Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Magenta]

Only God is good when it comes to natural man.

It really is as simple as that.

But I do feel that promoting freedom in suffering a spiritual severance from God is bordering on absurd

I do have confusing thoughts over the matter,. Which mainly is to do with was there something spiritual about our nature in the first before there was a severance ?

Just on the bases of in order for our nature to have a spiritual severance from God is it possible the natural man did have a spiritual nature at first.

Well at least some kind of.spirual nature. Its all a bit confusing for me to be honest.

Any righteousness we have is not our own, but Christ's (we put on His), so only God is good regardless of whether you are comparing Him to the natural man or to the spiritual man. It is so odd that the heretics here oppose and mock this Scriptural truth. I agree that the free will position is absurd. Scripture plainly tells us that man is a slave to sin. His love for darkness has him refusing to come into the light, and he is opposed to the Spiritual things of God which he can neither receive nor comprehend... and it is Jesus Who sets us free. That man is defined as darkness itself so it translates quite nicely into his love of self over his love of God, which he cannot do with his hostile mind and stony heart, which is why God needs to replace it ... and He draws us with loving-kindness ... this is personal, and knowing God is only through personal revelation, something else that is mocked by some of these heretics. The natural man -the one who is not indwelt with the Holy Spirit- cannot receive these things from God, since they are discerned only through the Spirit.

 

[Rufus]

The amazing thing about our salvation.
You can end up being a total loser in regard to getting all your concepts wrong (wood, hay, and stubble) ...
And will still be saved. Just no rewards.

For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. ​

If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, ​

their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be ​

revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. If what has been ​

built survives, the builder will receive a reward. If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss ​

but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames. 1 Cor 3:11-15​

​

Your fleshly way of winning and thinking remains, demanding to be your savior.

Wood, hay, and straw.

It happens!

You had better get back on your meds quickly -- before the men in white come get you.

 

[studier]

I’ve noticed some aren’t here to discuss the Bible but distract from what it says and explain thier alternative version of things …. That’s why the Bible discussion forum is always a carnal argument about basic fundamental things taught clearly in the Bible.


i wonder alot if there’s any benefit at all to coming here or if it’s actually a detriment to many who do

Depends on level of maturity & strength & purpose. There are most certainly more productive things to do with time and there is a danger to the immature. This seems more of an exercise and breeding ground for poor thinking and error. It almost seems the best thing to do is to put on ignore anyone who won't interact with Scripture in a productive way.

I saw one thread where a guy came on and did that and anybody that he could see not dealing with the topic and with Scripture honestly, he readily put on ignore. I don't think he stayed here too long. I wish he had.

A few thoughts from others:

Proverbs 26:4 (NKJV) Do not answer a fool according to his folly, lest you also be like him.

Proverbs 29:9 (NKJV) If a wise man contends with a foolish man, whether the fool rages or laughs, there is no peace.

Proverbs 18:2 (NKJV) A fool has no delight in understanding, but in expressing his own heart.

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.”

“It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument.”

“Quarreling with someone who cannot reason is like fencing with a blindfolded man—he’ll swing wildly, miss entirely, and claim victory.”

 

[Pilgrimshope]

So...conviction by the Holy Spirit? Does it entail an element or aspect of persuasion?

it entails hearing and believing the gospel. That’s it not rejecting it . The Holy Ghost teaches and convicts by the gospel and word of Christ for those who hear and believe


“If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; even the Spirit of truth;…

….These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:15-17, 25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

so the Holy Ghost convicts of sin like this the gospel is preached

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:3‬ ‭

“I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭5:32‬ ‭

“Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:19‬ ‭

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭

the preaching of the gospel brings everything that Jesus and his apostles are teaching about ….. the issue is people reject it . The conviction and judgements are all in the gospel that’s why we have to hear and believe the gospel to be saved. That’s where all those details are found and applicable

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Depends on level of maturity & strength & purpose. There are most certainly more productive things to do with time and there is a danger to the immature. This seems more of an exercise and breeding ground for poor thinking and error. It almost seems the best thing to do is to put on ignore anyone who won't interact with Scripture in a productive way.

I saw one thread where a guy came on and did that and anybody that he could see not dealing with the topic and with Scripture honestly, he readily put on ignore. I don't think he stayed here too long. I wish he had.

A few thoughts from others:

Proverbs 26:4 (NKJV) Do not answer a fool according to his folly, lest you also be like him.

Proverbs 29:9 (NKJV) If a wise man contends with a foolish man, whether the fool rages or laughs, there is no peace.

Proverbs 18:2 (NKJV) A fool has no delight in understanding, but in expressing his own heart.

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.”

“It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument.”

“Quarreling with someone who cannot reason is like fencing with a blindfolded man—he’ll swing wildly, miss entirely, and claim victory.”

Well stated and appreciated

 

[Rufus]

The flesh forbids the soul the freedom to know the truth.

God with His powerhouse of Grace grabs the flesh and binds it up while God grants that soul a free hearing.

Without grace? No one.

But only God's humble covenant people are given God's grace.

And by the way, the God who "so loved the world" in the distributive sense and GAVE his Son to it...that very same God does not give his ear to the prayers of sinners. A slight incongruity between these two truths, wouldn't you say?

 

[lrs68]

God doesn't have TWO peoples! The entire bible is God's love letter to his elect which is ONE Body of People, i.e. THE Body of Christ -- throughout all ages! When God spoke to the first generation of NC believers, he spoke to all his saints throughout the centuries by extension.

You really have no clue to what I am saying. I never said anything about 2 people.

 

[cv5]

Depends on level of maturity & strength & purpose. There are most certainly more productive things to do with time and there is a danger to the immature. This seems more of an exercise and breeding ground for poor thinking and error. It almost seems the best thing to do is to put on ignore anyone who won't interact with Scripture in a productive way.

I saw one thread where a guy came on and did that and anybody that he could see not dealing with the topic and with Scripture honestly, he readily put on ignore. I don't think he stayed here too long. I wish he had.

A few thoughts from others:

Proverbs 26:4 (NKJV) Do not answer a fool according to his folly, lest you also be like him.

Proverbs 29:9 (NKJV) If a wise man contends with a foolish man, whether the fool rages or laughs, there is no peace.

Proverbs 18:2 (NKJV) A fool has no delight in understanding, but in expressing his own heart.

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.”

“It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument.”

“Quarreling with someone who cannot reason is like fencing with a blindfolded man—he’ll swing wildly, miss entirely, and claim victory.”

Pro 10:8
The wise in heart will receive commandments: but a prating fool shall fall.

And they are falling like dominoes around there. Truly, its epic.

 

[cv5]

But only God's humble covenant people are given God's grace.

You had better get back on your meds quickly -- before the men in white come get you.

So what is to become of the graceless and proud then?

 

[Magenta]

Righteousness Of Christ ~ “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.” You were dead in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, in which you used to walk when you conformed to the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit who is now at work in the sons of disobedience. The Son gives life to whom He is pleased to give it. If Christ is in you, your spirit is alive because of righteousness. We put on the righteousness of Christ.

 

[Magenta]

Proverbs 26:4 (NKJV) Do not answer a fool according to his folly, lest you also be like him.

Proverbs 26 v 5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he become wise in his own eyes.

Proverbs 26 v 4-5

 

[rogerg]

Depends on level of maturity & strength & purpose. There are most certainly more productive things to do with time and there is a danger to the immature. This seems more of an exercise and breeding ground for poor thinking and error. It almost seems the best thing to do is to put on ignore anyone who won't interact with Scripture in a productive way.

I saw one thread where a guy came on and did that and anybody that he could see not dealing with the topic and with Scripture honestly, he readily put on ignore. I don't think he stayed here too long. I wish he had.

A few thoughts from others:

Proverbs 26:4 (NKJV) Do not answer a fool according to his folly, lest you also be like him.

Proverbs 29:9 (NKJV) If a wise man contends with a foolish man, whether the fool rages or laughs, there is no peace.

Proverbs 18:2 (NKJV) A fool has no delight in understanding, but in expressing his own heart.

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.”

“It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument.”

“Quarreling with someone who cannot reason is like fencing with a blindfolded man—he’ll swing wildly, miss entirely, and claim victory.”

Good idea, you're going on ignore.

 

[Cameron143]

it entails hearing and believing the gospel. That’s it not rejecting it . The Holy Ghost teaches and convicts by the gospel and word of Christ for those who hear and believe


“If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; even the Spirit of truth;…

….These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:15-17, 25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

so the Holy Ghost convicts of sin like this the gospel is preached

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:3‬ ‭

“I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭5:32‬ ‭

“Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:19‬ ‭

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭

the preaching of the gospel brings everything that Jesus and his apostles are teaching about ….. the issue is people reject it . The conviction and judgements are all in the gospel that’s why we have to hear and believe the gospel to be saved. That’s where all those details are found and applicable

That sounds like the conviction is coming from the heart and conscience of the individual. The Spirit isn't doing any convicting. He is simply informing. Is this your position?
Who or what persuaded the belief? Who or what actually convinced the person of truth?

 

[Magenta]

Isaiah 51 v 6 Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look at the earth below; for the heavens will vanish like smoke, the earth will wear out like a garment, and its people will die like gnats. But My salvation will last forever, and My righteousness will never fail.

 

[cv5]

The repentant woman is a great example of what the Fear of God does to people's volitions who are granted this precious gift -- oops, I meant to say hearts!

The episode of the woman of Luke 7 is a great example of.....

The true nature of the self-appointed religious Pharisaical elite (chosen to be saved at birth so they think), who are "slamming the gate" in their HEARTS to "them that are entering....in".

Doubtless they believe that this woman is afflicted with "total inability" (not to mention total unworthiness) and is "spiritually dead".

Luk 7:39
Now when the Pharisee which had bidden him saw it, he spake within himself, saying, This man, if he were a prophet, would have known who and what manner of woman this is that toucheth him: for she is a sinner.

Jesus, as is His prerogative, EXALTS this womans true repentance and worshipful deeds, rewarding this showing of love and courage by making it an exemplar for all eternity.

Luk 7:44
And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head.

7:45
Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet.

Luk 7:46
My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment.

Luk 7:47
Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

.

 

[Jordon]

“The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, Searching all the inward parts of the belly.”
‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭20:27‬ ‭

“For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him?

even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭2:11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We didn’t lose our living spirit in Eden , we lost gods spirits , presence with us .

When we accept the Holy Ghost we’re accepting Gods spirit back with our spirit

“The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the Holy Ghost doesn’t replace us he comes to be with us as a companion

“If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. ….But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:1

your right man has always from the beginning had a living spirit in us what we lost was the constant companionship of Gods spirit dwelling with us. And that’s what the gospel restores Gods holy spirit with us

…..we have a spirit that can be saved by Jesus

sir I really want you to believe me when I say I believe this also.

That I believe there is a living spirit we have also but is all of that spirit living for the unsaved . But the spiritual presence with God,I have concerns
.
Btw this was a really thoughtful post sir,

We lost our spiritual presence with God, is something I've also been pondering in the same light as you.

But what died in us ? A severance of our ability to communicate with God.

Is this simply as that there. Is this simply what your seeing ?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

So...you believe that the saints in the eternal New Order will be capable of sinning? Jesus really did not conquer sin and death, did He? Is this the Big Lie in scripture!?

“So...you believe that the saints in the eternal New Order will be capable of sinning? “

naw this is an idea you are diverting from what I did say with.

“Jesus really did not conquer sin and death, did He? “

Of course he did … he never sinned and rose from the dead alive forever more . Have you read the Bible ever ?

But again lol ….. you are just tossing things against a wall creating things nonone said , this is literally How a couple of you answer every post . It’s a waste of the other persons time when you don’t actually read or address what they do say , then create straw men to argue about that they never even spoke about lol it’s like a circus or at the least a circle with no scenery to at least enjoy the circular ride

“Sin and Death will always plague the saints in the visible kingdom?”

yeah it will plague humans because they reject the doctrine that jesus said will set them free from sins dominion and save thier souls …..They don’t believe it so they reject it. And tell people “ it’s just whatever god soveriegnly decides ! Grace grace !

naw it’s the gospel he sent out to all creation that’s salvation for anyone who hears and believes and leaves no hope for anyone who hears and rejects it God has invited all creation some don’t want to go they have other plans






Apparently you have a different concept of sinners and saints than I do.

 

[Magenta]

John 15 verse 5c; Philippians 2 verse 13 ~ Apart from Me you can do nothing. For it is God who works in you to will and to act on behalf of His good purpose.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

You really have no clue to what I am saying. I never said anything about 2 people.

You’ll notice the tactic of never actually replying to anything you’ve said but turning and making you defend something you weren’t even talking about lol ….

this is how I feel after some of these discussions

 

[Rufus]

Is disrespecting your elders part of your philosophy of dominance, superiority and pride?
I would urge you to consider all of the free will elements here [that I personally and gladly read into the following passages]

This woman came to Jesus of her own free will....she was not dragged kicking and screaming.
Consequently, both love and forgiveness were displayed and both were FREELY GIVEN.

[Luk 7:40 NKJV]
And Jesus answered and said to him, "Simon, I have something to say to you." So he said, "Teacher, say it."

[Luk 7:41 NKJV]
"There was a certain creditor who had two debtors. One owed five hundred denarii, and the other fifty.

[Luk 7:42 NKJV]
"And when they had nothing with which to repay, he ***freely*** forgave them both. Tell Me, therefore, which of them will love him more?"

[Luk 7:43 NKJV]
Simon answered and said, "I suppose the [one] whom he forgave more." And He said to him, "You have rightly judged."

[Luk 7:44 NKJV]
Then He turned to the woman and said to Simon, "Do you see this woman? I entered your house; you gave Me no water for My feet, but she has washed My feet with her tears and wiped [them] with the hair of her head.

[Luk 7:45 NKJV]
"You gave Me no kiss, but this woman has not ceased to kiss My feet since the time I came in.

[Luk 7:46 NKJV]
"You did not anoint My head with oil, but this woman has anointed My feet with fragrant oil.

[Luk 7:47 NKJV]
"Therefore I say to you, her sins, which [are] many, are forgiven, for she loved much. But to whom little is forgiven, [the same] loves little."

[Luk 7:48 NKJV]
Then He said to her, "Your sins are forgiven."

[Luk 7:49 NKJV]
And those who sat at the table with Him began to say to themselves, "Who is this who even forgives sins?"

[Luk 7:50 NKJV]
Then He said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you. Go in peace."

FTFY!