Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[reneweddaybyday]

I believe those who remain in unbelief never experienced the power of God when the gospel was shared.

I don't know what you mean by "never experienced the power of God when the gospel was shared" ...

I believe those who remain in unbelief do so because they suppressed the truth in unrighteousness when the gospel was shared as shown in Rom 1:17-18 ...

possibly a distinction without a difference ??? ... depends on what you mean by "never experienced the power of God when the gospel was shared".
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[Magenta]

As @reneweddaybyday keeps informing you, if it is God's plan to reveal Himself to His creatures, as described in Romans 1

it is completely reasonable and follows scripture that humans retain the ability to respond to the Good News.

Does that mean you have changed your stance from "God is unfair" to agreeing with Scripture in that God reveals Himself personally to people? Your stance was quite ridiculous to begin with, since there are quite a few instances of God revealing Himself to people in the Bible, and not one is exactly the same as another. But that did not stop you from blaspheming God over it, or mocking the whole idea of it, or trying to shame those who affirm it.

I wonder. You do like to misrepresent yourself, and Scripture. Do you still say everyone hears?

Because it is not the gospel that is revealed in creation.

Believing there is a God is a far cry from believing the gospel.

The natural man finds the gospel to be foolishness. You refuse to accept that.

Your whole claim is based on that person choosing to believe what he has decided is foolish.

Choosing to believe with his incurably wicked heart.

Choosing to submit and obey when Scripture explicitly says he cannot.

Contradicting and denying what Scripture explicitly articulates is second nature to FWers.

 

[Cameron143]

salvation is afforded to all who believe the gospel of Christ:

Romans 1:16-19 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

The gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation to those who believe ... those who believe receive the blessing.

The gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation to those who believe ... those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness receive the consequence.
.

It's your belief that the power of God in salvation is simply in audibly hearing the words of scripture?

 

[Cameron143]

I don't know what you mean by "never experienced the power of God when the gospel was shared" ...

I believe those who remain in unbelief do so because they suppressed the truth in unrighteousness when the gospel was shared as shown in Rom 1:17-18 ...

possibly a distinction without a difference ??? ... depends on what you mean by "never experienced the power of God when the gospel was shared".
.

What is the power of God unto salvation contained in the gospel?

 

[Jordon]

I do not even know how you got that from me.

Makes no sense.

ok my mistake, just that when you said grace is for everyone and not just the elect, I wondered what made you feel that way.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

That's 1 view, but Romans 1 doesn't say that knowledge through creation and conscience is the power of God unto salvation. So while this knowledge is available to all, it is only sufficient to make man accountable, and not sufficient for salvation.

read Rom 1:20 and include Rom 1:16-19 in your reading ... the verses before Rom 1:20 ... the verse which states creation reveals the eternal power and Godhead of God ...
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[Cameron143]

I seriously do not know whether to laugh or cry.

So you believe the knowledge of God in creation and conscience is the power of God unto salvation.

 

[Magenta]

What is the power of God unto salvation contained in the gospel?

Jews demand signs and Greeks search for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block
to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks,
Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than man’s
wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man’s strength.

Some go on and on about the order of salvation while denying what Scripture explicitly articulates.

Romans 8 verse 29-30; Ephesians 1 verse 5 ~ Those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified. He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will.

 

[Cameron143]

read Rom 1:20 and include Rom 1:16-19 in your reading ... the verses before Rom 1:20 ... the verse which states creation reveals the eternal power and Godhead of God ...
.

Do you believe the knowledge of God through creation and conscience is the power of God unto salvation?

 

[Genez]

Seems to me that you are saying that we are not saved by grace alone. In your world it must be grace + an act of man!

How ... In your understanding .... Does grace alone save you?

Maybe if we can find out what it is you are thinking.

 

[Magenta]

John 14 v 17a, Romans 8 v 6-9 ~ “Inability” in Bible. The world cannot receive the Spirit of truth. The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God. You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. Praise be to God for calling me out of the world.

 

[cv5]

The "children of promise" are those God has chosen in eternity -- just like in eternity He chose Issac over Ishmael and Jacob over Esau. And God's choices do not depend upon the man who runs or the man who wills (Rom 9:16)!

Because you fail to understand Romans 9 (despite the many fine teachings provided here)?
Due to your total abrogation of those aforesaid efforts, I remain entirely unconvinced that your view has any merit whatsoever.

 

[lrs68]

Seems to me that you are saying that we are not saved by grace alone. In your world it must be grace + an act of man!

Seems to me like I am showing how Paul represents the Verse in discussion. And if it shows free will maybe it means you don't understand everything else Paul is saying.

 

[lrs68]

The Gospel is a devine power that's for sure.

Are you saying they can simply believe by choice ?

We already discussed that God has told us what we can do and when God Himself says from His mouth [WHOSOEVER BELIEVES] shows us that isn't selection but those who want to.

 

[cv5]

Seems to me that you are saying that we are not saved by grace alone. In your world it must be grace + an act of man!

Typical determinist fallacy, standardized Calvinist gate slamming protocol.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

How many who heard the gospel and remained in unbelief experienced the power of God?

those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness do not "experience" the power of God unto salvation ... however, there is a consequence to suppressing the truth in unrighteousness as God reveals in Rom 1.

How about you? ... when the gospel was presented to you and you did not believe, you remained in unbelief ... it was not until the gospel was presented and you believed that the power of God unto salvation was realized ... and it is an ongoing realization throughout the whole of the life of the believer ... the believer lives from faith to faith ... the whole life is to be lived in faith as God breaks down our strongholds

2 Corinthians 10:3-5 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds; ) Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ

believers in the Lord Jesus Christ ... the church of the one body over which He is the Head ... we are all on this journey in being conformed to the image of Christ ... something that will be fully realized when we see Him face to face.
.
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[lrs68]

You've rewritten the verse to be...the gospel is the power of God to those who choose to believe. Hence, the power is no longer in the gospel but in the choice of the individual. I don't believe this is what the verse teaches. I believe the power of God rests in the gospel.

No I did not. I used the ESV which this site uses.

 

[cv5]

How many who heard the gospel and remained in unbelief experienced the power of God?

But they certainly could have.....if they were WILLING to RECEIVE IT.....

 

[Cameron143]

those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness do not "experience" the power of God unto salvation ... however, there is a consequence to suppressing the truth in unrighteousness as God reveals in Rom 1.

How about you? ... when the gospel was presented to you and you did not believe, you remained in unbelief ... it was not until the gospel was presented and you believed that the power of God unto salvation was realized ... and it is an ongoing realization throughout the whole of the life of the believer ... the believer lives from faith to faith ... the whole life is to be lived in faith as God breaks down our strongholds

2 Corinthians 10:3-5 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds; ) Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ

believers in the Lord Jesus Christ ... the church of the one body over which He is the Head ... we are all on this journey in being conformed to the image of Christ ... something that will be fully realized when we see Him face to face.
.
.

So, none?

 

[Jordon]

[

We already discussed that God has told us what we can do and when God Himself says from His mouth [WHOSOEVER BELIEVES] shows us that isn't selection but those who want to.

When it's said like those who want to, it suggest you don't have to if you want to.

Like I could understand you saying I don't want Brussel sprouts, or I don't want to believe mushy peas are nice.

But saying it's a matter of want when it comes to believing in the gospel, is errr not something you should say really