to do or not to do

[TruthDefender]

You are *not* being plain. Where is this so-called "command" given beyond the command to the Apostles to baptize?

Would you agree that the apostles gave us an example of a pattern to live by? Baptism is a part of that pattern. The verses that I had already given specified to baptize. Idk, it’s a simple passage to read! All the verses on this topic are pretty basic!!

 

[randyk]

Would you agree that the apostles gave us an example of a pattern to live by? Baptism is a part of that pattern. The verses that I had already given specified to baptize. Idk, it’s a simple passage to read! All the verses on this topic are pretty basic!!

You still have not answered my question--apparently you will not?

To answer your question, not everything Jesus commanded his Apostles to do are things other Christians are commanded to do. For example, he commanded them to go two by two through the towns of Israel. None of us are commanded to do that.

 

[TruthDefender]

You still have not answered my question--apparently you will not?

To answer your question, not everything Jesus commanded his Apostles to do are things other Christians are commanded to do. For example, he commanded them to go two by two through the towns of Israel. None of us are commanded to do that.

I disagree, and you didn’t give a very good example. What I gave is part of the plan of salvation vs what you gave, which is like idk, washing hands before you eat.

This is pretty simple reading, even a child can understand:
“And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28‬:‭18‬-‭20‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[randyk]

I disagree, and you didn’t give a very good example. What I gave is part of the plan of salvation vs what you gave, which is like idk, washing hands before you eat.

This is pretty simple reading, even a child can understand:
“And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28‬:‭18‬-‭20‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

You can't even answer a simple question. Bye.

 

[p_rehbein]

On another forum I spoke to the issue of Imputation, and was asked if I just expect Christ to do everything for me, or do I actually "do something" to be a Christian? My answer:

Ephesians Chapter 2:

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

There is ZERO DOUBT that we are saved FOR A PURPOSE!

Anyone who says different is doing so against the teachings of Scripture. Do not listen to them.

OBEDIENCE! One must be obedient to the Commands of Jesus/God, and remain steadfast in their faith until the end.

John, Chapter 14:

15If ye love me, keep my commandments. Anyone who says different makes Jesus a liar.

2 Corinthians, Chapter 5:

2 Corinthians, Chapter 5:

10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

1 Corinthians, Chapter 3:

13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Revelation 20:12
And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.

1 Corinthians 3:8
Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor.

 

[TruthDefender]

You can't even answer a simple question. Bye.

Oh I answer many simple questions, but you don’t like the answers.

2 Corinthians
-But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.
4:3-4

 

[randyk]

Oh I answer many simple questions, but you don’t like the answers.

2 Corinthians
-But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.
4:3-4

That's dishonest. I asked you a single question repeatedly, and you *never* answered that question. How can I not like the answer when you don't even answer?

 

[TruthDefender]

Yes, a lot goes under the name "Christian" that is not truly Christian. I don't throw out the word--I just use it to call nominal Christians to account. If they are to use the name, I ask them not to use it "in vain."

Just like the Commandment, "Do not take the Lord's Name in vain, because He won't held such a one guiltless who improperly uses His Name." One who improperly calls himself or herself a "Christian" when Christ is not in them, and they are not living by him, are "taking the Lord's Name in vain."

Everyone will have to give account in the last Day….. Followers of Christ were first called Christians in Antioch; this name is beautiful and has great meaning!

“And when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. So it was that for a whole year they assembled with the church and taught a great many people. And the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭11‬:‭26‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[TruthDefender]

Yes, Water Baptism was the critical element in Jesus' time to show that one had left the old ways of Moses' Law, and its water cleansing, to devotion to an entirely New Covenant, water baptism merely symbolizing Spirit Baptism.

The Spirit Baptism into Jesus is what is essential, and that was accomplished not by the external ceremony of Water Baptism, which followed conversion, but rather, by confessing Jesus as Lord, and then following him spiritually in our lives. Spirit Baptism, therefore, is the "one Baptism" that unites us with God eternally and what unites us all as believers in Christ.

When we are externally baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Spirit, let us recognize that the external ceremony is not the important thing, but rather, the fact it represents our commitment to live before God and in the Son, and through the power of the Holy Spirit, who unites us with Christ.

Quite simply, if baptism was a part of the pattern and command in the 1st century we are to emulate them in the 21st century.
Nothing has changed!!

 

[homwardbound]

Ephesians Chapter 2:

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

There is ZERO DOUBT that we are saved FOR A PURPOSE!

Anyone who says different is doing so against the teachings of Scripture. Do not listen to them.

OBEDIENCE! One must be obedient to the Commands of Jesus/God, and remain steadfast in their faith until the end.

John, Chapter 14:

15If ye love me, keep my commandments. Anyone who says different makes Jesus a liar.

2 Corinthians, Chapter 5:

2 Corinthians, Chapter 5:

10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

1 Corinthians, Chapter 3:

13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Revelation 20:12
And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.

1 Corinthians 3:8
Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor.

Walk in the Faith given thee from Father in risen Son for thee
And that is not hard, to love all as God has done for us in Son first
John 13:34
Love overcomes, overcame evil and to this day still does. I am in process daily here on earth and am no better than anyone else ever to me at least, thank you Father

 

[TruthDefender]

Walk in the Faith given thee from Father in risen Son for thee
And that is not hard, to love all as God has done for us in Son first
John 13:34
Love overcomes, overcame evil and to this day still does. I am in process daily here on earth and am no better than anyone else ever to me at least, thank you Father

Jesus commanded:

John 3:5 (NKJV): 5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

"And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen."
Matthew 28:18-20 NKJV

 

[randyk]

Quite simply, if baptism was a part of the pattern and command in the 1st century we are to emulate them in the 21st century.
Nothing has changed!!

Who is saying (besides you) that we must carry out commands given exclusively to the Apostles? Are you emulating the Apostles' mission to go through the cities and villages of Palestine, proclaiming that Jesus (who is no longer with us) is the Messiah and about to bring deliverance to the nation Israel? Of course, to do so you'd have to wind time back to before Jesus went to the Cross.

 

[homwardbound]

Jesus commanded:

John 3:5 (NKJV): 5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

"And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen."
Matthew 28:18-20 NKJV

Love, 1 Cor 13"4-7 is the call to all, to respond d to God on risen Son for them to live new

Now see as you said, first born of water, is born of flesh as said in John 3:4-5
Was not known as Amniotic fluid back then. As even today when a woman is giving birth, her water broke firstThen comes out the baby

For nine months approximately the baby in a mother's womb is surrounded in water (Amniotic fluid). The Baby does not live in water, Amniotic fluid.
The Bay lives and eats and breathes, because Momma does all these things for the baby. Then the amniotic, water fluid breaks and the baby is born and breathes on its own. Then grows up to see things and learn things
As God love us all in risnen Son for us all. Where the new everlasting life in the soul is, thanks as we each continue to learn from God over the self and everyone else 1 John 2:27 Thanks you to Father and Sn as Won once for us all to be new in love and mercy to all too
John 13:34

 

[randyk]

Jesus commanded:

John 3:5 (NKJV): 5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

"And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen."
Matthew 28:18-20 NKJV

One is not "Born Again" via the waters of Baptism! A person gets Baptized *after* he is Saved!

To be "born of water" is simply to be born. To join this to a Baptism of the Spirit is to be Born Again.

 

[TruthDefender]

Who is saying (besides you) that we must carry out commands given exclusively to the Apostles? Are you emulating the Apostles' mission to go through the cities and villages of Palestine, proclaiming that Jesus (who is no longer with us) is the Messiah and about to bring deliverance to the nation Israel? Of course, to do so you'd have to wind time back to before Jesus went to the Cross.

Wow, what twisted thought! This is such a basic verse in Christianity.

 

[randyk]

Wow, what twisted thought! This is such a basic verse in Christianity.

It's so basic that you missed the point? We do not emulate commands that Jesus specifically gave to his Apostles! That is the point.

 

[randyk]

It's so basic that you missed the point? We do not emulate commands that Jesus specifically gave to his Apostles! That is the point.

It's so basic that you missed the point? We do not emulate commands that Jesus specifically gave to his Apostles! That is the point. Let me develop this a little further. We are told that the *Spirit* gives gifts as *He* wills.

1 Cor 12.7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[a] and to still another the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.
...29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret?

What this means is that directives God gave exclusively to His Apostles are *not* the same directives given to the whole Church such that we "emulate those directives.* We may learn from it, benefit from it, or supplement it, but we are not to do it unless we are Apostles and are specifically told what to do, or are told that all Apostles should do this.

This is indeed very basic. So why are you arguing with it? We are not all told to Baptize. If so, where are we told to do so?

John 4.2 although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples.

Here, it is said that Jesus did not baptize in this instance. And yet, we were told that he was the one coming to Baptize with the Spirit. It seems that Spirit Baptism is superior to Water Baptism. The Apostles baptized in water. But Jesus baptizes in the Spirit.

Acts 10.47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.”

Here, people received the Baptism of the Spirit *before* being Water Baptized. People could be Water Baptized in Jesus' Name without receiving the fulness of its spiritual meaning.

Acts 18.24 Meanwhile a Jew named Apollos, a native of Alexandria, came to Ephesus. He was a learned man, with a thorough knowledge of the Scriptures. 25 He had been instructed in the way of the Lord, and he spoke with great fervor[a] and taught about Jesus accurately, though he knew only the baptism of John. 26 He began to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they invited him to their home and explained to him the way of God more adequately.

Preaching the Gospel and Water Baptism are separate.

1 Cor 1.17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

As an Apostle Paul baptized people. But being baptized into somebody's name sometimes just meant identifying with a particular leader, as opposed to experiencing the unity of Christ. Paul deemphasized his ministry of Water Baptism in favor of Preaching the Gospel, which he distinguished from Water Baptism.

 

[TruthDefender]

It's so basic that you missed the point? We do not emulate commands that Jesus specifically gave to his Apostles! That is the point.

Nobody ever said that you emulate going out 2x2, this is a given! A rather ridiculous reply!

Jesus commanded:

John 3:5 (NKJV): 5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

"And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen."
Matthew 28:18-20 NKJV

 

[randyk]

Nobody ever said that you emulate going out 2x2, this is a given! A rather ridiculous reply!

And yet you say that because Jesus told his Apostle to baptize and to make disciples of all nations that all Christians must "emulate" this? You are inconsistent, and seem unable to follow the argument. What is "absurd" and "obvious" to you is betrayed by your lack of reason.

The simple and basic point is this. Unless all Christians are specifically told to do something, what others are told is not necessarily what we must do. There is no command in Scriptures that require all Christians to baptize. There is no command in Scriptures that all or any Christians must follow the Law, even though what God told Moses and Israel may be something we can morally and spiritually "emulate."

When you say we are required to "emulate" something you are implying that what was commanded the Apostles is also commanded all Christians. You have neither proved this nor proved what "emulating that" really means, ie whether it is something we are required to do or merely something we have the option of doing?

 

[TruthDefender]

And yet you say that because Jesus told his Apostle to baptize and to make disciples of all nations that all Christians must "emulate" this? You are inconsistent, and seem unable to follow the argument. What is "absurd" and "obvious" to you is betrayed by your lack of reason.

The simple and basic point is this. Unless all Christians are specifically told to do something, what others are told is not necessarily what we must do. There is no command in Scriptures that require all Christians to baptize. There is no command in Scriptures that all or any Christians must follow the Law, even though what God told Moses and Israel may be something we can morally and spiritually "emulate."

When you say we are required to "emulate" something you are implying that what was commanded the Apostles is also commanded all Christians. You have neither proved this nor proved what "emulating that" really means, ie whether it is something we are required to do or merely something we have the option of doing?

Aah, This only proves you are not understanding Scripture, at all! Apparently you don’t recognize commands when they’re given….

Also, I never said we were under Law; we are not under Law! There can only be one testament in effect and it’s the NT/ NC.

-Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it written, cursed is everyone who hangs on the tree). Gal. 3:13
-What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgression, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made…..Gal. 3:19