Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

And Jesus's answer to them was that there was nothing they could do - that it is only God who can do so - Only God gives belief.
A spiritually dead person, which everyone is before becoming saved, of themselves, cannot believe - first they must be given
spiritual life by God.

He said this is the work: believe on the son of God. God doesn't give belief; he enables a person to believe. I believed in God when I was anti-Christian. The voice I was following then is the voice that opened my heart to believe that Christ is the truth. The holy spirit leads and tutors people before they become saved. No one can learn of the father except through the spirit, and if people come to Christ after learning of the father, then that can only mean that they are taught of the spirit of God before being saved.

It is written in the prophets, And they will be all instructed of God. Every [one] then hearing from the father, and having learned, comes to me. John 6:45​

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

She knows the difference between selected and elected. She purposely writes as she does.
Selection is choosing from amongst a group. Election is choosing a group and then creating them.

Selection and election are the same thing

Election
G1589 ἐκλογή ekloge (ek-lo-ǰee') n.
(divine) selection (abstractly or concretely).

 

[lrs68]

And Jesus's answer to them was that there was nothing they could do - that it is only God who can do so - Only God gives belief.
A spiritually dead person, which everyone is before becoming saved, of themselves, cannot believe - first they must be given
spiritual life by God.

Actually Paul wrote that each person has been given a measure of Faith. It has nothing to do with salvation but how God made the human being.

Honestly, the lengths you will go out of your way to distort a verse from the Bible for your personal beliefs is baffling. You do realize liars are one of the first mentioned to not inherit Heaven?

 

[Cameron143]

Selection and election are the same thing

Election
G1589 ἐκλογή ekloge (ek-lo-ǰee') n.
(divine) selection (abstractly or concretely).

No they are not biblically. I explained the difference. When God chooses, He doesn't select from what is already in existence, but chooses and creates what He has chosen. When God chose Israel, they were not a people. He began with Abraham, and created a nation. When God chose us in Christ, He created us in Christ Jesus.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

I personally believe the holy spirit is with every human from the moment of birth witnessing to the truth. Some respond, most don't. God foreknew who would respond, thus the election. Those who respond, the spirit nutures and teaches about the father until such time that their hearts are opened to the truth of Christ, and people are persuaded that is the truth and believe.

 

[rogerg]

He said this is the work: believe on the son of God. God doesn't give belief; he enables a person to believe. I believed in God when I was anti-Christian. The voice I was following then is the voice that opened my heart to believe that Christ is the truth. The holy spirit leads and tutors people before they become saved. No one can learn of the father except through the spirit, and if people come to Christ after learning of the father, then that can only mean that they are taught of the spirit of God before being saved.

It is written in the prophets, And they will be all instructed of God. Every [one] then hearing from the father, and having learned, comes to me. John 6:45​

Salvation comes first, everything else relating to salvations follows after or with it - salvation is cause the rest result. If the "voice" led you to belief it was because you had already become saved but hadn't been manifested to you until then.
Your revamping of John 6:29 incorrect. It is actually "it is the work of God in order that ye believe".
It is God's work - He doesn't enable it, He gives.

[Phl 1:29 KJV] 29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

No they are not biblically. I explained the difference. When God chooses, He doesn't select from what is already in existence, but chooses and creates what He has chosen. When God chose Israel, they were not a people. He began with Abraham, and created a nation. When God chose us in Christ, He created us in Christ Jesus.

Manmade distinction without a difference. Election means selection. When you elect someone you select their name on a ballot

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Your revamping of John 6:29 incorrect. It is actually "it is the work of God in order that ye believe".
It is God's work - He doesn't enable it, He gives.

I know you like this interpretation based on how the Greek ἵνα is translated, but it doesn't make sense in the context. Which is, the people asked what is the work that they could do and Jesus responded by saying this is God's work for you to do.

 

[rogerg]

Actually Paul wrote that each person has been given a measure of Faith. It has nothing to do with salvation but how God made the human being.

Honestly, the lengths you will go out of your way to distort a verse from the Bible for your personal beliefs is baffling. You do realize liars are one of the first mentioned to not inherit Heaven?

It is you who is distorting. And it is not a measure of faith, it is THE measure of faith - the ability to measure faith, namely, to be able to measure and realize that Christ's faith demonstrated His allegiance to the Father, which brought salvation to fruition.

 

[lrs68]

It is you who is distorting. And it is not a measure of faith, it is THE measure of faith - the ability to measure faith, namely, to be able to measure and realize that Christ's faith demonstrated His allegiance to the Father, which brought salvation to fruition.

That is nowhere how Paul wrote it. So why would you add a make belief definition to something Paul via the Holy Ghost never said?

 

[rogerg]

I know you like this interpretation based on how the Greek ἵνα is translated, but it doesn't make sense in the context. Which is, the people asked what is the work that they could do and Jesus responded by saying this is God's work for you to do.

It does make sense. Jesus's answer to them was there was nothing they could do. Jesus spoke that way often.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

It is you who is distorting. And it is not a measure of faith, it is THE measure of faith - the ability to measure faith, namely, to be able to measure and realize that Christ's faith demonstrated His allegiance to the Father, which brought salvation to fruition.

I don't know why you insist on THE measure of faith when there is no THE in the Greek. It simply says A measure of faith

 

[Cameron143]

Manmade distinction without a difference. Election means selection. When you elect someone you select their name on a ballot

But that's not what God did. That may be how we vote, but it isn't how God chooses. You can accept what I shared or not.

 

[rogerg]

That is nowhere how Paul wrote it. So why would you add a make belief definition to something Paul via the Holy Ghost never said?

Measure (metron):

1. measure, an instrument for measuring
   1. a vessel for receiving and determining the quantity of things, whether dry or liquid
   2. a graduated staff for measuring, a measuring rod
   3. proverbially, the rule or standard of judgment
2. determined extent, portion measured off, measure or limit
   1. the required measure, the due, fit, measure

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

It does make sense. Jesus's answer to them was there was nothing they could do. Jesus spoke that way often.

No, he didn't really say that, but if you believe in total inability then I can see how you think that.

 

[rogerg]

I don't know why you insist on THE measure of faith when there is no THE in the Greek. It simply says A measure of faith

Your translation says that, the KJV uses "the". Here is the actual Greek word:

metron

1. measure, an instrument for measuring
   1. a vessel for receiving and determining the quantity of things, whether dry or liquid
   2. a graduated staff for measuring, a measuring rod
   3. proverbially, the rule or standard of judgment
2. determined extent, portion measured off, measure or limit
   1. the required measure, the due, fit, measure

 

[reneweddaybyday]

A spiritually dead person, which everyone is before becoming saved, of themselves, cannot believe - first they must be given
spiritual life by God.

God's Word is life ...

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

quick and powerful means that the Word of God is living and active.

natural man does not always reject God's Word when he or she hears it and when God's Word is not rejected, God gives increase to the hearer.
.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

But that's not what God did. That may be how we vote, but it isn't how God chooses. You can accept what I shared or not.

I don't accept it. God foreknew who would believe, thus he chose them

 

[rogerg]

No, he didn't really say that, but if you believe in total inability then I can see how you think that.

Christ did say that, honestly.

 

[rogerg]

I don't accept it. God foreknew who would believe, thus he chose them

It wasn't that He knew who would believe because no one of themselves will/can believe. Instead to His chosen people - those He chose before the foundation of the world - those He gives faith and belief to.