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Well, Blain, you have your work cut out for you! Are you sorry for mentioning that a third party is needed?
:love:
No I am not I have quite a bit of patience and I want to help settle this squabble but it is also important for you to answer @Ouch questions in the right way so far you haven't so please do this with scripture if you can if there is not scripture to back up your view then it just isn't biblical
 
I understand that apparently you did not read post #127 either, because it contains more Scripture than Ouch's rants/opinions!
Please do so, and THEN state specifically which question you do not find answered. Thanks.
Ok I will go check it out I must have missed it
 
Ok I will go check it out I must have missed it

Morning Blain, as you are checking out his aswers these are the quesions I asked him to back up which are from statment that he said.


Prove being filled with the Holy Ghost fills us with love.

Prove water baptism was replaced spirit baptism.

Prove that speaking in tongues was morphed into mear babble.

Prove that speaking in tongues stopped.

If you can see where he answered them PLEASE share it with me, I just see his opinion on what GODS word says.
 
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Morning Blain, as you are checking out his aswers these are the quesions I asked him to back up which are from statment that he said.


Prove being filled with the Holy Ghost fills us with love.

Prove water baptism was replaced spirit baptism.

Prove that speaking in tongues was morphed into mear babble.

Prove that speaking in tongues stopped.

If you can see where he answered them PLEASE share it with me, I just see his opinion on what GODS word says.

And notice that these are imperative statements, NOT questions.
 
And notice that these are imperative statements, NOT questions.

You know what they are, is that why you can't anwer them?


Prove being filled with the Holy Ghost fills us with love.

Prove water baptism was replaced spirit baptism.

Prove that speaking in tongues was morphed into mear babble.

Prove that speaking in tongues stopped.

If so you should have said something a month ago when I asked you to back them up!!

My left leg is now in the air, can you answer them now?
 
Ok I will go check it out I must have missed it

Sorry Blain, no reason for you to do anything on my part.

I know who is speaking the truth using GOD'S word as my gauge.

gwh's problems are between him and the author of the book JESUS himself.
 
It was actually the fulfillment of an old covenant shadow of the law in which the high priest was commisioned into the Levitcal priesthood by being washed with water, anointed and vested with holy garments of righteousness.

As the fulfillment of that type, Jesus was commissioned into the order of Melchizedek by the greatest Levitical priest to ever exist, ie John, through being immersed in water and anointed with holy spirit. He was already clothed with holiness and righteousness as witnessed by God's voice saying "This is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased"

And Moses brought Aaron and his sons, and washed them with water. And he put upon him the coat, and girded him with the girdle, and clothed him with the robe, and put the ephod upon him, and he girded him with the curious girdle of the ephod, and bound it unto him therewith. And he put the breastplate upon him: also he put in the breastplate the Urim and the Thummim. And he put the mitre upon his head; also upon the mitre, even upon his forefront, did he put the golden plate, the holy crown; as the LORD commanded Moses. Leviticus 8:6-9
And he poured of the anointing oil upon Aaron's head, and anointed him, to sanctify him. Leviticus 8:12
I am aware of the OT foreshadow you mention. I was addressing the misconception that the NT water baptism is part of the OT law. post 127.

I think something many overlook is the OT foreshadow reveals both the high priest AND his sons were commanded to be washed in water and anointed with oil in order to minister in the priest's office.

Ex 40:12-15
"And thou shalt bring Aaron and his sons unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and wash them with water.
And thou shalt put upon Aaron the holy garments, and anoint him, and sanctify him; that he may minister unto me in the priest's office.
And thou shalt bring his sons, and clothe them with coats:
And thou shalt anoint them, as thou didst anoint their father, that they may minister unto me in the priest's office: for their anointing shall surely be an everlasting priesthood throughout their generations."


Note the above scripture reveals Aaron and his sons acquire their priestly garments AFTER submitting to the command to be washed. I believe this reveals that believers of Jesus are clothed upon obedience to the NT water baptism command. And explains why the man lacked a wedding garment in the parable account of Matthew 22. And reminds me of the dilemma faced by those in Matthew 7:21-23, 24-27.


Also, 1 Peter 2:9-10 reveals born again believers are part of the royal priesthood:
"But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy."


And when and how does this occur? Just as seen in the OT foreshadow, the high priest's sons submit to being washed in water, are clothed, and are anointed with oil as well.

Acts 2:36-42
"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?


Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.


Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine ..."
 
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Yes, people should read Scripture rather than relying on either of our perspectives, and when they do so they will learn that
Luke 16:16a says "The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time the good news of the kingdom of God
is being preached."

John the Baptist is associated with the OT also in Matthew 3:3, which quotes Isaiah 40:5, and is referenced in Matthew 11:10-13, where Jesus concluded by saying "All the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John, and if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come."

Are you willing to accept it?
Matt 11:13
For all the prophets and the law prophesied UNTIL John.

Meaning the prophets and the law prophesied of things to come which were introduced via John's message.
 
Sorry Blain, no reason for you to do anything on my part.

I know who is speaking the truth using GOD'S word as my gauge.

gwh's problems are between him and the author of the book JESUS himself.
Well after re reading his post it does not seem that he answered your questions
 
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Well after re reading his post it does not seem that he answered your questions
What is sad, I don't even think gwh sees his errors.

The only reason I ask him questions is for him to look in GODS word to check himself.

I can only guess he's so set in his ways and said the trees are blue for so long that he has become color blind.

I will add, I also challenge him because if someone else reads his comments and believe him their blood will be on his hands, so I say something so their blood is not on my hands.

His comments are life and death comments.
 
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I am aware of the OT foreshadow you mention. I was addressing the misconception that the NT water baptism is part of the OT law. post 127.

I think something many overlook is the OT foreshadow reveals both the high priest AND his sons were commanded to be washed in water and anointed with oil in order to minister in the priest's office.

Ex 40:12-15
"And thou shalt bring Aaron and his sons unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and wash them with water.
And thou shalt put upon Aaron the holy garments, and anoint him, and sanctify him; that he may minister unto me in the priest's office.
And thou shalt bring his sons, and clothe them with coats:
And thou shalt anoint them, as thou didst anoint their father, that they may minister unto me in the priest's office: for their anointing shall surely be an everlasting priesthood throughout their generations."


Note the above scripture reveals Aaron and his sons acquire their priestly garments AFTER submitting to the command to be washed. I believe this reveals that believers of Jesus are clothed upon obedience to the NT water baptism command. And explains why the man lacked a wedding garment in the parable account of Matthew 22. And reminds me of the dilemma faced by those in Matthew 7:21-23, 24-27.


Also, 1 Peter 2:9-10 reveals born again believers are part of the royal priesthood:
"But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy."


And when and how does this occur? Just as seen in the OT foreshadow, the high priest's sons submit to being washed in water, are clothed, and are anointed with oil as well.

Acts 2:36-42
"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?


Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.


Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine ..."

Interesting thoughts...
 
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Matt 11:13
For all the prophets and the law prophesied UNTIL John.

Meaning the prophets and the law prophesied of things to come which were introduced via John's message.

Close, but no cigar. John also prophesied UNTIL Christ came, who came and was introduced by John at His WB,
thereby inaugurating the NT Gospel and fulfilling the OT when he was crucified and resurrected.

Are you not willing to accept this?
 
Close, but no cigar. John also prophesied UNTIL Christ came, who came and was introduced by John at His WB,
thereby inaugurating the NT Gospel and fulfilling the OT when he was crucified and resurrected.

Are you not willing to accept this?
John introduced the way of salvation which was officially begun on the Day of Pentecost.
 
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John introduced the way of salvation which was officially begun on the Day of Pentecost.

Now you have it about right: Jesus is the Way, who fulfilled/ended the OT Law and introduced the NT HS in JN 14, 15 & 16,
who came on Pentecost in Acts 2. So again, Luke 16:16a says "The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached." And John the Baptist is associated with the OT also in Matthew 3:3, which quotes Isaiah 40:5, and is referenced in Matthew 11:10-13, where Jesus concluded by saying "All the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John, and if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come, ...about whom it is written, 'I will send my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way before you.'"
 
Now you have it about right: Jesus is the Way, who fulfilled/ended the OT Law and introduced the NT HS in JN 14, 15 & 16,
who came on Pentecost in Acts 2. So again, Luke 16:16a says "The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached." And John the Baptist is associated with the OT also in Matthew 3:3, which quotes Isaiah 40:5, and is referenced in Matthew 11:10-13, where Jesus concluded by saying "All the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John, and if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come, ...about whom it is written, 'I will send my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way before you.'"
As I've stated over and over, the NT Gospel was presented at Pentecost as prophesied by Jesus. (Luke 24:47, Acts 2:4-41) Clearly, you don't accept this, and that's your perogative. No need to circle around yet again.
 
And notice that these are imperative statements, NOT questions.

Morning GWH, I would like to ask you to seek JESUS face, PRAY be humble and look at HIS word with fresh eyes.

Let everything go, whatever is on your mind let it go just look to JESUS and ask HIM for guidence, wisdom and understanding.

I know you love HIM, be humble and look at HIS word with open clear eyes.

PLEASE, PLEASE. ALL IN LOVE.
 
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As I've stated over and over, the NT Gospel was presented at Pentecost as prophesied by Jesus. (Luke 24:47, Acts 2:4-41) Clearly, you don't accept this, and that's your perogative. No need to circle around yet again.

Now you are wandering again and again. The Gospel was first presented by Jesus (Mark 1:15, Luke 2:10),
whose Holy Spirit was presented at Pentecost as prophesied by Jesus (in John 14:16-20, 15:26 and 16:13-15).
I accept both this truth and that the Gospel was preached to the Gentiles per Christ's Commission (Matt. 28:19-20,
Luke 24:47, Acts 2:4-41). Why don't you? What's the problem with believing both?
 
Edicts and Councils
1. Initiated in 303 AD by Emperor Diocletian, this was the last and most severe official persecution of Christians in the Roman Empire, aiming to eradicate the rapidly growing Christian faith. Edicts mandated the destruction of churches and scriptures, the arrest and torture of clergy, and eventually, universal sacrifice to Roman gods, punishable by death for refusal.
2. The Edict of Toleration by Emperor Galerius (311 AD) officially ended the Diocletian Persecution in the East and granted Christians the right to exist and assemble peacefully. While an important step, it did not restore confiscated property or grant full religious equality, only toleration.
3. The Edict of Milan in 313 AD by the Roman Emperor of the West, Constantine, and the Roman Emperor of the East, Licinius, not only reaffirmed religious toleration for Christians but also mandated the return of all confiscated Christian property, elevating Christianity's status significantly within the empire.
4. The Council of Nicaea (325 AD) called by the sole emperor of the Roman Empire and sun worshipper, Constantine, and presided over by him to settle the dispute involving the divinity of Jesus Christ. 1800 bishops were invited by only around 300 attended. Arianism is the belief in what Arius of Alexandria believed and taught, that Christ was a created being. The council condemned Arius as a heretic after he refused to sign the formula of faith which stated that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were three persons that made up one God. Constantine then exiled Arius, an act that, while manifesting a solidarity of church and state, underscored the importance of secular patronage in ecclesiastical affairs. All bishops were ordered to preach the Trinity.
5. Through the years,the West became mostly Nicaean, and the East mostly Arian. When the Spanish, and devout Nicaean Theodosius became emperor in 379 AD, he issued the Edict of Thessalonica in 380 AD. The Edict specifically targeted other Christian sects like Arianism, which held different beliefs about the nature of Christ. These were labeled as heresies with both divine and imperial retribution. The theological content follows: "... let us believe in the one deity of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, in equal majesty and in a holy Trinity". The edict then transforms this theological definition into a legal status: "We authorize the followers of this law to assume the title of Catholic Christians". For the first time, the state claimed the authority to determine who could legally bear this name. The consequences for those who did not conform were severe: "...but as for the others, since, in our judgement they are foolish madmen, we decree that they shall be branded with the ignominious name of heretics, and shall not presume to give to their conventicles the name of churches". The language is one of utter contempt. It strips non-Nicaean Christians of their religious legitimacy, their property rights as religious bodies, and their identity, recasting them in law as insane deviants. Finally, the edict makes explicit the threat of state-sanctioned violence: "They will suffer in the first place the chastisement of the divine condemnation and in the second the punishment of our authority which in accordance with the will of Heaven we will decide to inflict". This clause is the essence of the new state-church relationship. Theological error was now a civil crime, and the power of the Roman state was officially pledged to persecute religious dissent. The theological content follows: "... let us believe in the one deity of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, in equal majesty and in a holy Trinity". The edict then transforms this theological definition into a legal status: "We authorize the followers of this law to assume the title of Catholic Christians". For the first time, the state claimed the authority to determine who could legally bear this name. The consequences for those who did not conform were severe: "...but as for the others, since, in our judgement they are foolish madmen, we decree that they shall be branded with the ignominious name of heretics, and shall not presume to give to their conventicles the name of churches". The language is one of utter contempt. It strips non-Nicaean Christians of their religious legitimacy, their property rights as religious bodies, and their identity, recasting them in law as insane deviants. Finally, the edict makes explicit the threat of state-sanctioned violence: "They will suffer in the first place the chastisement of the divine condemnation and in the second the punishment of our authority which in accordance with the will of Heaven we will decide to inflict". This clause is the essence of the new state-church relationship. Theological error was now a civil crime, and the power of the Roman state was officially pledged to persecute religious dissent. Arian bishops were systematically deposed and expelled, and their churches were handed over to Nicene clergy. Theodocius's imperial decree had become the official doctrine of the Church. Everyone was forced to preach the Trinity under penalty of death. The enforcement of these laws culminated in a grim precedent: in 384 AD, the Spanish ascetic Priscillian and several of his followers were tried and executed by a secular court on charges of heresy, marking the first time that Christians were put to death for their beliefs by a Christian Roman state. The era of toleration was definitely over.
 
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Edicts and Councils
1. Initiated in 303 AD by Emperor Diocletian, this was the last and most severe official persecution of Christians in the Roman Empire, aiming to eradicate the rapidly growing Christian faith. Edicts mandated the destruction of churches and scriptures, the arrest and torture of clergy, and eventually, universal sacrifice to Roman gods, punishable by death for refusal.
2. The Edict of Toleration by Emperor Galerius (311 AD) officially ended the Diocletian Persecution in the East and granted Christians the right to exist and assemble peacefully. While an important step, it did not restore confiscated property or grant full religious equality, only toleration.
3. The Edict of Milan in 313 AD by the Roman Emperor of the West, Constantine, and the Roman Emperor of the East, Licinius, not only reaffirmed religious toleration for Christians but also mandated the return of all confiscated Christian property, elevating Christianity's status significantly within the empire.
4. The Council of Nicaea (325 AD) called by the sole emperor of the Roman Empire and sun worshipper, Constantine, and presided over by him to settle the dispute involving the divinity of Jesus Christ. 1800 bishops were invited by only around 300 attended. Arianism is the belief in what Arius of Alexandria believed and taught, that Christ was a created being. The council condemned Arius as a heretic after he refused to sign the formula of faith which stated that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were three persons that made up one God. Constantine then exiled Arius, an act that, while manifesting a solidarity of church and state, underscored the importance of secular patronage in ecclesiastical affairs. All bishops were ordered to preach the Trinity.
5. Through the years,the West became mostly Nicaean, and the East mostly Arian. When the Spanish, and devout Nicaean Theodosius became emperor in 379 AD, he issued the Edict of Thessalonica in 380 AD. The Edict specifically targeted other Christian sects like Arianism, which held different beliefs about the nature of Christ. These were labeled as heresies with both divine and imperial retribution. The theological content follows: "... let us believe in the one deity of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, in equal majesty and in a holy Trinity". The edict then transforms this theological definition into a legal status: "We authorize the followers of this law to assume the title of Catholic Christians". For the first time, the state claimed the authority to determine who could legally bear this name. The consequences for those who did not conform were severe: "...but as for the others, since, in our judgement they are foolish madmen, we decree that they shall be branded with the ignominious name of heretics, and shall not presume to give to their conventicles the name of churches". The language is one of utter contempt. It strips non-Nicaean Christians of their religious legitimacy, their property rights as religious bodies, and their identity, recasting them in law as insane deviants. Finally, the edict makes explicit the threat of state-sanctioned violence: "They will suffer in the first place the chastisement of the divine condemnation and in the second the punishment of our authority which in accordance with the will of Heaven we will decide to inflict". This clause is the essence of the new state-church relationship. Theological error was now a civil crime, and the power of the Roman state was officially pledged to persecute religious dissent. The theological content follows: "... let us believe in the one deity of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, in equal majesty and in a holy Trinity". The edict then transforms this theological definition into a legal status: "We authorize the followers of this law to assume the title of Catholic Christians". For the first time, the state claimed the authority to determine who could legally bear this name. The consequences for those who did not conform were severe: "...but as for the others, since, in our judgement they are foolish madmen, we decree that they shall be branded with the ignominious name of heretics, and shall not presume to give to their conventicles the name of churches". The language is one of utter contempt. It strips non-Nicaean Christians of their religious legitimacy, their property rights as religious bodies, and their identity, recasting them in law as insane deviants. Finally, the edict makes explicit the threat of state-sanctioned violence: "They will suffer in the first place the chastisement of the divine condemnation and in the second the punishment of our authority which in accordance with the will of Heaven we will decide to inflict". This clause is the essence of the new state-church relationship. Theological error was now a civil crime, and the power of the Roman state was officially pledged to persecute religious dissent. Arian bishops were systematically deposed and expelled, and their churches were handed over to Nicene clergy. Theodocius's imperial decree had become the official doctrine of the Church. Everyone was forced to preach the Trinity under penalty of death. The enforcement of these laws culminated in a grim precedent: in 384 AD, the Spanish ascetic Priscillian and several of his followers were tried and executed by a secular court on charges of heresy, marking the first time that Christians were put to death for their beliefs by a Christian Roman state. The era of toleration was definitely over.

The era of Roman Catholicism practicing NT Christianity was definitely over!