to do or not to do

[randyk]

On another forum I spoke to the issue of Imputation, and was asked if I just expect Christ to do everything for me, or do I actually "do something" to be a Christian? My answer:

I just had a discussion on this on another forum, and I found that there are 2 sides of the coin. When I give one side of the coin it is protested that I don't give the other side of the coin!

Let me explain. You're completely right that we must *do something* when we convert to Christianity--we must repent and convert. And we must *do something* after we've become Christian--we must do good works befitting the Christian life, to show our maturation, and to get things accomplished in accordance with the Gospel mission.

On the other hand, in the time of the Reformation it was discovered that in the State churches, nominal Christians were doing things to get saved--we can't earn our way to heaven. And it was discovered that nominal Christians were doing good works by their own unrenewed minds, thinking that they were serving God when they were only trying to establish their own reputation for their own selfish purposes.

So, we have to recognize that when I say we should not try to imitate Christ I mean that we cannot, of our own independent mind, be like Christ. We have to accept *his mind,* and obey *his spiritual word to our hearts.*

But clearly, we have access to God's word to our hearts such that we can repent and convert to Christ. We can receive God's word to our hearts and obey Christ. We can do good works inspired by the Holy Spirit and please God.

So, those who say we must just receive the love of God, they aren't completely wrong--they're just giving one side of the equation. We could never love unless God loves us 1st!

But true Christianity is a matter of receiving the word of God, which God gives to all of mankind. True Christians respond to God's word, convert, repent, obey and do good works. Unless we do this, we're not being true Christians, as you say.

 

[Aaron56]

On another forum I spoke to the issue of Imputation, and was asked if I just expect Christ to do everything for me, or do I actually "do something" to be a Christian? My answer:

I just had a discussion on this on another forum, and I found that there are 2 sides of the coin. When I give one side of the coin it is protested that I don't give the other side of the coin!

Let me explain. You're completely right that we must *do something* when we convert to Christianity--we must repent and convert. And we must *do something* after we've become Christian--we must do good works befitting the Christian life, to show our maturation, and to get things accomplished in accordance with the Gospel mission.

On the other hand, in the time of the Reformation it was discovered that in the State churches, nominal Christians were doing things to get saved--we can't earn our way to heaven. And it was discovered that nominal Christians were doing good works by their own unrenewed minds, thinking that they were serving God when they were only trying to establish their own reputation for their own selfish purposes.

So, we have to recognize that when I say we should not try to imitate Christ I mean that we cannot, of our own independent mind, be like Christ. We have to accept *his mind,* and obey *his spiritual word to our hearts.*

But clearly, we have access to God's word to our hearts such that we can repent and convert to Christ. We can receive God's word to our hearts and obey Christ. We can do good works inspired by the Holy Spirit and please God.

So, those who say we must just receive the love of God, they aren't completely wrong--they're just giving one side of the equation. We could never love unless God loves us 1st!

But true Christianity is a matter of receiving the word of God, which God gives to all of mankind. True Christians respond to God's word, convert, repent, obey and do good works. Unless we do this, we're not being true Christians, as you say.

Your post is an outline of the central reason why I do not call myself a Christian but rather prefer the words used in the epistle greetings and in the body.

Christian - follower of Christ, naming scheme used in Roman tradition for followers of a particular philosopher, Christ; could be someone who just agrees, rationally, with Christ's teaching (passive)
son or son of God - a son represents the father and he derives his identity from the Father; in Christ, a member of the eternal house of God; identity from God necessarily seen in the love a son has for others (active)
saint - a person who submits to the leading of the Spirit for sanctification - being set apart for works established in God (active)
ambassador - his ministry does not contain his own opinions, his motivation is the message of the One who sent him; by these things he is a slave to the King (active)
brother - of the same family in Christ, connected to identity and representing the Father.

In the "Christian" circles there are those caught up in identity politics, those who vote for vile people for their leaders (their own opinions), and those who include Christ among many other "thought-leaders" for their eclectic views.

Certainly, anyone can call themselves anything they want... but not in Christ. In Christ we are restrained by the Spirit and are taught to be precise with our words.

 

[randyk]

Your post is an outline of the central reason why I do not call myself a Christian but rather prefer the words used in the epistle greetings and in the body.

Christian - follower of Christ, naming scheme used in Roman tradition for followers of a particular philosopher, Christ; could be someone who just agrees, rationally, with Christ's teaching (passive)
son or son of God - a son represents the father and he derives his identity from the Father; in Christ, a member of the eternal house of God; identity from God necessarily seen in the love a son has for others (active)
saint - a person who submits to the leading of the Spirit for sanctification - being set apart for works established in God (active)
ambassador - his ministry does not contain his own opinions, his motivation is the message of the One who sent him; by these things he is a slave to the King (active)
brother - of the same family in Christ, connected to identity and representing the Father.

In the "Christian" circles there are those caught up in identity politics, those who vote for vile people for their leaders (their own opinions), and those who include Christ among many other "thought-leaders" for their eclectic views.

Certainly, anyone can call themselves anything they want... but not in Christ. In Christ we are restrained by the Spirit and are taught to be precise with our words.

Yes, a lot goes under the name "Christian" that is not truly Christian. I don't throw out the word--I just use it to call nominal Christians to account. If they are to use the name, I ask them not to use it "in vain."

Just like the Commandment, "Do not take the Lord's Name in vain, because He won't held such a one guiltless who improperly uses His Name." One who improperly calls himself or herself a "Christian" when Christ is not in them, and they are not living by him, are "taking the Lord's Name in vain."

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

It's really pretty simple. Believe in the good news to be born in spirit from above, and then walk according to the inward spirit to be fully birthed into eternal life at the first resurrection. Putting to death the longings of the flesh is a good work

For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. Romans 8:13-14​

 

[TruthDefender]

On another forum I spoke to the issue of Imputation, and was asked if I just expect Christ to do everything for me, or do I actually "do something" to be a Christian? My answer:

I just had a discussion on this on another forum, and I found that there are 2 sides of the coin. When I give one side of the coin it is protested that I don't give the other side of the coin!

Let me explain. You're completely right that we must *do something* when we convert to Christianity--we must repent and convert. And we must *do something* after we've become Christian--we must do good works befitting the Christian life, to show our maturation, and to get things accomplished in accordance with the Gospel mission.

On the other hand, in the time of the Reformation it was discovered that in the State churches, nominal Christians were doing things to get saved--we can't earn our way to heaven. And it was discovered that nominal Christians were doing good works by their own unrenewed minds, thinking that they were serving God when they were only trying to establish their own reputation for their own selfish purposes.

So, we have to recognize that when I say we should not try to imitate Christ I mean that we cannot, of our own independent mind, be like Christ. We have to accept *his mind,* and obey *his spiritual word to our hearts.*

But clearly, we have access to God's word to our hearts such that we can repent and convert to Christ. We can receive God's word to our hearts and obey Christ. We can do good works inspired by the Holy Spirit and please God.

So, those who say we must just receive the love of God, they aren't completely wrong--they're just giving one side of the equation. We could never love unless God loves us 1st!

But true Christianity is a matter of receiving the word of God, which God gives to all of mankind. True Christians respond to God's word, convert, repent, obey and do good works. Unless we do this, we're not being true Christians, as you say.

True Christians are to be LIKE Him:

“For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps:”
‭‭I Peter‬ ‭2‬:‭21‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[homwardbound]

On another forum I spoke to the issue of Imputation, and was asked if I just expect Christ to do everything for me, or do I actually "do something" to be a Christian? My answer:

I just had a discussion on this on another forum, and I found that there are 2 sides of the coin. When I give one side of the coin it is protested that I don't give the other side of the coin!

Let me explain. You're completely right that we must *do something* when we convert to Christianity--we must repent and convert. And we must *do something* after we've become Christian--we must do good works befitting the Christian life, to show our maturation, and to get things accomplished in accordance with the Gospel mission.

On the other hand, in the time of the Reformation it was discovered that in the State churches, nominal Christians were doing things to get saved--we can't earn our way to heaven. And it was discovered that nominal Christians were doing good works by their own unrenewed minds, thinking that they were serving God when they were only trying to establish their own reputation for their own selfish purposes.

So, we have to recognize that when I say we should not try to imitate Christ I mean that we cannot, of our own independent mind, be like Christ. We have to accept *his mind,* and obey *his spiritual word to our hearts.*

But clearly, we have access to God's word to our hearts such that we can repent and convert to Christ. We can receive God's word to our hearts and obey Christ. We can do good works inspired by the Holy Spirit and please God.

So, those who say we must just receive the love of God, they aren't completely wrong--they're just giving one side of the equation. We could never love unless God loves us 1st!

But true Christianity is a matter of receiving the word of God, which God gives to all of mankind. True Christians respond to God's word, convert, repent, obey and do good works. Unless we do this, we're not being true Christians, as you say.

Love this analogy, to what is and what is not. The double sided coin or sword. That people use and fight over, I am right and you are wrong, when both are wrong as each are right in their own thought, to me anyways. Since, fights, and wars happen from this thinking going on in each person, each person being, playing god and saying they are right and others are wrong. Has caused wars and rumors of wars since day one in the fall of the first Adam. Today we have the second Adam, that won over evil for us all, y'all not a few, for us all (1John 2:1-27) tells me this truth, anyone else?

God is, "I" am not, are you? God loves us all equally, otherwise the cross would not have ever happened, to me at least. I see this love and mercy given for us all to sit down and say to God thank you for reconciling me as if I never have sinned 92 Cor 5:16-20), wow is me as in Isaiah 6:1-7. Can we not each stop and see God is sharper than any two-edged sword, or coin. Here we have good and bad and each person decides what is good and what is bad and then goes out to tell others and end up fighting over it, can you stop, please and love as called, (John 13:34)
Is that good for our Soul's y'all to fight over anything?
What overcame Evil? Is it not the love and mercy of God for us all or not? You decide and then love as God loves, loved you first in Son as risen for you too, thank you
God accepts anyone in with God on the very first day anyone decides to believe God personally, between God and them, it is not about religion leading anyone, it is about the done work of God for you, you, me and everyone else too, thank you
Love in mercy and truth to all from God for us all to either believe God or not consciously so

 

[TruthDefender]

On another forum I spoke to the issue of Imputation, and was asked if I just expect Christ to do everything for me, or do I actually "do something" to be a Christian? My answer:

I just had a discussion on this on another forum, and I found that there are 2 sides of the coin. When I give one side of the coin it is protested that I don't give the other side of the coin!

Let me explain. You're completely right that we must *do something* when we convert to Christianity--we must repent and convert. And we must *do something* after we've become Christian--we must do good works befitting the Christian life, to show our maturation, and to get things accomplished in accordance with the Gospel mission.

On the other hand, in the time of the Reformation it was discovered that in the State churches, nominal Christians were doing things to get saved--we can't earn our way to heaven. And it was discovered that nominal Christians were doing good works by their own unrenewed minds, thinking that they were serving God when they were only trying to establish their own reputation for their own selfish purposes.

So, we have to recognize that when I say we should not try to imitate Christ I mean that we cannot, of our own independent mind, be like Christ. We have to accept *his mind,* and obey *his spiritual word to our hearts.*

But clearly, we have access to God's word to our hearts such that we can repent and convert to Christ. We can receive God's word to our hearts and obey Christ. We can do good works inspired by the Holy Spirit and please God.

So, those who say we must just receive the love of God, they aren't completely wrong--they're just giving one side of the equation. We could never love unless God loves us 1st!

But true Christianity is a matter of receiving the word of God, which God gives to all of mankind. True Christians respond to God's word, convert, repent, obey and do good works. Unless we do this, we're not being true Christians, as you say.

….and be baptized!?

 

[homwardbound]

….and be baptized!?

In God Father's Spirit and Truth John 4:23-24 wow, woe is me Isaiah 6:1-7

 

[TruthDefender]

In God Father's Spirit and Truth John 4:23-24 wow, woe is me Isaiah 6:1-7

What does the Messianic prophecy of Isa. have to do with baptism?

You mentioned John so read John 3– commands and examples to be BAPTIZED.
The NC/ NT is full of verses on baptism.

 

[homwardbound]

What does the Messianic prophecy of Isa. have to do with baptism?

You mentioned John so read John 3– commands and examples to be BAPTIZED.
The NC/ NT is full of verses on baptism.

it is Spirit Holy Baptism Acts 1:5
Thanks love you why? God loves us all first through Son first in getting us all reconciled as forgiven 100% forever in this done work, done once for us all, to be taught new by Father in risen Son, for me at least I see this presently in thankfulness to God for loving us all this deep, wide and high forever I am thankful

 

[TruthDefender]

it is Spirit Holy Baptism Acts 1:5
Thanks love you why? God loves us all first through Son first in getting us all reconciled as forgiven 100% forever in this done work, done once for us all, to be taught new by Father in risen Son, for me at least I see this presently in thankfulness to God for loving us all this deep, wide and high forever I am thankful

Yes, love is important, but we are called to follow the pattern and examples throughout Scripture.

I have tons of Scripture calling us to be baptized in Jesus. Jesus was even baptized! He set a good example…..

 

[randyk]

….and be baptized!?

Just as Israel entered into Covenant with God via the Law after passing through the Red Sea, so early converts to Christianity from Judaism passed through the waters of baptism to enter into the Gospel. These were symbolic acts, and not obligatory on a universal basis.

Not all who God would save from among the Gentiles would be "baptized" by passing through the Red Sea or through the Jordan River. And not all who have become converts to Christianity in all nations have had to do other than put their faith in Jesus to be saved.

The point was, those who did get baptized in order to express their wish to enter into the Gospel of Christ are assured of their Salvation. The most important element in Salvation is not Water Baptism, but rather, the clear expression of a desire to enter into Christian Salvation by faith. Water Baptism, if used to confirm this through true faith, would guarantee it.

 

[TruthDefender]

Just as Israel entered into Covenant with God via the Law after passing through the Red Sea, so early converts to Christianity from Judaism passed through the waters of baptism to enter into the Gospel. These were symbolic acts, and not obligatory on a universal basis.

Not all who God would save from among the Gentiles would be "baptized" by passing through the Red Sea or through the Jordan River. And not all who have become converts to Christianity in all nations have had to do other than put their faith in Jesus to be saved.

The point was, those who did get baptized in order to express their wish to enter into the Gospel of Christ are assured of their Salvation. The most important element in Salvation is not Water Baptism, but rather, the clear expression of a desire to enter into Christian Salvation by faith. Water Baptism, if used to confirm this through true faith, would guarantee it.

You’re partly right.
This is what God said:

-Matt. 28:19 refers to Jesus commanding the 11 disciples/ apostles, vs 16, to go out and make disciples of all the nations, BAPTIZING them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit (Trinity). Matt. 28:19

There are many more verses throughout the NT. This sounds like a command to me!

Shalom

 

[randyk]

You’re partly right.
This is what God said:

-Matt. 28:19 refers to Jesus commanding the 11 disciples/ apostles, vs 16, to go out and make disciples of all the nations, BAPTIZING them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit (Trinity). Matt. 28:19

There are many more verses throughout the NT. This sounds like a command to me!

Shalom

Well, that's what they did. Where is baptizing people made part of the Gospel beyond the ministry of the apostles? Of course, it has been practiced all down through NT history. But I've never seen it made a necessity theologically, or as a critical part of Salvation.

 

[TruthDefender]

Well, that's what they did. Where is baptizing people made part of the Gospel beyond the ministry of the apostles? Of course, it has been practiced all down through NT history. But I've never seen it made a necessity theologically, or as a critical part of Salvation.

It can’t get any more plain than that— it’s a command!

Like I said, there are many, many verses in the NT regarding baptism.

 

[randyk]

It can’t get any more plain than that— it’s a command!

Like I said, there are many, many verses in the NT regarding baptism.

You are *not* being plain. Where is this so-called "command" given beyond the command to the Apostles to baptize?

 

[homwardbound]

What does the Messianic prophecy of Isa. have to do with baptism?

You mentioned John so read John 3– commands and examples to be BAPTIZED.
The NC/ NT is full of verses on baptism.

Glad, elated you have started your journey into God's mysterious ways, me trusting Father to teach us both, thank you
You apparently do not see the transfer from under Law to upholding Law as is done in Son, no more work of self to be liked by others and approved of God Father of Son for us, at least me, Son has done that once for us all, John 19:30, John 1:29, Psalm 103:12
We, I have moved on from water Baptism to Spirit Baptism of Father in risen Son given us, all that believe Daddy, PaPa, Father to me at least. Thank you Jesus as the truth sets people free in love and mercy given thee
Thank you love you and all as called John 13:34
One faith, One Lord, One Baptism, Eph 4:5
Acts 1:5, John truly Baptized with water, not long Father will Baptize you with his Holy Spirit, then Pentecost happened, and the Spirit Baptism began and is still going forward presently daily from Father of risen Son to us all daily, Daddy patiently waiting for the next one to enter and see also
It takes on my part at least to not quit as said in Col 1:21-23
God just .loves us all y'all, a fact that will not disappear, has not yet for a long while now, thank you Father. Just take a look at Jesus's going to that cross willingly, without any flesh fight back to the that put him there.
He is risen, overcame death for you, me and everyone else too, 1 John 2:1-27

 

[randyk]

Glad, elated you have started your journey into God's mysterious ways, me trusting Father to teach us both, thank you
You apparently do not see the transfer from under Law to upholding Law as is done in Son, no more work of self to be liked by others and approved of God Father of Son for us, at least me, Son has done that once for us all, John 19:30, John 1:29, Psalm 103:12
We, I have moved on from water Baptism to Spirit Baptism of Father in risen Son given us, all that believe Daddy, PaPa, Father to me at least. Thank you Jesus as the truth sets people free in love and mercy given thee
Thank you love you and all as called John 13:34
One faith, One Lord, One Baptism, Eph 4:5
Acts 1:5, John truly Baptized with water, not long Father will Baptize you with his Holy Spirit, then Pentecost happened, and the Spirit Baptism began and is still going forward presently daily from Father of risen Son to us all daily, Daddy patiently waiting for the next one to enter and see also
It takes on my part at least to not quit as said in Col 1:21-23
God just .loves us all y'all, a fact that will not disappear, has not yet for a long while now, thank you Father. Just take a look at Jesus's going to that cross willingly, without any flesh fight back to the that put him there.
He is risen, overcame death for you, me and everyone else too, 1 John 2:1-27

Yes, Water Baptism was the critical element in Jesus' time to show that one had left the old ways of Moses' Law, and its water cleansing, to devotion to an entirely New Covenant, water baptism merely symbolizing Spirit Baptism.

The Spirit Baptism into Jesus is what is essential, and that was accomplished not by the external ceremony of Water Baptism, which followed conversion, but rather, by confessing Jesus as Lord, and then following him spiritually in our lives. Spirit Baptism, therefore, is the "one Baptism" that unites us with God eternally and what unites us all as believers in Christ.

When we are externally baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Spirit, let us recognize that the external ceremony is not the important thing, but rather, the fact it represents our commitment to live before God and in the Son, and through the power of the Holy Spirit, who unites us with Christ.

 

[homwardbound]

Yes, love is important, but we are called to follow the pattern and examples throughout Scripture.

I have tons of Scripture calling us to be baptized in Jesus. Jesus was even baptized! He set a good example…..

It is the Love of God that overcame evil and stands this way forever 1 Cor 13:13

 

[homwardbound]

Yes, Water Baptism was the critical element in Jesus' time to show that one had left the old ways of Moses' Law, and its water cleansing, to devotion to an entirely New Covenant, water baptism merely symbolizing Spirit Baptism.

The Spirit Baptism into Jesus is what is essential, and that was accomplished not by the external ceremony of Water Baptism, which followed conversion, but rather, by confessing Jesus as Lord, and then following him spiritually in our lives. Spirit Baptism, therefore, is the "one Baptism" that unites us with God eternally and what unites us all as believers in Christ.

When we are externally baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Spirit, let us recognize that the external ceremony is not the important thing, but rather, the fact it represents our commitment to live before God and in the Son, and through the power of the Holy Spirit, who unites us with Christ.

As only Father, Daddy, PaPa reveals to each of his kids. Me, learning daily in the love and mercy of Son given me to see and love all in my willing response to this love and mercy of God given us all through Son, as you see this also, wow, hallelujah. freed as in Col 2 tells me of. As in Romans 14 expounds onto, deeper than just about food
Thank you Father and Son as One (Won) for us all to choose to believe you or not consciously so, amazing grace this is, Amazing