Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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cv5 said:
So you are telling us that you didn't actually of your own free will and volition "take it"?
I am not sure.........your response sounded more like dodging the issue than a straightforward answer.
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No. I recognized its presence within me, and that it was already given me. But my choices and actions had absolutely nothing to do with receiving it - I was but a recipient - all of the glory goes to God alone, none to me.
 
cv5 said:
Pretty disturbing rhetoric that's for sure....

Rev 12:10
And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
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Hey, to look on the bright side, at least it's genuine. I mean, if they love you, it's not because they want to.
 
sawdust said:
It is the Lord Himself who said believe in His Son so "believing" is meant to be a work of man but that is not what saves you nor does it produce faith in and of itself. God isn't believing on your behalf, He requires you to do it which is why He gave us volition to begin with.

Faith is the result of salvation, believing is something we must do, not only in regard to the Gospel but throughout our walk with the Lord. The power in His word is what transforms our believing into faith and why it must be tested to see if what we say "I believe" is indeed in the truth of the Word for only from the word can faith come.

One can only have as much faith as they have truth. You can say you believe something to the cows come home and you might be utterly dinkum about it, but if what you believe is not true or if you only think you believe it but testing shows you to be lacking, you will not have faith.

So you can believe one must be born again before they can believe, but if it is not true, you do not have faith and without faith, you cannot please God. :)
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Rogerg is correct, what you posted is not true, you just have a difficult time when it comes to being corrected by another.
Please look at Eph 2:8-9, which tells us:

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Even AI gets it - In the Bible, "grace" refers to God's unmerited, undeserved favor.

So when you look at Eph 2:8-9 it is actually saying:

For by undeserved/unmerited favor you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Look back at your post. The entire post reeks with the work of man in an attempt to say that grace alone is not enough, it also needs mans work!
 

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rogerg said:
Your reply was not so complex or spiritually sophisticated that I was not able to easily understand it, but very arrogant of you to the extreme to make that incorrect assumption about me. What your reply actually demonstrated, however, was that you have absolutely no idea about belief, faith, nor biblically, of how either is obtained. That's why I included the verses I did but which you obviously were completely unable to process. You would do yourself a big favor to go back, read them again closely, and try to understand them this time if possible.
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So faith doesn't come from the word or that is comes with salvation? That is what I said. Please argue against it for that is what you would need to do to disagree with me. :rolleyes:
 
Rufus said:
How did one give the old to the new?

And you haven't answered my question about Gentile believers in his this NC economy: How are any Gentile saved since God never made any covenant with the Gentile nations?
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God made an open door policy where both Jew and Gentile can be saved.

The old was remembered and the Blood of Jesus was retroactive going back to Adam.
 
If God had us take lie detector tests so we could see the effects and results I wonder who would be guilty of posting personal beliefs, man made doctrine, or actually proper interpretation of scripture?
 
rogerg said:
No. I recognized its presence within me, and that it was already given me. But my choices and actions had absolutely nothing to do with receiving it - I was but a recipient - all of the glory goes to God alone, none to me.
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Glory to God? For what???

Sounds good to say it.
But, chucks out the need to think and reason for an answer.
 
sawdust said:
So faith doesn't come from the word or that is comes with salvation? That is what I said. Please argue against it for that is what you would need to do to disagree with me. :rolleyes:
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No, you didn't say that belief comes with salvation. You said it is by man's work. I said it comes from salvation as its byproduct or result. Through salvation we believe the gospel and that Christ alone is Savior, we cannot do so by man's intellect.

Here, this is what you said:

'It is the Lord Himself who said believe in His Son so "believing" is meant to be a work of man but that is not what saves you nor does it produce faith in and of itself. God isn't believing on your behalf, He requires you to do it which is why He gave us volition to begin" with.
 
BillyBob said:
Rogerg is correct, what you posted is not true, you just have a difficult time when it comes to being corrected by another.
Please look at Eph 2:8-9, which tells us:

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Even AI gets it - In the Bible, "grace" refers to God's unmerited, undeserved favor.

So when you look at Eph 2:8-9 it is actually saying:

For by undeserved/unmerited favor you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Look back at your post. The entire post reeks with the work of man in an attempt to say that grace alone is not enough, it also needs mans work!
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At no time have I said faith is not a gift.

Our believing is an act of our will, it is what we are called to do. Faith is a gift from God that is enabled by the word of God. To have faith is to have real power. Our believing achieves nothing. You can believe all manner of things and it will not change reality one iota!

It is through faith grace works salvation, not our will to believe.

It is not a question of needing man's work. It is a matter of what God is looking for. You believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. God gave His Son so whoever believes. It is the Lord GOD who tells you to believe. He promised to save believers and when we believe and are saved, it is the Lord GOD who is keeping His promise, not some indebtedness to man's work or some needful component.

If God had not promised to save believers, you could believe every spiritual, moral and righteous truth there is and you would still be unsaved and remain dead in your sin.

I'm not repeating this anymore. I have gone through it so many times already.

I know you don't understand what I'm saying because I constantly have to correct what you think I'm saying.
 
Is it really that the unwillers' interpretation of freewill that free willers think that they can impose their own will on the Lord?
 
rogerg said:
No, you didn't say that belief comes with salvation. You said it is by man's work. I said it comes from salvation as its byproduct or result. Through salvation we believe the gospel and that Christ alone is Savior, we cannot do so by man's intellect.

Here, this is what you said:

'It is the Lord Himself who said believe in His Son so "believing" is meant to be a work of man but that is not what saves you nor does it produce faith in and of itself. God isn't believing on your behalf, He requires you to do it which is why He gave us volition to begin with.
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You said faith comes with salvation and I agreed.

sawdust said:
Faith is the result of salvation
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You can't see that I separate believing which is a work of man's will from faith which is a work of God.

If what we believe was saving faith, it would not need to be tested, it would be perfect. It's our believing that needs testing to see if we truly are in The Faith.

rogerg said:
Your reply was not so complex or spiritually sophisticated
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True, and yet I still had to correct your misunderstanding.
 
Mem said:
Is it really that the unwillers' interpretation of freewill that free willers think that they can impose their own will on the Lord?
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I'm sure the term 'unwillers' isn't an acceptable nomenclature to use in lieu of a better reference in light of the many protests in being called Calvinists. But then, 'imposers,' wouldn't be any better as this is how I understand the idea that, rather than man imposing his will on God, but it is God, in His sovereignty, that imposes His will on man. However, as long as 'free willers' keeps being used as a derogative, I'm going to feel free to use the term 'imposers' because it seems to fit nicely.
 
sawdust said:
And you wonder why I say things like "don't think beyond your nose".

What of all the beliefs that are in error, they from God too?

:rolleyes:
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Any belief that isn't of the gospel isn't from God and therefore in error. Only the belief and faith that He gives aren't.
The distinction you try to force between belief and faith is incorrect. One does not come without the other; one comes from the other.
 
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