Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[cv5]

Isn't it interesting that the majority of reformed/calvie/tulip folks TRY to sound like freewillers on the surface?........As if they know the truth, but suppress it?

Very few, preach their straight-up determinist views. They shroud it with a counterfeit of freewill.

Yes. I double-dog dare ANY determinist to step right up, get out on the street corner, and OPENLY preach their brand of patently unbiblical nonsense.

They wouldn't DARE expose themselves to the light of scrutiny.
And what does Christ say about not coming into the light?

Jhn 3:20
For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Jhn 3:21
But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

1Co 4:5
Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

 

[Jordon]

Not Cam.

Someone here fits the bill though.
Not manifesting grace...

though ?

This is a dangerous game your playing with grace.

Grace is core of his belief.

 

[Jordon]

not suppressing ... surpassing ... surpass means to go beyond ... to exceed ... the peace of God far exceeds our comprehension.

This peace surpasses all understanding ... we can't comprehend this peace ... when surrounded by care, anxiety, concern, we can still live with the serenity and peace of God in our soul. Can we understand this great promise? I believe we experience the peace of God yet do not understand exactly how God's peace works in us to guard our hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.





we can experience the peace of God even though the peace of God is beyond our understanding. We can have peace in the midst of turmoil ... peace in the midst of conflict ... peace in the midst of any situation we face in this life.

As far as comfort ... here's one of my favorite sections of Scripture concerning comfort:

2 Corinthians 1:3-4 Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort; Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.

God comforts us ... and we are able to comfort others with the same comfort God comforts us with. isn't that amazing ?! ... who doesn't need comfort in these times ? I thank God for the times I have been comforted by His faithful children ... I thank God for the times I am able to comfort others with the comfort God comforts me with ... God is so so good to us.
.

yep surpassing.

I personally believe your confusing that scripture with his supernatural understanding.

I'm asking if we can understand where being comforted.

I think your implying that one passage to mean his supernatural understanding.

Well take care, don't know your first name but take care sis.

 

[cv5]

Irresistible Grace is an undeserved gift that cannot be refused, since you never requested it to begin with, and you never saw it coming.
You simply cannot refuse/resist such a gift, because your participation was in no way required. How could you possibly refuse/resist it, when you were unaware that it was about to happen. No one that I know was ever asked by God, do you want this gift that I am about to give to you.

That is not a gift. That is being shanghaied and pressed into service. Potentially hazardous service.
But as we all know, for the determinist, there are no ***willing*** volunteers.......right?

"Shanghaiing or crimping is the practice of kidnapping people to serve as sailors by coercive techniques such as trickery, intimidation, or violence. Those engaged in this form of kidnapping were known as crimps. "

 

[Genez]

though ?

This is a dangerous game your playing with grace.

Grace is core of his belief.

Who's core belief?
I told you it was not Cam.

 

[Magenta]

Galatians 5 v 1; Romans 10 v 10a; Romans 6 v 17-18; Colossians 2 v 20 It was for freedom that Christ set us free. Therefore, stand firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery. With the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness. Though you used to be slaves to sin, you have been set free from sin and become slaves to righteousness. You have died with Christ to the spiritual forces of the world.

 

[Magenta]

John 3 verse 27~ “A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.” John 1 3 verses 12-13~ To all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God - children born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God. John 6 3 verse 44~ “No man can come to me except the Father, which hath sent me, draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.” Romans 9 3 verse 16~ So then, it does not depend on man’s desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. Romans 8 3 verse 16~ The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.

 

[Cameron143]

Do you believe HeIsHere is born again?

That was who you and Magenta were referring to when the comment was made "How would a FWer know? They don't understand the gospel message since it includes much they reject, deny, and contradict" ... which was heart hearted by you.





maybe the "rules" suggested by "some" are due to "some" who do not enjoy loving others more than themselves ... just sayin'





The commandments of God are not grievous ... big difference between the commandments of God and the "rules" of men.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
.

So...how can one say they love God whom they can't see if they don't love those they can see...1 John 4:20.

I don't know who is saved and who isn't. Insinuating that I'm making final judgments concerning people on the site is irresponsible.

So now if someone asks for some consideration because people have been deliberately misrepresenting what I post, that means I don't enjoy loving others. Consider who it is you are criticizing and who you are defending.

 

[Cameron143]

Grace is never rude and dominating....

I told you this earlier when you were being rude and dominating and you excused your behavior saying Jesus was this way towards the Pharisees and you were excused because of this. So why don't you apply the Pharisee exemption for others too?

 

[Magenta]

So...how can one say they love God whom they can't see if they don't love those they can see...1 John 4:20.

I don't know who is saved and who isn't. Insinuating that I'm making final judgments concerning people on the site is irresponsible.

So now if someone asks for some consideration because people have been deliberately misrepresenting what I post,
that means I don't enjoy loving others. Consider who it is you are criticizing and who you are defending.

They simply love to misrepresent.

I told you this earlier when you were being rude and dominating and you excused your behavior saying Jesus was this way
towards the Pharisees and you were excused because of this. So why don't you apply the Pharisee exemption for others too?

Because they have double standards.

 

[Cameron143]

Who is "they"? Nobody?
Because the determinists' soteriology strictly FORBIDS this supposedly outrageous transgression of willful belief.
In fact, the Reformed view is that God cannot possibly accept anyone's faith, belief, trust, or anything of the sort, as it is a man-exalting "work", the very act of which invalidates and nullifies any erstwhile salvific benefit.

No, but a totally uninformed, abrupt mind-wipe is compulsory (devoid of informed consent or even perception), this being THE absolute necessary prerequisite for Calvinist-type salvation. They SLIGHTEST effort in seeking, the MEREST whispered asking, the utterly useless beating of the chest and cries of repentance MUST be rejected by God at all times and in all circumstances, as God is insulted by the "natural man's" heinous efforts.

Because you willfully refuse to listen to what people say and deliberately misrepresent what people say, you begin your rant with a mistruth. Some people call that a lie. And all for what? You can't affect truth with lies, or anything else. No matter what you do, truth remains truth.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I personally believe your confusing that scripture with his supernatural understanding.

well you can take that up with God ... I just believe what is written ... the peace of God which surpasses all understanding.

I'm asking if we can understand where being comforted.

I have been in some pretty hairy situations and yet I was at peace in my heart and I knew it was God's peace.

and what this peace of God does even in the midst of turmoil is it guards our hearts and minds so that we do not become overwhelmed with whatever we are facing. As a result, we remain strong in faith and we do not falter in our steps. God will guide us through.
.

 

[Cameron143]

What did you not understand?.

I understood what you wrote. I have no way of knowing your motive. Since I was asked about your motive, I said I didn't know.

 

[cv5]

Because you willfully refuse to listen to what people say and deliberately misrepresent what people say, you begin your rant with a mistruth. Some people call that a lie. And all for what? You can't affect truth with lies, or anything else. No matter what you do, truth remains truth.

Despite your mewling complaints, the truth's that I submitted remain uncontested. Every last one of them.

But what's more is that you have already agreed they are in fact the basis of your Reformed religious dogma. Did you want me to repost your earlier assent and approval of same?

You would think that me simply reiterating your beliefs would not draw out such discomfiture and ire. But inexplicably they do....

 

[Jordon]

well you can take that up with God ... I just believe what is written ... the peace of God which surpasses all understanding.





I have been in some pretty hairy situations and yet I was at peace in my heart and I knew it was God's peace.

and what this peace of God does even in the midst of turmoil is it guards our hearts and minds so that we do not become overwhelmed with whatever we are facing. As a result, we remain strong in faith and we do not falter in our steps. God will gui.

de us through.
.

Well that's nice to know. all good that you knew, but you understood it was God giving you peace, yes or else how could you know. Sorry to hear you've had many hairy moments I'll try to remember when I write to you.

I forgot to mention earlier on that well i forgot actually my mistake.

I did mention last week here, that in the united Kingdom there are only churches that hold doctrines of grace are assigned to the reformation and church fathers including John Calvin.

Hence where we get the term Calvinism.. but who made up that term Calvinism ? Was it a mocker an unsound mind ?


So there is only churches that hold tulip beliefs, but calvinism is just a term, I don't even know who stated this term, but was it started as a mockery to our church fathers m, seeing as it's called an ism.

So do you think that why people find it offensive ?

But do people who use the term Calvinism have just cause to get offended about this, because when you think about it, it's not of sound mind to explode on someone with what appears to be a mockery of our church fathers, because they've decided they want to destroy your feelings with an ism, which could be a made up tern by the scoffers,

When you think about that some more, you realise they could be filled with evil intent.

Which then they make that agenda your agenda.


But on a positive note the doctrine of grace is central to most churches, does it matter if it's called tulip.

 

[cv5]

Isn't it interesting that the majority of reformed/calvie/tulip folks TRY to sound like freewillers on the surface?........As if they know the truth, but suppress it?

Very few, preach their straight-up determinist views. They shroud it with a counterfeit of freewill.

"As if they know the truth, but suppress it?"

The Geico caveman agrees.....

 

[Kroogz]

You would think that me simply reiterating your beliefs would not draw out such discomfiture and ire. But inexplicably they do....

Repeat........
Kroogz said:
Isn't it interesting that the majority of reformed/calvie/tulip folks TRY to sound like freewillers on the surface?........As if they know the truth, but suppress it?

Very few, preach their straight-up determinist views. They shroud it with a counterfeit of freewill.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

So...how can one say they love God whom they can't see if they don't love those they can see...1 John 4:20.

good verse ... I have no issue with this verse and/or the verses surrounding it.

1 John 4:19-21 We love him, because he first loved us. If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

Do you consider FWers as brothers and sisters?

I don't know who is saved and who isn't. Insinuating that I'm making final judgments concerning people on the site is irresponsible.

I am asking for clarification concerning a statement made by Magenta and which was heart hearted by you ... that is not insinuating anything ... it is asking for clarification so that I do not insinuate.

How would a FWer know? They don't understand the gospel message since it includes much they reject, deny, and contradict

The heart heart by you indicates you agreed with Magenta ... yet today you claimed "Don't know what @Magenta meant" ... something rotten's going on here (and not by me in asking for clarification).

It appears to me that what was said is that FWers are not born again because I do not believe anyone can be born again if they do not know what they believe.

So now if someone asks for some consideration because people have been deliberately misrepresenting what I post, that means I don't enjoy loving others. Consider who it is you are criticizing and who you are defending.

I am not criticizing or defending anyone ... I am merely asking for clarification.

If I misunderstood the meaning of the statement and the agreement by you, both you and Magenta can easily clear up my misunderstanding ... don't know if you will though.
.

 

[Cameron143]

Despite your mewling complaints, the truth's that I submitted remain uncontested. Every last one of them.

But what's more is that you have already agreed they are in fact the basis of your Reformed religious dogma. Did you want me to repost your earlier assent and approval of same?

You would think that me simply reiterating your beliefs would not draw out such discomfiture and ire. But inexplicably they do....

Yes, please show me where I've ever said God kidnaps individuals against their will? Or God employs a shotgun wedding? Or that God rapes people in order to accomplish His will? Please, I'd like to see it.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

They simply love to misrepresent.

rolleyes ... nobody is "misrepresenting", Magenta ... I am asking for clarification so there is no "misrepresentation" ... because I do not "simply love to misrepresent".

You stated:

How would a FWer know? They don't understand the gospel message since it includes much they reject, deny, and contradict​

It appears to me that what is being said is that FWers are not born again because I do not believe anyone can be born again if they do not know what they believe.

If I misunderstand the statement, you can easily clear up my misunderstanding ... but getting you and/or Cameron143 to clear up any misunderstanding on my part is like pulling teeth.

You and Cameron143 can easily clear up any misunderstanding on my part ... it remains to be seen whether you will ... something rotten's going on here (and not by me in asking for clarification).
.