Jacob didn't achieve it even as much as he wanted it, but he did obtain it by God's mercy, as he trusting in that or he would have let go before his hip was knocked out.
Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
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Jacob didn't achieve it even as much as he wanted it, but he did obtain it by God's mercy, as he trusting in that or he would have let go before his hip was knocked out.
Disagree Christ died for only believers. Death and Hades are empty when thrown into the lake of fire. The Cross is justification for all men to be raised up from the dead, some to everlasting life, some to everlasting contempt.
Death (spiritual and physical) is the wages of sin, the lake of fire is the wages of rejecting the Christ.
We're aware that's what you say I believe. It is not what I believe. I believe regeneration and the giving of a new nature come before belief, and that this changes an individual from being carnal and natural into one who is spiritual and able to be subject to the commands of God.
It's concerning because that particular thought school effectively negates the necessity of the only offering of our possession that would be pleasing to God, the offering of faith of which he acknowledges even an amount the size of a mustard seed.I agree. Unfortunately reformed theology says God has to save you first so you can believe. They will deny being made alive (regenerated) is being saved but who can understand the nonsense of that.
I agree it isn't random. This has been my point all along. They are elected; not selected.
The difference, as I understand it, is that you believe the carnal man is subject to the law of God and I do not. So I believe he must be converted to being a spiritual man before he will respond affirmatively the gospel message.
30 Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved, thou and thy house.
The Apostles taught what Jesus taught that you must first BELIEVE and then you will be SAVED.
So the correct order is
1. BELIEVE
2. then will be SAVED
Non-responsive. You claimed reformed doctrine teaches something it does not. Why do you lie?That's because I don't follow reformed teaching. It has too many errors.
No, not as you think it. We are created in the image and likeness of God. That created virtue gives us semi independence/autonomy/sovereignty as well as semi transcendence and freedom. We are a most wonderful creation. It is no wonder God loved the world He created so much that He was willing to go to the extreme lengths He did to save it. It is only a pity there are some who will never see that salvation, not because God did not choose them, but because they rejected God when he made Himself known to them. That is the price of freedom and autonomy even in it's limitations.
It's not supposed to make sense. Quite the contrary.It seems to me the Reformed position has a double election. First He elects to saves us then He chooses to Elect us. <need head scratching emoji>
Yes but let’s actually read what Paul’s teaching there
“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin:
but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death,
or of obedience unto righteousness?
But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.”
Romans 6:3-7, 11-18 KJV
Really a good teaching by Paul explaining how it’s time for us to choose to serve God rather than sin now that Jesus has died for our sins and we were baptized in his name for remission of those sins .
Time to start choosing righteousness unto life rather than sin unto death , I agree brother that’s a good section of the letter to the Roman’s church
“Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die:
but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”
Romans 8:12-13 KJV
Paul really hammers it home throughout the letter
I know that, I have even stated that is what it means in our discussion when we speak of foreknowledge, have you forgotten already or didn't care to listen in the first place? So I have no idea what I said you think is wrong. Does Reformed theology not teach God sovereignly chooses who to save without any thought to the particulars of the person in question? That was the issue I was addressing in my post. Cameron seems to think there is something particular about them.
btw. you stuffed up the quoting mechanism again but I forgive you and FIFY.
You seem to be wrong. In fact, you once again misrepresent reformed doctrine. Why must you continue to lie?It seems to me the Reformed position has a double election. First He elects to saves us then He chooses to Elect us. <need head scratching emoji>
Reformed theology doesn't say that. More lies.I agree. Unfortunately reformed theology says God has to save you first so you can believe. They will deny being made alive (regenerated) is being saved but who can understand the nonsense of that.
It is well documented that Scripture explicitly articulates the opposite of what FWers promote.
I know that is what you believe Cameron and that is exactly what I said. You have to be saved in order to believe. It is impossible for you to believe without being saved first. Not sure what more salvation you want if regeneration and a new nature isn't enough salvation for you.
It's the horse before the cart.
Acts 16:31
So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
No, I have never said the carnal man is subject to God's law. I have repeatedly stated he needs God's grace (which is real power at work) to overcome the flesh. How do you think you can walk as a Christian apart from God's grace to overcome the sin nature within? That nature has not gone anywhere, it still resides in the flesh but somehow you think God can't do that unless He first saves you. Powerful enough to do all that is required in salvation but not powerful enough to free you long enough to give you opportunity to respond from your own soul of your own volition. You do God no justice by such thinking.
The Gospel is the power unto salvation. You have a man saved in order to be saved. You just can't or won't see it.
