Am I correct with my understanding of this? Faith in Jesus alone = salvation

[Beckworth]

In response to Post #106, Part 2.

Here is scripture # 7 That “proves (?)” that Faith has nothing to do with salvation because it is not mentioned in this (and all of the other) verses. According to Mailman.)

1 Peter 3:21. Here the apostle Peter says, guided by the Holy Spirit, that baptism saves us. Now, Mailman says that is a lie. You can’t actually believe what PETER says here. He MUST deny this very plain statement from God because if it is true, then it destroys His doctrine of salvation by faith only. But then he says if baptism is not mentioned in a verse that is teaching about faith, then that means, baptism is not necessary to salvation, thus protecting his faith only doctrine. So, if that is true, then, here is a verse that is teaching about baptism, but It does not mention faith. What should I believe about that? It MUST mean that since faith is not mentioned in this verse then faith is not necessary for salvation. After all, it only says baptism saves you, it does NOT say that faith saves you. That also means that I can ADD the word ONLY to that verse and say we are saved by baptism ONLY; or we are saved by baptism ALONE. This is what he does with faith; why can’t I do that with baptism????And to show how wrong that practice is, I can also follow that line of thinking with “repentance.” We’ve already seen 5 very strong scriptures from God that emphasizes the necessity of repentance. Would it be wrong for me to teach that we are SAVED BY REPENTANCE ALONE? Is it wrong for me to teach that, but it is NOT WRONG for them to teach SALVATION BY FAITH ALONE? They are BOTH wrong and for the same reasons! Because Jesus, The Son of God says and teaches that they are both necessary. Mark 16:16 and Luke 13:3., Acts 17:30.
8) Acts 22:16- Ananias tells Saul to be baptized, and WASH AWAY YOUR SINS, calling on the name of the Lord. Where is faith? It’s not in that verse. Why didn’t Ananias tell Saul to believe and wash away your sins? He did not even know Saul, had never met him before. How does he know if Saul believes or not?? In fact, all he knows about Saul is that he is an UNBELIEVER who has been persecuting Christians. That’s what he says to God. So why doesn’t he tell him to believe? I guess that means faith does not save you. Faith is not mentioned here, so that means it is not necessary to WASH AWAY YOUR SINS. All you need to do is be baptized. You don’t have to believe. It’s not in that verse is it? Then it is not necessary for salvation Surely, Ananias would have mentioned it if it was necessary. ( this is NOT my thinking but Mailman’s belief)
And finally, # 9-1 Cor. 1. Paul simply lists 2 things that are NECESSARY, he says MUST BE before you can call yourself a “Christian” after Christ. One, is Christ must have been CRUCIFIED for you and second, you MUST HAVE BEEN BAPTIZED INTO HIM. He doesn’t even mention faith! Where is faith? It’s not there. That means, by Mailman’s argument that faith, since it is not in those verses cannot be necessary to call yourself a “Christian.” All we need to do, according to 1 Cor. 1 is be baptized into Christ. That is all that chapter says we must do to be a Christian. Faith is not mentioned. It is not there. And we can support what Paul is saying in 1 Cor. 1 with what he says in Galatians 3:27 that says “As many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.” So, in order to call yourself after Christ, you must be baptized into Him and put Him on. Obviously, faith has nothing to do with it because faith is not mentioned in any of those scriptures.
I ask you to have an honest heart. You see how this argument against baptism is foolish and proves nothing. If it doesn’t prove faith is unnecessary, then the same argumentation does NOT prove baptism is unnecessary.

 

[sawdust]

I am sorry but I am interpreting that passage differently than you do. It says (much better than I am able to verbalize) "and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also-not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God"

The clear conscience is made possible through Christ resurrection. How do you see water involved in that?

 

[sawdust]

Mailman, Your answer to Mark 16:16 is wrong since baptism is only for BELIEVERS” Acts 8:37. You know it was UN-necessary for Jesus to say “He who does not believe and is not baptized.” If you dont believe, baptism is out of the question. The bottom line is, if you want to know how to be saved, read the first part of the verse. If you want to know how to be lost, read the second part. You are really hurting and grasping at straws to think that your man-made explanation for the last part WIPE’S OUT or makes the first part of that verse a lie. Because that’s what you are saying—that Jesus lied when He said “He that believes and is baptized will be saved.” Since you say that is not true, what are you doing but calling Jesus the Son of God a liar. Mark 16:16 is TRUE, EVERY WORD of it. What Jesus said is true- it takes both faith and baptism to be saved. He put baptism BEFORE salvation—not after salvation. That verse remains true, regardless of whether you believe it or not, whether you ACCEPT it or not. All you are doing by trying to explain it away is proving the Son of God is a liar. Mark 16:16 is too plain and too damaging to “faith only” doctrine for me to worry about your puny attempt to get rid of it.

you haven’t proved anything by “pulling out” 9 scriptures that talk about “faith” but do not mention baptism. Are you “hurting” or what! I can pull out 9 more scriptures that are directly connected to salvation and show that NONE OF THEM mention “faith” . Does that PROVE that we are Not saved by faith? Does that mean faith is not necessary? I guess it does if your argument is true. So you have just disproved your own doctrine!! Here are 9 MORE scriptures that by YOUR REASONING “ prove” Faith is not necessary for salvation.
1) Acts 2:38. Here we have people specifically asking WHAT MUST WE DO TO BE SAVED? And what is Peter’s answer ? Did he say Believe? NO! He said “repent and be baptized.”!! By your logic, I’ve just proven “faith” is not required. It’s not mentioned here at all, so it is not necessarily. ( yes, I know, this is silly, but, this is THEIR argument—not mine.)). If faith is absolutely required for salvation, then you would expect Peter to have mentioned it; ESPECIALLY since this is the answer to “what must we do to be SAVED.” But no, faith is not included in his answer so that “proves” it does not save us. It is not in God’s plan of salvation.
2) Luke 13:3. Jesus is talking and He says “ unless you REPENT, you will all perish. IF FAITH IS NECESSARY to salvation why didn’t He say “Unless you Believe” you will all perish? It doesn’t matter that he may have said that faith saves us in OTHER scriptures. He doesn’t say that HERE, so that means that it does NOT save us, and is not necessary to salvation. God also says that baptism is necessary in Acts 2:38 and that it even SAVES US,in 1 Peter 3:21 but YOU say that just because it is not in the verses about faith that you quoted, you deduct that it does NOT save us and in fact is not necessary to salvation. No, Jesus didn’t say that unless you believe you will perish, , He said Unless you REPENT you will perish. Where is Faith in that verse? It’s not there!! So Faith can’t be necessary to salvation. And, by the way, I guess this means we are saved by REPENTANCE ONLY”!! I can ADD the word ONLY to that verse can’t I? After all, you add it to EVERY verse that has anything to do with faith. So if it works for faith, it should work for repentance, too.
3) Jesus says the same thing in Luke 13:5. Jesus REPEATS His teaching on the necessity of REPENTANCE WITHOUT FAITH!!
If faith was necessary for salvation then we would expect Him to mention it at least ONCE, but NO! Jesus says repentance is ALL that is needed and to make sure we get it, He EMPHASIZES it by saying it TWICE!!!! I believe MY choice of scriptures are STRONGER than your choice of scriptures (lol).
4) Acts 3:19. REPENT and be converted that your sins may be blotted out!” Why didn’t he say “BELIEVE” and be converted that your sins may be blotted out? That is, if faith only is what saves you? , if faith alone is all we need to be saved, then how can repentance convert us and blot out our sins???? This proves( according to you) that, not only is faith not necessary to salvation, but also proves that no one is saved by “FAITH ALONE.” According to you, we can’t be saved by both faith AND repentance, so this verse plainly teaches that we are saved by repentance ALONE because faith is not even mentioned here.
5) Acts 17:30. “God…commands all men to REPENT. Where is faith in this verse? Why didn’t he say Godcommands all men to BELIEVE and repent?? Belief is not mentioned here nor is it included in what God commands, so that ( according to your logic) makes repentance the ONLY thing that God commands. All of This is VERY STRONG EVIDENCE that REPENTANCE IS what saves us —not faith. I mean, look, 5 verses that say “repentance” is the answer to ‘what must we do?’ Repentance is what converts us and blots out our sins,; Jesus’s own words say we’ll be lost if we don’t; and God clearly DEMANDS it, Those verses are powerful!! Aside from proving baptism is un- necessary, this sounds an awful lot like Faith ALONE is a false doctrine. Are you going to spend LONG explanations about grammar and cite men to try to “EXPLAIN AWAY” ALL of these scriptures? ”Bear with me, I’ve got 3 more to go.
6)Matthew 10:32. Jesus says unless you CONFESS ME, I will not confess you. Why didn’t He say unless you BELIEVE in me, I will not confess you to my Father. Faith alone is all we need? Right? So it shouldn't make any difference whether I confess Jesus or not —just as long as I believe in Him ALONE. Yes, that is the way MAN thinks ( not God.) But He did not include faith in this verse —I mean the least He could have done was say “Unless you BELIEVE and confess… but He didn’t, so therefore faith us NOT NECESSARY TO HAVING Jesus confess us to The Father.

Continued in another post.

I don't know why you included me in this post. Every believer is baptized in the Holy Spirit, that is how Christ baptizes. Your inability to see nothing but water when the word "baptize" is used blinds you to the reality of Christ's work.

 

[sawdust]

I am sorry but I am interpreting that passage differently than you do. It says (much better than I am able to verbalize) "and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also-not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God"

You also don't seem to recognise that Noah and crew were baptized into the Ark, they were not submerged in water which is what the word baptize means, to immerse or submerge. The Ark is a symbol of Christ. We are now baptized into Christ, His death and life.

 

[DJT_47]

Faith alone doesn't save you

 

[sawdust]

Faith alone doesn't save you

Of course it doesn't, one needs grace. But that is not the issue when people talk of faith alone. They are referring to works as an addition to faith but if one has faith then one has works. They go together, that is the point James is making in his letter. One's faith is seen by their works, they are not added on but are the outworking of one's faith. Works without faith have no value.

 

[TrustandObey]

Oh, but I can and it’s a scripture that you should not disagree with because it is by your own definition. Mark 16:16 “He that believes ( faith) AND is baptized (work) shall be saved.” You object to baptism because YOU SAY it is a WORK and you refuse to believe we can be saved by works. But here it is—“faith and works” together equals salvation.

Now the ironic thing about this is that I agree with you that baptism is a work. The difference is that you think it is a work of man and I believe it is a work of God ( like faith in John 6).

Would you like to answer Jesus’s question to the Pharisees? John’s baptism, was it from heaven or from men? What is YOUR answer.

And after you answer that question, please answer this one: THE BAPTISM OF JESUS, THE BAPTISM THAT IS IN HIS NAME, IS IT FROM HEAVEN OR FROM MEN?
Adstar does not seem to want to answer that question. How about YOU?

This is why I come to forums like this. This is a great point, thank you.

 

[mailmandan]

Mailman, Your answer to Mark 16:16 is wrong since baptism is only for BELIEVERS” Acts 8:37. You know it was UN-necessary for Jesus to say “He who does not believe and is not baptized.” If you don't believe, baptism is out of the question. The bottom line is, if you want to know how to be saved, read the first part of the verse. If you want to know how to be lost read the second part.

Baptism is only for BELIEVERS yet there have been numerous folks over the years (especially folks who attend various false religions and cults) who have been water baptized but don't truly BELIEVE unto salvation. Now these folks may believe "mental assent" in the existence of Jesus Christ and in certain historical facts about Him, but they do not believe in/have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. (Acts 10:43; 16:31; Romans 1:16; 3:22-26; 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9 etc..). These folks get water baptized anyway because they are trusting in baptism for salvation but it's in vain.

You are really hurting and grasping at straws to think that your man-made explanation for the last part WIPE’S OUT or makes the first part of that verse a lie. Because that’s what you are saying—that Jesus lied when He said “He that believes and is baptized will be saved.” Since you say that is not true, what are you doing but calling Jesus the Son of God a liar.

Don't be so dramatic. The first part of the verse is not a lie and if he who believes will be saved (John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26) then he who believes and is baptized will be saved as well. Now show me where Jesus said, "whoever is not baptized will be condemned? I'll be waiting. I would never call Jesus a liar, but I will call out folks who fail to properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching their conclusion on doctrine. *If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then we would expect Jesus to mention it in the following verses. (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26) Yet what is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions NINE different times in each of these complete statements *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics. John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Mark 16:16 is TRUE, EVERY WORD of it. What Jesus said is true- it takes both faith and baptism to be saved. He put baptism BEFORE salvation—not after salvation.

Jesus clarified the first clause with the second ..but he who does not believe will be condemned. So, it's the lack of belief that causes condemnation and not the lack of baptism, so it does not take both faith and baptism to be saved. Numerous passages of scripture say we are saved through belief/faith with no mention of baptism, so Mark 16:16(a) is general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized.

That verse remains true, regardless of whether you believe it or not, whether you ACCEPT it or not. All you are doing by trying to explain it away is proving the Son of God is a liar. Mark 16:16 is too plain and too damaging to “faith only” doctrine for me to worry about your puny attempt to get rid of it.

Mark 16:16(b) and John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26 remain true whether you believe it or not. The truth is not hard to understand. It's just hard for you to ACCEPT because of your biased church doctrine. I'm not explaining anything away. I am properly harmonizing scripture with scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine to avoid contradictions. You only care about upholding your pet doctrine and not about contradictions. I don't teach faith only per James 2:24 which is a bare profession of faith. (James 2:14) I teach salvation through faith in Jesus Christ alone. (Romans 3:22-26; 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) Learn the difference. I am not calling the Son of God a liar and I don't appreciate your slander.

you haven’t proved anything by “pulling out” 9 scriptures that talk about “faith” but do not mention baptism. Are you “hurting” or what! I can pull out 9 more scriptures that are directly connected to salvation and show that NONE OF THEM mention “faith” . Does that PROVE that we are Not saved by faith? Does that mean faith is not necessary? I guess it does if your argument is true. So you have just disproved your own doctrine!! Here are 9 MORE scriptures that by YOUR REASONING “ prove” Faith is not necessary for salvation.

You remain confused and you apparently don't seem to understand that repentance and faith are two sides to the same coin. Where you have one you must have the other.

1) Acts 2:38. Here we have people specifically asking WHAT MUST WE DO TO BE SAVED? And what is Peter’s answer ? Did he say Believe? NO! He said “repent and be baptized.”!! By your logic, I’ve just proven “faith” is not required. It’s not mentioned here at all, so it is not necessarily. ( yes, I know, this is silly, but, this is THEIR argument—not mine.)). If faith is absolutely required for salvation, then you would expect Peter to have mentioned it; ESPECIALLY since this is the answer to “what must we do to be SAVED.” But no, faith is not included in his answer so that “proves” it does not save us. It is not in God’s plan of salvation.

Peter does not need to mention faith here because when repentance is mentioned faith is implied or assumed because they are two sides to the same coin. (Acts 20:21) When only faith is mentioned but not repentance, repentance is already implied or assumed because we must first repent (change our mind) before we can place our faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. Again, two sides to the same coin.

2) Luke 13:3. Jesus is talking and He says “ unless you REPENT, you will all perish. IF FAITH IS NECESSARY to salvation why didn’t He say “Unless you Believe” you will all perish?

Well unless you repent you will not place your faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation and be saved so faith is implied or assumed because the new direction of this change of mind in repentance here is faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. Say it with me, TWO SIDES TO THE SAME COIN.

It doesn’t matter that he may have said that faith saves us in OTHER scriptures. He doesn’t say that HERE, so that means that it does NOT save us, and is not necessary to salvation.

Once you come to understand that the new direction of this change of mind in repentance is faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation, then you will understand that faith not being mentioned is not a problem because faith and repentance are two sides to the same coin, so faith is already implied or assumed.

God also says that baptism is necessary in Acts 2:38 and that it even SAVES US, in 1 Peter 3:21 but YOU say that just because it is not in the verses about faith that you quoted, you deduct that it does NOT save us and in fact is not necessary to salvation.

That is your eisegesis and Acts 2:38 in the Greek tells a different story and in 1 Peter 3:21, you only read the first part of the verse and ignore the rest which tells a different story as well. The only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 13:38-39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 20:21; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*

No, Jesus didn’t say that unless you believe you will perish, , He said Unless you REPENT you will perish. Where is Faith in that verse?

Faith is already implied or assumed because we must first repent before we can believe/have faith. Simple!

It’s not there!! So Faith can’t be necessary to salvation. And, by the way, I guess this means we are saved by REPENTANCE ONLY”!! I can ADD the word ONLY to that verse can’t I? After all, you add it to EVERY verse that has anything to do with faith. So if it works for faith, it should work for repentance, too.

I understand your confusion and frustration. Your CoC indoctrination runs deep.

CONTINUED..

 

[mailmandan]

Beckworth said: 3) Jesus says the same thing in Luke 13:5. Jesus REPEATS His teaching on the necessity of REPENTANCE WITHOUT FAITH!! If faith was necessary for salvation then we would expect Him to mention it at least ONCE, but NO! Jesus says repentance is ALL that is needed and to make sure we get it, He EMPHASIZES it by saying it TWICE!!!! I believe MY choice of scriptures are STRONGER than your choice of scriptures (lol).

Where salvation is in view, repentance actually "precedes" saving faith in Christ and is not a totally separate act from faith. It is actually the same coin with two sides. Repentance is on one side (what you change your mind about) and faith in Christ is on the positive side, (the new direction of this change of mind). Repentance and faith are two sides of the same experience of receiving Christ.

In the context of Luke 13:3, Jesus challenged the people's notion that they were morally superior to those who suffered in such catastrophes. He called all to repent or perish. For some people though, prior to coming to the end result of repentance in receiving salvation (faith in Christ), they must change their minds about other specific things in order to get there. Repentance, metanoia, focuses on changing one's mind about his previous concept of God (as in Acts 17:30) and disbelief in God or false beliefs (polytheism and idolatry) about God (1 Thessalonians 1:9). On the other hand, this change of mind, focuses on the new direction that change about God must ultimately take, namely, trusting in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

4) Acts 3:19. REPENT and be converted that your sins may be blotted out!” Why didn’t he say “BELIEVE” and be converted that your sins may be blotted out? That is, if faith only is what saves you? , if faith alone is all we need to be saved, then how can repentance convert us and blot out our sins???? This proves( according to you) that, not only is faith not necessary to salvation, but also proves that no one is saved by “FAITH ALONE.” According to you, we can’t be saved by both faith AND repentance, so this verse plainly teaches that we are saved by repentance ALONE because faith is not even mentioned here.

My goodness you are so confused! He did not have to say believe because when we repent (change our mind) the new direction of that change of mind is BELIEVE. Two sides to the same coin. Faith alone does not imply that repentance is made void. When you hear a genuine believer say we are saved by faith alone, we mean we are saved the moment that we place our faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation (apart from works which follow, including water baptism - Acts 10:43-47).

5) Acts 17:30. “God…commands all men to REPENT. Where is faith in this verse? Why didn’t he say Godcommands all men to BELIEVE and repent?? Belief is not mentioned here nor is it included in what God commands, so that ( according to your logic) makes repentance the ONLY thing that God commands. All of This is VERY STRONG EVIDENCE that REPENTANCE IS what saves us —not faith.

Once you finally figure out that repentance is a "change of mind" and the new direction of that change of mind is belief/faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation and that repentance and faith are two sides to the same coin, all of your confusion will melt away.

I mean, look, 5 verses that say “repentance” is the answer to ‘what must we do?’ Repentance is what converts us and blots out our sins,; Jesus’s own words say we’ll be lost if we don’t; and God clearly DEMANDS it, Those verses are powerful!! Aside from proving baptism is un- necessary, this sounds an awful lot like Faith ALONE is a false doctrine.

I'm sure that faith alone would sound like a false doctrine to those who don't under what genuine believers mean by faith alone and also don't understand that repentance "precedes" faith and is a change of mind and the new direction of that change of mind is faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. Two sides to the same coin. Now folks in the CoC seem to reverse the scriptural order of repentance and faith and basically redefine repent as moral self-reformation, which would explain a lot of your confusion. Folks in the CoC also seem to believe that ALL belief is the same "except for the lack of good works" and cannot seem to grasp a deeper belief/faith that trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation.

Are you going to spend LONG explanations about grammar and cite men to try to “EXPLAIN AWAY” ALL of these scriptures? ”Bear with me, I’ve got 3 more to go.

Properly understand Greek grammar and harmonizing scripture with scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine is not explaining scripture away.

6)Matthew 10:32. Jesus says unless you CONFESS ME, I will not confess you. Why didn’t He say unless you BELIEVE in me, I will not confess you to my Father. Faith alone is all we need? Right? So it shouldn't make any difference whether I confess Jesus or not —just as long as I believe in Him ALONE. Yes, that is the way MAN thinks ( not God.) But He did not include faith in this verse —I mean the least He could have done was say “Unless you BELIEVE and confess… but He didn’t, so therefore faith us NOT NECESSARY TO HAVING Jesus confess us to The Father.

In regard to Matthew 10:32-33, the broader context of this passage relates to the fact that the Pharisees had continuously denied Jesus while the disciples spoke about Him everywhere they went. We may sum up His teaching this way: "Whoever confesses me before men (such as you disciples), I will confess him before my Father in heaven. But whoever denies me before men (like these Pharisees do on every occasion they get), I will deny him before my Father in heaven.

Those who confess Jesus are those who recognize Him as being the true Messiah and trust in Him as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation. Those who deny Jesus (and those who give mere lip service confession) but refuse to trust in Him alone for salvation place themselves beyond any possibility of salvation, since salvation is found only in Him. (John 3:5,16,18; 10:9; 14:6; Acts 4:12)

The word for "deny" is an aorist tense. This points to the fact that Jesus is not talking about a single instance of denial (as was the case with Peter, who actually denied Him three times - Luke 22:34), but is referring to life in its entirety. Hence, the person who throughout his life denies Christ (as was typically the case with the Pharisees and includes unbelievers who may even give mere "lip service confession" - Matthew 7:21-23 but lack saving faith in Christ) will be denied by Christ before the Father. I do understand your confusion.

Continued in another post.

Looking forward to it.

 

[mailmandan]

Faith alone doesn't save you

Faith that remains alone (barren of works) does not save you because that is not genuine faith but a bare profession of faith. (James 2:14) Faith that trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation saves you. (Romans 3:24-26; 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) Learn the difference.

 

[mailmandan]

In response to Post #106, Part 2.

Here is scripture # 7 That “proves (?)” that Faith has nothing to do with salvation because it is not mentioned in this (and all of the other) verses. According to Mailman.)

1 Peter 3:21. Here the apostle Peter says, guided by the Holy Spirit, that baptism saves us. Now, Mailman says that is a lie. You can’t actually believe what PETER says here. He MUST deny this very plain statement from God because if it is true, then it destroys His doctrine of salvation by faith only. But then he says if baptism is not mentioned in a verse that is teaching about faith, then that means, baptism is not necessary to salvation, thus protecting his faith only doctrine. So, if that is true, then, here is a verse that is teaching about baptism, but It does not mention faith. What should I believe about that? It MUST mean that since faith is not mentioned in this verse then faith is not necessary for salvation. After all, it only says baptism saves you, it does NOT say that faith saves you. That also means that I can ADD the word ONLY to that verse and say we are saved by baptism ONLY; or we are saved by baptism ALONE. This is what he does with faith; why can’t I do that with baptism????And to show how wrong that practice is, I can also follow that line of thinking with “repentance.” We’ve already seen 5 very strong scriptures from God that emphasizes the necessity of repentance. Would it be wrong for me to teach that we are SAVED BY REPENTANCE ALONE? Is it wrong for me to teach that, but it is NOT WRONG for them to teach SALVATION BY FAITH ALONE? They are BOTH wrong and for the same reasons! Because Jesus, The Son of God says and teaches that they are both necessary. Mark 16:16 and Luke 13:3., Acts 17:30.
8) Acts 22:16- Ananias tells Saul to be baptized, and WASH AWAY YOUR SINS, calling on the name of the Lord. Where is faith? It’s not in that verse. Why didn’t Ananias tell Saul to believe and wash away your sins? He did not even know Saul, had never met him before. How does he know if Saul believes or not?? In fact, all he knows about Saul is that he is an UNBELIEVER who has been persecuting Christians. That’s what he says to God. So why doesn’t he tell him to believe? I guess that means faith does not save you. Faith is not mentioned here, so that means it is not necessary to WASH AWAY YOUR SINS. All you need to do is be baptized. You don’t have to believe. It’s not in that verse is it? Then it is not necessary for salvation Surely, Ananias would have mentioned it if it was necessary. ( this is NOT my thinking but Mailman’s belief)
And finally, # 9-1 Cor. 1. Paul simply lists 2 things that are NECESSARY, he says MUST BE before you can call yourself a “Christian” after Christ. One, is Christ must have been CRUCIFIED for you and second, you MUST HAVE BEEN BAPTIZED INTO HIM. He doesn’t even mention faith! Where is faith? It’s not there. That means, by Mailman’s argument that faith, since it is not in those verses cannot be necessary to call yourself a “Christian.” All we need to do, according to 1 Cor. 1 is be baptized into Christ. That is all that chapter says we must do to be a Christian. Faith is not mentioned. It is not there. And we can support what Paul is saying in 1 Cor. 1 with what he says in Galatians 3:27 that says “As many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.” So, in order to call yourself after Christ, you must be baptized into Him and put Him on. Obviously, faith has nothing to do with it because faith is not mentioned in any of those scriptures. I ask you to have an honest heart. You see how this argument against baptism is foolish and proves nothing. If it doesn’t prove faith is unnecessary, then the same argumentation does NOT prove baptism is unnecessary.

Wash, rinse, repeat. You remain thoroughly confused and I see that you continue to resort to slander. Sad. You fail to read verses in context and properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching your conclusion on doctrine. I already thoroughly refuted your arguments about repentance alone and faith alone in posts #168 and #169 and I also already covered (Mark 16:16; Acts 22:16; Galatians 3:27; 1 Peter 3:21) in posts #60, #106 and #108.

 

[decipher]

In order to be saved you have to be chosen, be free from sin, and perfected. That describes Baptism in the Name of the Father who chooses you, and grants repentance for sins committed. It also describes Baptism in the Name of the Son, who erases your sins by having faith in him. And lastly, it describes Baptism in the Name of the Holy Spirit who acts as a portal through which both Father and Son can enter your being and change your motivation for living from love of self to love of God first and all others as you love yourself (which is Jesus's two commandments upon which all the commandments are based on) . When this happens, your will be perfected because you will be obeying the Spirit of the Law. Being filled with this Divine Love is a state of being. God will not allow people who continue to sin into His Kingdom. 1 Cor 13 explains that it doesn't matter what good deeds you do if you don't do them with love in your heart.

 

[decipher]

1 John 4: 12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and His love us perfected in us.
1 John 4: 16-18 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love, and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgement, because as he is, so are we in this world. There is no fear in love, but perfect love casteth out fear, because fear hath punishment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
John 13: 34-35 A new commandment I give unto you, that ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Faith alone doesn't save you

Your right,

Grace does. Through faith. Not of works. lest anyone should boast.

We are not saved by faith we are saved by Grace

it is by faith we recieve the gift of life

 

[decipher]

Your right,

Grace does. Through faith. Not of works. lest anyone should boast.

We are not saved by faith we are saved by Grace

it is by faith we recieve the gift of life

The gift of God is His Grace which involves the granting of faith to individuals. This granting of faith is not necessarily instantaneous. It works its way in time through the complexities of each individual's life. This gift begins with the realization of our imperfection and repentance for sins committed. This gift leads to the greatest gift of all which is Jesus Christ.

 

[sawdust]

The gift of God is His Grace which involves the granting of faith to individuals. This granting of faith is not necessarily instantaneous. It works its way in time through the complexities of each individual's life. This gift begins with the realization of our imperfection and repentance for sins committed. This gift leads to the greatest gift of all which is Jesus Christ.

The gift given is eternal life by means of God's grace working through faith.

John 3:15
that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.

It is not time that increases one's faith, it is believing the word and applying it to one's life.

James 1:22
But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.

 

[Beckworth]

Here is a story: A man goes to the DOCTOR. He is not having any health problems. He’s just going for his yearly wellness check. The doctor discovers that he has a small, malignant brain tumor. Surgery is necessary.
The man goes to see a SURGEON. The surgeon removes most of the tumor, but was not able to get it all. Chemotherapy is needed.
While in the hospital recovering from his brain surgery, it is “touch and go”. He almost dies, but the excellent medical staff of the HOSPITAL manages to pull him through.
After his recovery from the surgery. He begins 9 weeks of CHEMOTHERAPY. The chemotherapy successfully removes the rest of his cancer. He is now well and cancer free.

You may be wondering what this has to do with this post. Here is the question. WHO/WHAT SAVED THIS MAN’s LIFE? Was it the doctor? The surgeon? The hospital? The chemotherapy? Obviously, it was ALL of them. Each person and each step played a part in this man’s recovery. He would not have gotten well or made it out of this ALIVE if he had left out even 1 part of the process.
If the doctor had not FOUND the tumor, he would have died. If the surgeon had not REMOVED the tumor he would have died, If the HOSPITAL had not been there during his recovery, he would have died. And without the CHEMOTHERAPY , he would have died.
This was his treatment plan to remove the cancer and give him life!


Likewise, (do you see the parallel?) in religion, we are NOT saved by just ONE. thing. That’s why we have so much CONTROVERSY and bickering about WHAT SAVES US! Even on this post we have one person saying we are saved by FAITH ALONE and another taking exception to that , saying no, our salvation is strictly by God’s GRACE. Then you have the problem of how to get repentance in there. We know it is necessary to salvation ( there’s just too much damaging scripture to deny it) so, some try to put repentance BEFORE faith. Which is not logical because repentance is not ONLY changing your mind. The Holy Spirit says that repentance is “godly sorrow.” 2 Cor. 7:9-10. It is impossible to feel sorry about something WITHOUT BELIEVING in the thing you are sorry for. You can’t be sorry for your sins first, before you even believe in Jesus and that you have sins. Belief must come first in order for us to have something to feel sorry about. So, repentance ( godly sorrow) cannot come BEFORE faith. YES, repentance is a change of mind, but WITHOUT FAITH, that is just the “sorrow of the world”. 2 Cor. 7:10. That is not Bible repentance. Bible repentance is “godly sorrow”. Google it. “Godly sorrow is a deep grief for sin and …comes from a realization that sin has offended God’s holiness and violated His will. You can’t have GODLY SORROW with out having faith FIRST. To put repentance before faith is a desperate effort by false teachers to save the doctrine of “faith alone “ salvation. You can see their dilemma if repentance comes as a TESULT of faith, meaning AFTER faith, and we are saved by faith alone. Then repentance has nothing to do with our salvation. Acts 2:38, Acts 3:19, Acts 17:30, Luke 13;3. They are saying that to save an erroneous doctrine.

Teaching that faith INCLUDES. repentance is another effort to save their false doctrine. Where is the scripture that says that?? We must have book, chapter, and verse for what we believe or we are building on “sand” and not “rock.” Don’t trust your soul’s salvation to what someone “says” with no solid evidence. Scripture does not teach that faith includes repentance.

The Bible says we are saved by several things—not just ONE thing.
We are saved by GRACE. Ephesians 2:8;
We are saved by the NAME of Jesus Acts
Acts 4:22;
We are saved by His BLOOD Rom. 5:9;
We are saved by His DEATH, Rom. 5:10;
We are saved by CONFESSION, Rom. 10:10
WE are saved by the GOSPEL, 1 Cor. 15:1-2;
We are saved by FAITH, John 3:16;
We are saved by BAPTISM, 1 Peter 3:21;
We are saved by God’s MERCY, Titus 3:5;
We are saved by REPENTANCE, Acts 3:19;
We are saved by HOPE, Romans 8:24.

God, the Holy Spirit plainly says in The Bible that we are saved by at least ELEVEN different things. BUT, you have men that say, not only are we saved by just ONE THING, but by ONLY one thing. That means they are DENYING 99% of what the Bible says about salvation. Can’t you see how wrong that is? Aren’t we concerned that we have and believe the “truth” of the Bible? Does Revelation 22:18-19 scare us? I’m asking you to please consider ALL that the Bible says about salvation. And not just believe it, but accept it as “truth.” God does not lie.
Just like the man in our story was saved by ALL of the steps taken in his healing, even so, WE ARE SAVED BY ALL THE THINGS STATED in these verses. WE ARE NOT SAVED BY JUST ONE THING. Please don’t be deceived; it’s a lie.

 

[Lamar]

Here is a story: A man goes to the DOCTOR. He is not having any health problems. He’s just going for his yearly wellness check. The doctor discovers that he has a small, malignant brain tumor. Surgery is necessary.
The man goes to see a SURGEON. The surgeon removes most of the tumor, but was not able to get it all. Chemotherapy is needed.
While in the hospital recovering from his brain surgery, it is “touch and go”. He almost dies, but the excellent medical staff of the HOSPITAL manages to pull him through.
After his recovery from the surgery. He begins 9 weeks of CHEMOTHERAPY. The chemotherapy successfully removes the rest of his cancer. He is now well and cancer free.

You may be wondering what this has to do with this post. Here is the question. WHO/WHAT SAVED THIS MAN’s LIFE? Was it the doctor? The surgeon? The hospital? The chemotherapy? Obviously, it was ALL of them. Each person and each step played a part in this man’s recovery. He would not have gotten well or made it out of this ALIVE if he had left out even 1 part of the process.
If the doctor had not FOUND the tumor, he would have died. If the surgeon had not REMOVED the tumor he would have died, If the HOSPITAL had not been there during his recovery, he would have died. And without the CHEMOTHERAPY , he would have died.
This was his treatment plan to remove the cancer and give him life!


Likewise, (do you see the parallel?) in religion, we are NOT saved by just ONE. thing. That’s why we have so much CONTROVERSY and bickering about WHAT SAVES US! Even on this post we have one person saying we are saved by FAITH ALONE and another taking exception to that , saying no, our salvation is strictly by God’s GRACE. Then you have the problem of how to get repentance in there. We know it is necessary to salvation ( there’s just too much damaging scripture to deny it) so, some try to put repentance BEFORE faith. Which is not logical because repentance is not ONLY changing your mind. The Holy Spirit says that repentance is “godly sorrow.” 2 Cor. 7:9-10. It is impossible to feel sorry about something WITHOUT BELIEVING in the thing you are sorry for. You can’t be sorry for your sins first, before you even believe in Jesus and that you have sins. Belief must come first in order for us to have something to feel sorry about. So, repentance ( godly sorrow) cannot come BEFORE faith. YES, repentance is a change of mind, but WITHOUT FAITH, that is just the “sorrow of the world”. 2 Cor. 7:10. That is not Bible repentance. Bible repentance is “godly sorrow”. Google it. “Godly sorrow is a deep grief for sin and …comes from a realization that sin has offended God’s holiness and violated His will. You can’t have GODLY SORROW with out having faith FIRST. To put repentance before faith is a desperate effort by false teachers to save the doctrine of “faith alone “ salvation. You can see their dilemma if repentance comes as a TESULT of faith, meaning AFTER faith, and we are saved by faith alone. Then repentance has nothing to do with our salvation. Acts 2:38, Acts 3:19, Acts 17:30, Luke 13;3. They are saying that to save an erroneous doctrine.

Teaching that faith INCLUDES. repentance is another effort to save their false doctrine. Where is the scripture that says that?? We must have book, chapter, and verse for what we believe or we are building on “sand” and not “rock.” Don’t trust your soul’s salvation to what someone “says” with no solid evidence. Scripture does not teach that faith includes repentance.

The Bible says we are saved by several things—not just ONE thing.
We are saved by GRACE. Ephesians 2:8;
We are saved by the NAME of Jesus Acts
Acts 4:22;
We are saved by His BLOOD Rom. 5:9;
We are saved by His DEATH, Rom. 5:10;
We are saved by CONFESSION, Rom. 10:10
WE are saved by the GOSPEL, 1 Cor. 15:1-2;
We are saved by FAITH, John 3:16;
We are saved by BAPTISM, 1 Peter 3:21;
We are saved by God’s MERCY, Titus 3:5;
We are saved by REPENTANCE, Acts 3:19;
We are saved by HOPE, Romans 8:24.

God, the Holy Spirit plainly says in The Bible that we are saved by at least ELEVEN different things. BUT, you have men that say, not only are we saved by just ONE THING, but by ONLY one thing. That means they are DENYING 99% of what the Bible says about salvation. Can’t you see how wrong that is? Aren’t we concerned that we have and believe the “truth” of the Bible? Does Revelation 22:18-19 scare us? I’m asking you to please consider ALL that the Bible says about salvation. And not just believe it, but accept it as “truth.” God does not lie.
Just like the man in our story was saved by ALL of the steps taken in his healing, even so, WE ARE SAVED BY ALL THE THINGS STATED in these verses. WE ARE NOT SAVED BY JUST ONE THING. Please don’t be deceived; it’s a lie.

Thank you for your well thought out words. Your effort is noticed.

 

[sawdust]

We are saved by the NAME of Jesus Acts
Acts 4:22;
We are saved by His BLOOD Rom. 5:9;
We are saved by His DEATH, Rom. 5:10;
We are saved by CONFESSION, Rom. 10:10
WE are saved by the GOSPEL, 1 Cor. 15:1-2;
We are saved by FAITH, John 3:16;
We are saved by BAPTISM, 1 Peter 3:21;
We are saved by God’s MERCY, Titus 3:5;
We are saved by REPENTANCE, Acts 3:19;
We are saved by HOPE, Romans 8:24.

And the reason we have all those things to save us is because the Lord God is gracious. Without grace, there is naught to be had.

 

[mailmandan]

The Bible says we are saved by several things—not just ONE thing.
We are saved by GRACE. Ephesians 2:8;
We are saved by the NAME of Jesus Acts 4:22;
We are saved by His BLOOD Rom. 5:9;
We are saved by His DEATH, Rom. 5:10;
We are saved by CONFESSION, Rom. 10:10
WE are saved by the GOSPEL, 1 Cor. 15:1-2;
We are saved by FAITH, John 3:16;
We are saved by BAPTISM, 1 Peter 3:21;
We are saved by God’s MERCY, Titus 3:5;
We are saved by REPENTANCE, Acts 3:19;
We are saved by HOPE, Romans 8:24.

NOBODY is saying that we are saved by just ONE thing. That is not what genuine believers mean by FAITH ALONE. We mean that we are saved the very moment that we place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) IN JESUS CHRIST ALONE FOR SALVATION. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) That does not negate the rest being involved, yet water baptism "follows" salvation through belief/faith and is not the instrumental means by which we obtain salvation along with faith. (Acts 10:43-47; 15:7-9; Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 1:17) Salvation by water baptism negates salvation through belief/faith. (John 3:15,16,18; Acts 10:43; 13:38-39; 16:31; Romans 3:22-26; 5:1; Philippians 3:9 etc..).

If it was not for God's grace and mercy we would not even have the opportunity to be saved through faith in Jesus Christ. Receiving salvation through faith in Jesus Christ is not of ourselves but is the unmerited gift of God. Grace is getting what we don't deserve (Ephesians 2:8,9) and mercy is not getting what we do deserve. (Titus 3:5) The name of Jesus, the blood of Christ, the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (gospel) is all of Jesus and is the very means of our salvation. Faith is the instrumental means by which we obtain salvation. Repentance is a "change of mind" and the new direction of this change of mind is faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. (Acts 20:21) Two sides to the same coin. Confession is a confirmation of faith and not a work for salvation. The word of faith is in our mouth and in our heart TOGETHER (Romans 10:8-10) which is why we will be saved if we confess. Not two separate steps to salvation but chronologically together. If we have faith in Jesus Christ for salvation, then we have hope. Hebrews 11:1 - Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Please let me know if you have any questions.