Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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Whether or not anyone has a freewill is a philosophical question rather than a Biblical question.

Semantics will shred the debate between determinists and freewill in philosophy.

It's not whether your will is totally free or restricted in some ways in the Bible.

The Bible is clear that all are fallen, unrighteous, unable to do anything good (in a Christian sense).

God told us we cannot be saved except through Jesus Christ.

So can anyone freely choose Jesus Christ?

Once again, no we cannot freely accept Jesus as Lord without the influence of the Holy Spirit.

The million dollar question then becomes.

Can anyone believe in Jesus with that encouragement of the Holy Spirit?

Certainly, anyone can believe in Jesus.

The atonement that Jesus gave us was an unrestricted gift.

Don't impress your own philosophical opinion on Christianity.

But at the same time that efficacious gift was restricted to God's covenant people, i.e. Abraham's spiritual descendants which, of course, are scattered throughout the world. Note carefully all the personal pronouns in this passage.

Isa 53:4-6, 8, 11-12
4 Surely he took up
OUR infirmities
and carried
OUR sorrows,
yet
WE considered him stricken by God,
smitten by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for
OUR transgressions,
he was crushed for
OUR iniquities;
the punishment that brought
US peace was upon him,
and by his wounds
WE are healed.
6 WE all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of
US has turned to his own way;
and the LORD has laid on him
the iniquity of
US all....
8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away.
And who can speak of his descendants?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression
of my people he was stricken....
11 After the suffering of his soul,
he will see the light [of life] and be satisfied;
by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify
many,
and he will bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,
and he will divide the spoils with the strong,
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of
many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.
NIV



 
So it's your belief that agreeing with another's observation because I observed the same
thing makes me guilty of self flagellation, mislabeling, and glorying within myself?
How is your post not indicative of the same behavior I was charged with?
He does not even understand the topic.
 
As long as you accept that Israel was chosen but the Gentiles were grafted in later on.

Of course, "the Gentiles were grafted in later on" -- after the New Covenant was ratified by Jesus' shed blood! The New Covenant fully inaugurates fulfillment of the promise made to Abraham that he would become the father of a multitude of [Gentile] nations.
 
We are to cast out the false teachers from among us. That means identifying them first. Of course nobody can cast anyone out here.
They are allowed to continue spreading their falsehoods as long as they please regardless of how wrong they are, and the fact they have zero Biblical support for their "free will" belief stacked against a plethora that teaches the opposite of their claims. For the time has come when men will not tolerate sound doctrine, but with itching ears they will gather around themselves teachers to suit their own desires. A man that is an heretic after the first and second admonition reject... put away the evil from your midst.
I agree with sharing the word of God to encourage and to build a good healthy fellowship.

When we talk about freedom I think it's best to just invite people first with friendliness and gain there trust.

So that when we talk about the more personal matters, it doesn't. Become so personal. This can be overlooked when we fall the temptation to argue personally.
Where all capable of hurting each other, so it's best to take the friendly milk of the word approach here I think on this occasion, and even if it gets rejected we should keep on with the friendly milk of the word approach,

Which is really no brain can function without the breath of life ❤️
 
The Gentiles that believe become the seed of Abraham.
Not, the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Abraham was a gentile believer. Not as Israel.
It was through Jacob that such believers became Israel.
Jacob becomes Israel: Isaac's son, Jacob, wrestled with a divine being and was given the new name "Israel."

Being the spiritual seed of Abraham does not make a gentile into Israel!

Wrong! The true seed of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are the children of promise. Genealogical descent in God's eyes means nothing! You are judging by mere external appearance, whereas God judges the heart which is not seen by others.

Moreover, you conveniently forget another crucially important aspect to the covenant whereby God promised ABRAHAM that he would become the father of a "great nation", i.e. Israel! :rolleyes:
 
This record occurs after the record wherein Abraham believed God and God imputed righteousness to Abraham (Genesis 15).
.

Oh...you mean just like the record of Pharaoh hardening his own heart occurred well after God's prophecy re the king in Ex 3 and how He would fulfill that by hardening Pharaoh's heart (Ex 4)?
 
I agree with sharing the word of God to encourage and to build a good healthy fellowship.

When we talk about freedom I think it's best to just invite people first with friendliness and gain there trust.

So that when we talk about the more personal matters, it doesn't. Become so personal. This can be overlooked when we fall the temptation to argue personally.
Where all capable of hurting each other, so it's best to take the friendly milk of the word approach here I think on this occasion, and even if it gets rejected we should keep on with the friendly milk of the word approach,

Which is really no brain can function without the breath of life ❤️
Gain the trust of untrustworthy people? Eh. Their error needs to be pointed out. They are largely unapproachable
even after the first time of pointing out their error because they are so embroiled and attached to it despite having
no Biblical support, and despite the fact that what they promote directly contradicts what is explicitly articulated.


Colossians2-8-Romans16-18-Romans10-2-Proverbs19-2.png

Colossians 2 v 8, Romans 16 v 18, Romans 10 v 2, Proverbs 19 v 2a ~ See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, which are based on human tradition and the spiritual forces of the world rather than on Christ. For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive. For I testify about them that they are zealous for God, but not on the basis of knowledge. Zeal is no good without knowledge. They teach as doctrine the precepts of men.
 
Satan hates Israel for some reason.....

"SOME REASON"!? You don't have the first clue as to why? :rolleyes: It has never occurred to you that the Satan hates Israel for the same reason all his offspring in the world do?
 
You "guys"(guise) are hiding in a feigned process of self flagellation in what you claim for yourselves.
You will openly glory amongst yourselves when putting down others that you erroneously label "free willers."
You glory within yourselves!
Hypocrites!
Yup. Inescapable conclusion.
Not to mention the ceaseless proffering of vainglorious pseudo-philosophy and the superiority complex baggage they are packing.
 
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"SOME REASON"!? You don't have the first clue as to why? :rolleyes: It has never occurred to you that the Satan hates Israel for the same reason all his offspring in the world do?
As do many Calvinists on this thread.

BTW....did you have a change of heart in this regard?
Or are you drifting with the current?
 
Gain the trust of untrustworthy people? Eh. Their error needs to be pointed out. They are largely unapproachable
even after the first time of pointing out their error because they are so embroiled and attached to it despite having
no Biblical support, and despite the fact that what they promote directly contradicts what is explicitly articulated.


Colossians2-8-Romans16-18-Romans10-2-Proverbs19-2.png

Colossians 2 v 8, Romans 16 v 18, Romans 10 v 2, Proverbs 19 v 2a ~ See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, which are based on human tradition and the spiritual forces of the world rather than on Christ. For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive. For I testify about them that they are zealous for God, but not on the basis of knowledge. Zeal is no good without knowledge. They teach as doctrine the precepts of men.
I'm only concerned for there fragile minds not being able to handle the meat of the word, I'm scared for mental well being as it so obvious there miss using the word of God and by there responses I feel there minds are fragile, there exploding. This is what I feel when we share the meat of the word of God with them they cant handle it.

I'm concerned that's all magenta, ❤️
 
I'm only concerned for there fragile minds not being able to handle the meat of the word, I'm scared for mental well being as it so obvious there miss using the word of God and by there responses I feel there minds are fragile, there exploding. This is what I feel when we share the meat of the word of God with them they cant handle it.

I'm concerned that's all magenta, ❤️
Yeah I had to laugh at their minds are exploding ... yes, it does look that way from some of them, but even when they invite correction, they resist mightily when it is given to the point of simply doubling down... and I don't believe it's just a matter of them not being ready for the meat of the Word... it could be that to a large degree, but it's also the fact that they are convinced of what they believe even after having their errors pointed out multiple times. They simply come back and repeat them over and over again, they are immovable because they reject the Word of God. So there is more than just meat and milk going on here... And it's not like we don't see them blatently lie time and time again, misrepresenting not only the beliefs of others, but their own selves as well. And surely you have noticed also how, built into their idolatry of self, is their hatred of God'S sovereignty?
 
So it's your belief that agreeing with another's observation because I observed the same thing makes me guilty of self flagellation, mislabeling, and glorying within myself?
I notice you did not include this from what Genez posted:

You will openly glory amongst yourselves when putting down others that you erroneously label "free willers."


then you asked:

Can you show me where you believe I have done this?

and I showed you.

So when Magenta says stuff like "How would a FWer know? They don't understand the gospel message since it includes much they reject, deny, and contradict" ...


and you heart heart it ...

that is you"putting down others that you erroneously label as "free willers"" ... whether you acknowledge that truth or not.


When Magenta says stuff like "
It is extremely rare these free willers admit any error. Oh. Some would rather blaspheme God than do that"

and you reply ...

"It certainly seems so sometimes" ...

that is you"putting down others that you erroneously label as "free willers"" ... whether you acknowledge that truth or not.




Cameron143 said:
How is your post not indicative of the same behavior I was charged with?
oh I'm sure you'll continue to insinuate that I behave in the same manner as you and Magenta claim ... these things ought not so to be
.
 
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Yeah I had to laugh at their minds are exploding ... yes, it does look that way from some of them, but even when they invite correction, they resist mightily when it is given to the point of simply doubling down... and I don't believe it's just a matter of them not being ready for the meat of the Word... it could be that to a large degree, but it's also the fact that they are convinced of what they believe even after having their errors pointed out multiple times. They simply come back and repeat them over and over again, they are immovable because they reject the Word of God. So there is more than just meat and milk going on here... And it's not like we don't see them blatently lie time and time again, misrepresenting not only the beliefs of others, but their own selves as well. And surely you have noticed also how, built into their idolatry of self, is their hatred of God'S sovereignty?
Yes this is only reason I was focussed on talking about human emotions at the time of writing, don't worry about laughing about the mind exploding it's a typical nervous reaction, some people can be funny when they go loopy loo,

If we concentrate on seeing the human emotions intent behind the word of God, we can then understand the natural man, so focusing on having on respect for each other was the point I was trying to put across to them, not you Sis ❤️😂

I think it's a bit of a challenge to only focus on natural intent behind the post, as you pointed out, but I feel it's now the way to go. ❤️
 
Yes this is only reason I was focussed on talking about human emotions at the time of writing, don't worry about laughing about the mind exploding it's a typical nervous reaction, some people can be funny when they go loopy loo,

If we concentrate on seeing the human emotions intent behind the word of God, we can then understand the natural man, so focusing on having on respect for each other was the point I was trying to put across to them, not you Sis ❤️😂

I think it's a bit if challenge to only focus on natural intent behind the post, as you pointed out, but I feel it's now the way to go. ❤️
Well the very root of the problem is they do not accept what is said of the natural man... And they continually ascribe to him qualities characteristics and abilities that are really only possessed by the spiritual man. Some have argued about this for quite some time and then admitted they don't even know what I mean when I talk about the natural man or the spiritual man. One other tried to dismiss what is said of the natural man because as they said, he's only mentioned once in Scripture, but that's actually just another one of their lies, because first comes the natural and then comes the spiritual and this is central to the Christian belief. You must be born again... You may have also noticed how they thoroughly reject 1 Corinthians 2:14 because they don't like what it says. They rewrite it to suit how they have been programmed to think.
 
Yeah I had to laugh at their minds are exploding ... yes, it does look that way from some of them, but even when they invite correction, they resist mightily when it is given to the point of simply doubling down... and I don't believe it's just a matter of them not being ready for the meat of the Word... it could be that to a large degree, but it's also the fact that they are convinced of what they believe even after having their errors pointed out multiple times. They simply come back and repeat them over and over again, they are immovable because they reject the Word of God. So there is more than just meat and milk going on here... And it's not like we don't see them blatently lie time and time again, misrepresenting not only the beliefs of others, but their own selves as well. And surely you have noticed also how, built into their idolatry of self, is their hatred of God'S sovereignty?
Somebody's mind is exploding that's for sure......:sneaky:
 
I notice you did not include this from what Genez posted:




then you asked:



and I showed you.

So when Magenta says stuff like "How would a FWer know? They don't understand the gospel message since it includes much they reject, deny, and contradict" ...

and you heart heart it ...

that is you"putting down others that you erroneously label as "free willers"" ... whether you acknowledge that truth or not.


When Magenta says stuff like "It is extremely rare these free willers admit any error. Oh. Some would rather blaspheme God than do that"

and you reply ...

"It certainly seems so sometimes" ...

that is you"putting down others that you erroneously label as "free willers"" ... whether you acknowledge that truth or not.





oh I'm sure you'll continue to insinuate that I behave in the same manner as you and Magenta claim ... these things ought not so to be
.
So you believe I labeled some. It's your opinion of my post, even though I never applied a label and was speaking concerning behavior. I could explain my use of emoji and why I choose particular ones in different situations, but I'm having trouble getting you to understand basic arguments I am making already.

Now, where do you find self flagellation and glorying in myself?
 
Well the very root of the problem is they do not accept what is said of the natural man... And they continually ascribe to him qualities characteristics and abilities that are really only possessed by the spiritual man. Some have argued about this for quite some time and then admitted they don't even know what I mean when I talk about the natural man or the spiritual man. One other tried to dismiss what is said of the natural man because as they said, he's only mentioned once in Scripture, but that's actually just another one of their lies, because first comes the natural and then comes the spiritual and this is central to the Christian belief. You must be born again...
Actually, the root of the problem is that the term "natural man" is used once in all of the Bible.
Then comes the tinker-toy kindergarten level eisegesis predicated upon this one verse standing alone.
Then comes the bogus all consuming doctrine birthed from the error.

Then comes the misanthropic worldview, endless shrieking condemnations and irremediable portents of doom toward every Tom Dick and Harry in all of creation.

Did I get that right?