented at Pentecost are promised that they will receive the Holy Ghost.

Acts 8 - The Samaritans (half Jew-half Gentile) did not receive the infilling of the Holy Ghost until days after they heard the gospel message and submitted to being water baptized in the name of Jesus for remission of sin.

Acts 10 - While Peter was yet speaking the Gentiles were filled with the Holy Ghost and afterward submitted to being water baptized in the name of Jesus.

Acts 19 - Paul's question in this account reveals the truth that many struggle to accept.
Notice, Paul said, "Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed?" Paul would not have asked that question if people receive the Holy Ghost simultaneous with belief.
In addition, the account itself confirms the point. Paul re-baptized those who had previously been water baptized by John. And, afterward at the laying on of Paul's hands the men received the Holy Ghost.
Why was it necessary for the 12 to be re-baptized in water? Because as Peter revealed at Pentecost, EVERYONE must be water baptized in the name of Jesus for remission of sin. And Paul reveals why everyone must obey the command, "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: ...
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed," (Romans 6:3-6)The comment in bold points us, yet again, to the truth that the stain of past sin is destroyed/remitted upon obedience to God's command of water baptism in the name of Jesus. And without the sacrificial death of Jesus this would be beyond the realm of possibility.

Acts 9 - reveals the infilling of the Holy Ghost did not occur the moment Saul (Paul) acknowledged Jesus on the road to Damascus.

Acts 22 - Reveals Paul had to submit to water baptism calling upon the name of Jesus in order for his sins to be washed away.


I hope this clarifies what I was trying to convey.

 

[GWH]

All detailed conversion accounts I referenced in post 181 (Acts 2:4-41, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7, 22:16) reveal people are not filled with the Holy Ghost the moment they believe in Jesus. And that belief in Jesus, repentance, water baptism in the name of Jesus for remission of sin and receiving the Holy Ghost/Spirit are essential in order to experience the NT rebirth.

That all of the referenced accounts give details involving water and Spirit is notable since this parallels what Jesus referenced in John 3:3-5. "Unless a man is born of water and Spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God." Obedience to water baptism is, by God's design, what brings about remission of sin for those who believe in Jesus and His sacrifice. (Luke 3:3, 24:47, Acts 2:38...) And according to Paul, "... if any man have not the Spirit of God/Christ, he is none of his. " (Rom. 8:9)

In Acts 2 - Individuals were filled with the Holy Ghost prior to submitting to the NT water baptism in the name of Jesus for remission of sin. The account does not specifically record the 3,000 experiencing the infilling of the Holy Ghost. But we know they did in fact have the experience because everyone who believes and obeys the instructions presented at Pentecost are promised that they will receive the Holy Ghost.

Acts 8 - The Samaritans (half Jew-half Gentile) did not receive the infilling of the Holy Ghost until days after they heard the gospel message and submitted to being water baptized in the name of Jesus for remission of sin.

Acts 10 - While Peter was yet speaking the Gentiles were filled with the Holy Ghost and afterward submitted to being water baptized in the name of Jesus.

Acts 19 - Paul's question in this account reveals the truth that many struggle to accept.
Notice, Paul said, "Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed?" Paul would not have asked that question if people receive the Holy Ghost simultaneous with belief.
In addition, the account itself confirms the point. Paul re-baptized those who had previously been water baptized by John. And, afterward at the laying on of Paul's hands the men received the Holy Ghost.
Why was it necessary for the 12 to be re-baptized in water? Because as Peter revealed at Pentecost, EVERYONE must be water baptized in the name of Jesus for remission of sin. And Paul reveals why everyone must obey the command, "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: ...
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed," (Romans 6:3-6)The comment in bold points us, yet again, to the truth that the stain of past sin is destroyed/remitted upon obedience to God's command of water baptism in the name of Jesus. And without the sacrificial death of Jesus this would be beyond the realm of possibility.

Acts 9 - reveals the infilling of the Holy Ghost did not occur the moment Saul (Paul) acknowledged Jesus on the road to Damascus.
Acts 22 - Reveals Paul had to submit to water baptism calling upon the name of Jesus in order for his sins to be washed away.

I hope this clarifies what I was trying to convey.

I understand that you base your beliefs on the rather convoluted way that Acts reports the relationship between faith and SB.

I have already explained that I view Acts as an historical account of how the church was founded, but I base my understanding
of the normative relationship between faith and baptism mainly on the doctrinal epistles, such as Romans 8, in which Paul said that every Christian has the HS, Romans 5:5, where he said that the HS was received along with love, and in Ephesians he said there is only one baptism, and in 1 Corinthians he said that the HS baptizes believers into Christ's church, and so forth, including the lack of emphasis on WB & SIT.

It makes no sense that God would replace the OT requirement of the work of circumcision with the NT work of baptism, and
Paul clearly indicated that it was Abraham's faith, not circumcision, that was essential. Also, in John 3 it is obvious that water signified the fluid that accompanies physical birth rather than baptism.

I trust we clearly understand why our beliefs regarding this issue differ, so now we can place our bets and see who is right
when we get to heaven.

 

[Wansvic]

I understand that you base your beliefs on the rather convoluted way that Acts reports the relationship between faith and SB.

I have already explained that I view Acts as an historical account of how the church was founded, but I base my understanding
of the normative relationship between faith and baptism mainly on the doctrinal epistles, such as Romans 8, in which Paul said that every Christian has the HS, Romans 5:5, where he said that the HS was received along with love, and in Ephesians he said there is only one baptism, and in 1 Corinthians he said that the HS baptizes believers into Christ's church, and so forth, including the lack of emphasis on WB & SIT.

It makes no sense that God would replace the OT requirement of the work of circumcision with the NT work of baptism, and
Paul clearly indicated that it was Abraham's faith, not circumcision, that was essential. Also, in John 3 it is obvious that water signified the fluid that accompanies physical birth rather than baptism.

I trust we clearly understand why our beliefs regarding this issue differ, so now we can place our bets and see who is right
when we get to heaven.

Thank you for responding. And I agree, we see scripture differently.

And I leave you with this to ponder. Why would Jesus state being born naturally is required in order to enter the kingdom of God? It doesn't make sense. Whereas, both water and Spirit are referenced in all detailed conversion accounts.

"Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except (unless) a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God". John 3:5