Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[reneweddaybyday]

for the zzz-er

1 Thessalonians 5:5-8 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
.

 

[cv5]

Wasn't it he who said that God created man to give him a certain degree of autonomy (sovereignty)? So...since that's the case and Satan is also a free moral agent, then maybe Satan is really the power behind the curtain. The Fall was planned by the evil one and perfectly implemented. Mission Accomplished!

Since Adam was very likely the Serpent's seed (according to the preponderance of biblical evidence), I'm waiting for CV5 to elevate the evil one to the superhero level of Adam.

Crazy talk.....

Rom 5:14
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.

 

[Genez]

Since Adam was very likely the Serpent's seed (according to the preponderance of biblical evidence), I'm waiting for CV5 to elevate the evil one to the superhero level of Adam.

Such "preponderance?" And no chapters and verses to show?

 

[studier]

Not only that but our aspiring bible scholar got the the whole faith-obedience thing backwards! Why am I not surprised? Studier essentially said (to paraphrase) that there's no faith without obedience. That's interesting. Yet, Hebrews doesn't tell us that without obedience it's impossible to please God. But it does teach that without faith it's impossible to please Him (Heb 11:6).

But there's even more. Hebrews also teaches that the disobedient Hebrews were not able to enter God's rest (the Land) ultimately because of their lack of faith (Heb 3:19-4:2).

These FWers can't even get the fundamentals of the Christian Faith right, let alone Studier's so-called "advanced spiritual truth".

At this point it seems way past appropriate to ask why you so consistently misguide us from the Truth of Scripture.

By not posting Heb3:18 you've negated one of the clearest sections of Scripture that logically and lexically parallel faith and obedience.

18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. (Heb. 3:18-19 NKJ)

That's parallelism Rufus. Unbelief and disobedience are being paralleled because they are so intertwined as to be used synonymously in Scripture. Lexically and logically then, faith is parallel to obedience. Since this is established in Hebrews there's no way to say this parallelism doesn't exist throughout the document. Are you prepared to say that faith is not necessary for salvation because Heb5:9 says salvation is for those who obey Jesus Christ?

Paul does the same thing with parallelism in Romans:

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?" (Rom. 10:16 NKJ)

Paul also treats faith and obedience the same way in Rom1:5 and Rom16:26 with the phrase obedience [of] faith which can be legitimately translated in a few ways that also make faith and obedience essentially synonymous. Based upon Rom10, Heb3, and some other Scriptural reasoning, I and others see this parallelism in these two verses in Romans. So, the translation is essentially faith-obedience.

There is more reasoning to substantiate this.

The simple fact is that you're playing games with Scripture for some reason. Not good at all.

 

[studier]

This has been a great thread to pad my ignore list. Very mean spirited.

I see the Benjamin Button effect is still active!

 

[Magenta]

The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God. Romans 8 v 6-8 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words. The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. 1 Corinthians 2 v 13-14

 

[Genez]

At this point it seems way past appropriate to ask why you so consistently misguide us from the Truth of Scripture.

By not posting Heb3:18 you've negated one of the clearest sections of Scripture that logically and lexically parallel faith and obedience.

18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. (Heb. 3:18-19 NKJ)

That's parallelism Rufus. Unbelief and disobedience are being paralleled because they are so intertwined as to be used synonymously in Scripture. Lexically and logically then, faith is parallel to obedience. Since this is established in Hebrews there's no way to say this parallelism doesn't exist throughout the document. Are you prepared to say that faith is not necessary for salvation because Heb5:9 says salvation is for those who obey Jesus Christ?

Paul does the same thing with parallelism in Romans:

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?" (Rom. 10:16 NKJ)

Paul also treats faith and obedience the same way in Rom1:5 and Rom16:26 with the phrase obedience [of] faith which can be legitimately translated in a few ways that also make faith and obedience essentially synonymous. Based upon Rom10, Heb3, and some other Scriptural reasoning, I and others see this parallelism in these two verses in Romans. So, the translation is essentially faith-obedience.

There is more reasoning to substantiate this.

The simple fact is that you're playing games with Scripture for some reason. Not good at all.

Being reasonable with the highly unreasonable....
Makes the one wishing to be reasonable, after he keeps trying, to look like he is not being reasonable for trying.

 

[Jordon]

I was replying to Magenta's nonsense ... I showed her that Jordon asked

"your talking about the free will of the flesh"​

you replied to Jordon:

"There is no such thing as "free will of the flesh"."​

Magenta in her carnal reply to you:

​

I merely pointed out to Magenta that she does the same thing with Scripture.
.

but is there free will of the flesh tho ?

It my be the answer to our prayers lol

 

[studier]

Being reasonable with the highly unreasonable....
Makes the one wishing to be reasonable, after he keeps trying, to look like he is not being reasonable for trying.

Understood. Prov26:4-5 - highlighting Prov26:5. Seems to cause meltdown.

 

[Magenta]

Understood. Prov26:4-5 - highlighting Prov26:5. Seems to cause meltdown.

Proverbs 26 v 4-5 Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you yourself will be like him. 5Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he become wise in his own eyes.

 

[posthuman]

I don't know what you mean? Do you think our bodies make decisions or do you think it behaves autonomously? Do you will your body to digest food or your brain to function? Even breathing, while we can hold it for short periods of time by sheer force of will, it will override our volition and force us to breathe again.

there's experimental evidence that we make certain decisions in our subconscious before our conscious mind is aware of them, and then backwards-justify them consciously. we also clearly inadvertently physically react to things, sometimes contrary to our own conscious will.

but its also true that we wrestle in our minds over other decisions for sometimes quite a long time, making them only after much thinking.

 

[Magenta]

The simple fact is that you're playing games with Scripture for some reason. Not good at all.

plank

 

[Magenta]

there's experimental evidence that we make certain decisions in our subconscious before our conscious mind is aware of them, and then backwards-justify them consciously. we also clearly inadvertently physically react to things, sometimes contrary to our own conscious will.

but its also true that we wrestle in our minds over other decisions for sometimes quite a long time, making them only after much thinking.

Some here seem to think that after being convinced of something they then get to decide if they believe it or not,
whereas any logical person could easily deduce that being convinced of something means you already believe...

 

[posthuman]

Honestly, one cannot go beyond the starting line with the reformed/calvies/tulip folks. Their doctrine is skewed from the get go. Skewed from the foundation.

If the very foundation is incorrect, every doctrine after that is incorrect.

The Lord Jesus Christ died for ALL. We get that wrong.......everything else will be wrong.




Just imagine, this is evil according to reformed/calvie/tulip theory.......

Recognize that you are a sinner. Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. That goes for you and everyone else. ALL.

John 6:64​

Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe​

​

therefore He died for all, and bore the sins of many, as the scriptures say - - for as the also say, the condemnation is that He came into the world but men loved darkness rather than light.

many is a subset of all, not equal to all. and He Who created us knows every heart from the beginning.

 

[posthuman]

Some here seem to think that after being convinced of something they then get to decide if they believe it or not,
whereas any logical person could easily deduce that being convinced of something means you already believe...

i am not currently deciding whether i read your post or not.

i am convinced i did; i became convinced while the very act was happening - - and there is no free will decisión to be made in my part whether that's the truth or not. it is simply the truth.

 

[cv5]

At this point it seems way past appropriate to ask why you so consistently misguide us from the Truth of Scripture.

By not posting Heb3:18 you've negated one of the clearest sections of Scripture that logically and lexically parallel faith and obedience.

18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. (Heb. 3:18-19 NKJ)

That's parallelism Rufus. Unbelief and disobedience are being paralleled because they are so intertwined as to be used synonymously in Scripture. Lexically and logically then, faith is parallel to obedience. Since this is established in Hebrews there's no way to say this parallelism doesn't exist throughout the document. Are you prepared to say that faith is not necessary for salvation because Heb5:9 says salvation is for those who obey Jesus Christ?

Paul does the same thing with parallelism in Romans:

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?" (Rom. 10:16 NKJ)

Paul also treats faith and obedience the same way in Rom1:5 and Rom16:26 with the phrase obedience [of] faith which can be legitimately translated in a few ways that also make faith and obedience essentially synonymous. Based upon Rom10, Heb3, and some other Scriptural reasoning, I and others see this parallelism in these two verses in Romans. So, the translation is essentially faith-obedience.

There is more reasoning to substantiate this.

The simple fact is that you're playing games with Scripture for some reason. Not good at all.

Everybody wants a dog that is faithful and obedient.
And what happens to dogs that aren't faithful and obedient?
Many times off to the animal shelter and put down.

And Rufus is confused about this?
Next question: How does Rufus fit into this scenario?
I mean the namesake itself is compelling is it not?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

for the zzz-er

1 Thessalonians 5:5-8 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

reply to laugh-er ... zzz
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

but is there free will of the flesh tho ?

in those who are born again, the flesh is to be brought under submission to Holy Spirit within ...

Galatians 5:

16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

...

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.


the word "temperance" means self control. The carnal believer has the ability within to bring his or her flesh under control of the Spirit ... however, if the believer is drawn away from being led by the Spirit through the lusts of the flesh, he or she may fail in bringing his or her flesh under submission.

It my be the answer to our prayers lol

1 Thessalonians 5:21-23 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Abstain from all appearance of evil. And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
.

 

[Magenta]

i am not currently deciding whether i read your post or not.

i am convinced i did; i became convinced while the very act was happening - - and there is no free will decisión to be made in my part whether that's the truth or not. it is simply the truth.

I think of you every time I post that last Proverbs panel because of the feedback/suggestion for
improvement you gave me for it... not that I post it a lot, actually, but recently a bit more often than
usual, because there is just so much nonsense served up by the FW crowd with all their rewriting Scripture
to suit their FW idol when they are not busy contradicting and denying what Scripture plainly says...

 

[cv5]

Some here seem to think that after being convinced of something they then get to decide if they believe it or not,
whereas any logical person could easily deduce that being convinced of something means you already believe...

No. After being convinced of something, some then decide to play a game of truth or consequences. And some don't. One is foolish and one is wise. One is proud and one is humble.