Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Rufus]

Lol. Prove it genius.

Exo 19:5
Now therefore, ***if*** ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, ***then*** ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:

Exo 19:7
And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the LORD commanded him.

Exo 19:8
And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.

What part of Law of Moses, which was a conditional covenant, don't you get?

And Ex 19:8 betrays the self-deceived nature of the people's hearts. Tell me: How did that all work out for Israel under the Old Covenant in which they boasted they would obey ALL "that the Lord has spoken"?

 

[Jordon]

To many false idols on looses here and some people have wondered from the truth as a result.

Gods sovereignty needs the understanding of his authority first before anything.

That means he even has the authority over all creation. That's means he even had authority over the unsaved person to, it's just upto them what they do when his authority pricks there conscience

 

[cv5]

How is it you are always wrong?
I have heard of him and no one has ever said man doesn't have volition.

"Heard of" but not "hear".

Which of course confers upon me with great advantage, both in the hearing and the knowing.

 

[Genez]

There is not a single command by God that man is able to keep. Does God ask us to do the impossible? YES! That is precisely why we must be saved, because we are unable to obey His commands! Once we are saved we begin to obey, though not perfectly. . . .

"But I say, habitually walk by the Spirit and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh." Gal 5:16​

Until you find the means to be constantly growing in grace and truth you will always be failing.
Frustration leads to a false sense of conviction via dogmatism to feel like one is stabilized.

Only one solution is to be had.

Be growing in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. ​

To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen. 2 Pet 3:18​

Seek and find a good pastor-teacher!
Stop seeking simply for others to agree with you who do not yet know the truth needed.

grace and peace ....

 

[BillyBob]

And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do.

And were they faithful to their word? If so, why were they not permitted to enter the land?

 

[Jordon]

It so simple to understand that a unsaved is not going to change unless they take notice of a pricked conscience

These things are easy to understand, that a pricked conscience will enable some people to changed but form some it won't

So even a pricked conscience is still enabling grace.
But for those who don't change a pricked conscience will eventually destroy them

 

[cv5]

And were they faithful to their word? If so, why were they not permitted to enter the land?

So you tell me what happened. God got stingy with the grace and killed a slew of them?
Your problem is that your "its all grace" preposterous infantile catchall theory fails the litmus test every single time.

What's the next excuse from you? God stuffed cyborg implants and brain-chips into them but most failed?

 

[Cameron143]

"Heard of" but not "hear".

Which of course confers upon me with great advantage, both in the hearing and the knowing.

Are you still in kindergarten?
There are lots of preachers I haven't heard. Some I have. Perhaps you should listen to Martyn Lloyd Jones.

 

[BillyBob]

My sheep hear and they follow,
But what is the voice that they hear
Is it a voice crying out from the wilderness, or is it his ways they here that our instilled in there faith, instilled with the fruits of the holy spirit,

So here we see that believers are blessed with the fruits of the spirit and one in particular self control, I wonder why that wasn't given before they became saved,

Or is it in some fashion, like perhaps enabling grace, so as the message comes to you whilst your waiting for your heart to go bloom, within the message for you there is willpower, that enables you to overcome any inner selfishness. Which then give the ability to believe.

I mean this is surely how it is for a saved person,. when the fruits of willpower shine in our hearts we hear that way of the lord. And we do whatever needs to be done.

People who are saved still fail the test to obey. In Luke 12:29 we are told to not be anxious! Yet, who can tell me that they have not been anxious. We are being sanctified, but we have not been perfected.

 

[cv5]

People who are saved still fail the test to obey. In Luke 12:29 we are told to not be anxious! Yet, who can tell me that they have not been anxious. We are being sanctified, but we have not been perfected.

Because humans posses a will and volition of their own and act upon it.
And there goes the "grace controls all things" mantra right down the tubes.

 

[BillyBob]

What's the next excuse from you? God stuffed cyborg implants and brain-chips into them but most failed?

That maybe explains what happened to you, but He had mercy on me.

 

[Jordon]

People who are saved still fail the test to obey. In Luke 12:29 we are told to not be anxious! Yet, who can tell me that they have not been anxious. We are being sanctified, but we have not been perfected.

Yep well I think it's starts with the pricked conscience I've seen it time and time again.

And a church father who I once knew in my gardening days, he did 15 years of confessions, he always talked about it.

So perhaps the pricked conscience is enabling grace.
And if your conscience convicts for the saved but condemns for the unsaved , it shows that God is greater than your conscience.

He would know when someone was condemned by there conscience and some where convicted.

 

[Jordon]

The ones who where genuinely convicted would seek forgiveness and he could tell they where genuine,.but then there where many who had someone else to blame for what they seeking forgiveness for

 

[cv5]

That maybe explains what happened to you, but He had mercy on me.

You meant of course that you recieved fully functional "graciously provided cyborg implants and brain chips" overriding your will and volition? An upgraded suite of control features that the miserable failing Israelites missed out on?

Because determinists ADMIT over and over again, as canon, as irrefutable doctrine, as the prime directive, that they CANNOT EVER be obedient any other way, as their depraved natural man state suffers from total inability.

So its kidnapping (before existence with no consent informed or otherwise), lobotomies to remove individual volition, and brain chips to exert the necessary control.

 

[Jordon]

Father joe we called him lol, every afternoon he would share his lunch with me, he talked about the hardened conscience, is also a type of enabling grace. But he said it's not a safe place to be in with someone like this, and you have be very careful what you say to them, even when there blaming somebody else, you have to have sympathy for them, because there heads can explode.

But the wheat and the tares he would call them. He would go into more detail about that, but my memory is it bit faint of all he said to me.

But I think he's spot on,
That simply put, condemned conscience or convicted conscience are both enabling grace.

 

[Jordon]

It's coming back to now he said with the right words, sometime the person's convicted with a condemned conscience would sometime come back with a convicted conscience

 

[reneweddaybyday]

yes I say theese things. I say that any of God's word is alive, but those alive for for one person are not as as alive for another person.

As a person can have a bigger accumulation of words they have considered alive.

yes ... the more we study God's Word, the more of God's Word we have which we can rely on. The first part of Hosea 4:6 tells us My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge ... this is not referring to a lack of knowledge of man's wisdom ... it's referring to a lack of knowledge of God's Word.

And the accumulation can disaplin.

It's all about disaplin toe, like this morning I couldn't motivate myself to put up with shambles. briefly for moment I did but then I had to disaplin myself to putting up with shambles.

Disaplin is how I'm wired, I'm not wired by motivation

right ... discipline is not a bad word ... God's discipline is beneficial to us ... God's discipline yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby (Heb 12:11).
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[reneweddaybyday]

it would be odd if someone who wouldn't, is getting a crown

Revelation 4:10-11 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying, Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

this was the verse I had in mind when I submitted my prior post ... please excuse me for not clarifying that "all" refers to all who receive crowns will cast their crowns at His feet. Thank you.
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[reneweddaybyday]

Another master at eisegesis! You and CV5 should corroborate and come up with your own bible translation: You could call it the Golden Eisegesis Translation (or GET for short).

Here's how the text really reads:

Rom 1:18-23
18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against ALL the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities — his eternal power and divine nature — have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
NIV

Virtually the entire world consists of fools, which explains all the idolatry that existed before Paul penned what he did, during his time and still long after his departure.

So...mercy is indeed "deterministic", since God has determined in eternity to give mercy to only those who fear him! See my 16,447. God most assuredly does not indiscriminately dispense with his mercy or his grace or his love, for that matter! He never has and He never will!

quit detaching Rom 1:16-17 from Rom 1:18ff ...

Here's how the text really reads:

Romans 1:16-19 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

Those who believe receive the blessing.

Those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness receive the consequence.
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[reneweddaybyday]

FTFM!

FTFY!

so interesting that you claim to be humble yet have the audacity to re-write Scripture in your futile effort to "fix" it.

Numbers 32:12 none except Caleb the son of Jephunneh the Kenizzite and Joshua the son of Nun, for they have wholly followed the LORD.’

just read what the Author of Scripture wrote and quit manipulating the text, oh so humble one.
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