Am I correct with my understanding of this? Faith in Jesus alone = salvation

[Beckworth]

I don't understand the thinking of the works salvationist.. The Bible makes it clear all our good works are as filthy rags..

(Isaiah 64:6) "But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away."

Now there will be those who will be called Great in the kingdom of Heaven and those who will be called least in the kingdom of heaven and our good works may indeed play a part in that.. But actual Salvation.. Our works play no role in us actually entering into Gods perfect eternal existence.. I believe those who do more good works will build up more treasures in eternity more then others who have done less works.. But when people make their works part of the Mix in then attaining eternity with God i believe they have failed to trust completely in the sufficiency of the Atonement of the LORD Jesus to Redeem us. They are believing in another Gospel in another Jesus..

(Matthew 6:19-20) "¶ Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: {20} But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:"

Part of the problem here in understanding “faith and works” and how they work together in salvation (James 2:22) is not recognizing that baptism is not a work
of man, but is a WORK OF GOD—just as faith, repentance, and confession are all works of God—not works of men’s righteousness. So, Isaiah 64:6 in no way condemns baptism; since baptism is NOT OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS, but it is God’s righteousness. It is not OUR work—it is HIS work. This is proven in Colossians 2:12 “ buried with HIM in BAPTISM, in which you also were raised with Him through belief in the WORKING OF GOD.” BAPTISM IS A WORK OF GOD AND HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS—not a work of man and HIS righteousness.

Jesus asked a question 2000 years ago that is still valid today: Is the baptism of John from HEAVEN or from MEN? Matthew 21:25
Let me ask YOU the same question? Do you believe John’s baptism was from heaven or from men? In order for it to be a work of “our” righteousness, it would have to be from men. If it was from heaven, then it is a “WORK OF GOD” and His righteousness. Do you want to answer Jesus’s question? Is baptism from God or men?

The baptism of Jesus is surely more important than the baptism of John, especially now. The question needs to be asked, IS THE BAPTISM OF JESUS, IN THE NAME OF JESUS, FROM HEAVEN OR FROM MEN? Just for the record, I would like to know what you believe about that. Just a simple one word answer is all we need.

Here’s what we know: Jesus commanded baptism when He gave the great commission to His apostles in Matt. 28:18-19. HE is the one who tells them to go into all the world and baptize. That means it ORIGINATED with GOD—not man. In order for baptism to be a work of man, it must have originated with man; He must be the creator of it; It must come from man—not God. Baptism did not originate, or come from man. Baptism came from God. Therefore it is a WORK OF GOD. It is not a work of man. Therefore, also, it is NOT a work of OUR righteousness. It is a work of God’s righteousness. With baptism proven to be a work of God, all of your arguments about “salvation without works” is meaningless.

JOHN 6:28-29 some disciples asked Jesus, “What shall we do that we may WORK THE WORKS OF GOD.” MOST “faith only” believers don’t recognize the fact that there are WORKS OF GOD. They portray ALL WORKS as “bad” and they say “works” have NOTHING TO DO WITH SALVATION. LOOK AT VERSE 29.
“This is the WORK OF GOD that you BELIEVE.” Did you know that FAITH IS A WORK OF GOD? Jesus called it a WORK. Paul also called it a WORK. 1 Thess.1:3 and 2 Thess. 1:11. If Faith is a work of God, then so is “repentance” a work of God. Did repentance originate, or come from man or God? If Faith and repentance are works of God, then so is “confession” a work of God. Did confession originate with man? Did MAN command repentance or did God command it? Acts 3:19, Luke 13:3, Acts 17:30. Did God command confession or man? Matthew 10:32, Roman’s 10:10. These are all works of God; they originated with God and they are COMMANDED by God in His word. According to the scriptures, they are all coupled with SALVATION. I believe that makes them necessary. The believers in “Faith only” deny that they have anything to do with your salvation— they can’t “IF” you are saved by faith ALONE. ALONE means without anything else. So their doctrine is that you are NOT saved by repentance—even though it is a work of God and He commanded it in Acts 17:30, and He said without it you will perish Luke 13:3, and Peter listed it as the first thing to do to be saved in Acts 2:38; even though God tells you in all of those scriptures and more that you must repent for salvation, they still say, “no” you are ONLY saved by faith alone and nothing else. Now, re-read those last 3 or 4 sentences and replace the word l”repentance with the word “confession” because they don’t believe that has anything to do with your salvation either.
To be continued.

 

[Webers.Home]

.
● John 3:14-15 . . Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of
Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.

That incident is on record at Num 21:5-9

Long story short: Moses' people became weary of eating manna all the time at
every meal. But instead of courteously, and diplomatically, petitioning their divine
benefactor for a different diet, they became indignant and confrontational; angrily
demanding better accommodations.

In response to their insolence, and their ingratitude for His providence; God sent a
swarm of deadly poisonous snakes amongst them; which began striking people;
and every strike was 100% fatal, no exceptions.

After a number of people died, the rest came to their senses and begged Moses to
intercede. In reply; The Lord instructed Moses to fashion a replica of the snakes
and hoist it up on a pole in plain view so that everyone dying from venom could
look to it for relief.

The key issue here is that the replica was the only God-given remedy for the
people's bites-- not sacrifices and offerings, not tithing, not church attendance, not
scapulars, not confession, not holy days of obligation, not the Sabbath, not
rosaries, not weeping, not the golden rule, not charity, not Bible study, yeshiva,
catechism, and/or Sunday school, not self denial, not vows of poverty, not the Ten
Commandments, not the Eucharist, nor even one's ideology of choice, i.e. it
wouldn't have mattered whether somebody was Muslim, Hindu, Jew, Buddhist,
Catholic, Protestant, Baha'i, Atheist, Agnostic, Pagan, or whatever-- the replica was
it; nothing else would suffice to save their lives.

As an allegory, the replica speaks of Christ's crucifixion for the sins of the world as
the only God-given protection from the judgment that's coming.

FAQ: How might one go about looking to Christ like those folks back then looked to
that replica?

REPLY: I recommend RSVP.

Find a quiet place; anywhere will do. Cover you face with your hands-- doing so will
give you a sense of connection --and tell God, under your breath or out loud if you
like, that you have never yet measured up to His standards and you're pretty sure
you never will. Tell Him you would like to take advantage of His son's death to
protect yourself from retribution.
_

 

[Beckworth]

“WORKS SALVATION?” Part 2

If Faith is a work of God according to John 6:28-29, 1 Thess 1:3 and 1 Thess. 1:11, then so is REPENTANCE a work if God. And if Faith is a work of God, so is CONFESSION a work of God. And if Faith is a work of God, so is BAPTISM a work of God. Baptism originated with God MATTHEW 28:18-19, baptism is COMMANDED by God Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16, Acts 10:48. It did not come from or originate with MAN. It was NOT COMMANDED by man, it was COMMANDED by God . God tells us it SAVES US 1 Peter 3:21.

So, I would have to agree with Adstar, yes, we are NOT SAVED BY OUR WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS. We are saved by THE WORKS OF GOD, the WORKS that He created for us to do, the COMMANDS that He declared we should obey —like God’s work of FAITH, Mark 16:16, and His work of REPENTANCE Acts 16:30, and His work of CONFESSION, Romans 10:10, and His work of BAPTISM. 1 Peter 3:21. These are God’s works. They are the works of RIGHTEOUSNESS by which we are saved.

 

[Adstar]

Part of the problem here in understanding “faith and works” and how they work together in salvation (James 2:22) is not recognizing that baptism is not a work
of man, but is a WORK OF GOD—just as faith, repentance, and confession are all works of God—not works of men’s righteousness. So, Isaiah 64:6 in no way condemns baptism; since baptism is NOT OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS, but it is God’s righteousness. It is not OUR work—it is HIS work. This is proven in Colossians 2:12 “ buried with HIM in BAPTISM, in which you also were raised with Him through belief in the WORKING OF GOD.” BAPTISM IS A WORK OF GOD AND HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS—not a work of man and HIS righteousness.

Jesus asked a question 2000 years ago that is still valid today: Is the baptism of John from HEAVEN or from MEN? Matthew 21:25
Let me ask YOU the same question? Do you believe John’s baptism was from heaven or from men? In order for it to be a work of “our” righteousness, it would have to be from men. If it was from heaven, then it is a “WORK OF GOD” and His righteousness. Do you want to answer Jesus’s question? Is baptism from God or men?

The baptism of Jesus is surely more important than the baptism of John, especially now. The question needs to be asked, IS THE BAPTISM OF JESUS, IN THE NAME OF JESUS, FROM HEAVEN OR FROM MEN? Just for the record, I would like to know what you believe about that. Just a simple one word answer is all we need.

Here’s what we know: Jesus commanded baptism when He gave the great commission to His apostles in Matt. 28:18-19. HE is the one who tells them to go into all the world and baptize. That means it ORIGINATED with GOD—not man. In order for baptism to be a work of man, it must have originated with man; He must be the creator of it; It must come from man—not God. Baptism did not originate, or come from man. Baptism came from God. Therefore it is a WORK OF GOD. It is not a work of man. Therefore, also, it is NOT a work of OUR righteousness. It is a work of God’s righteousness. With baptism proven to be a work of God, all of your arguments about “salvation without works” is meaningless.

JOHN 6:28-29 some disciples asked Jesus, “What shall we do that we may WORK THE WORKS OF GOD.” MOST “faith only” believers don’t recognize the fact that there are WORKS OF GOD. They portray ALL WORKS as “bad” and they say “works” have NOTHING TO DO WITH SALVATION. LOOK AT VERSE 29.
“This is the WORK OF GOD that you BELIEVE.” Did you know that FAITH IS A WORK OF GOD? Jesus called it a WORK. Paul also called it a WORK. 1 Thess.1:3 and 2 Thess. 1:11. If Faith is a work of God, then so is “repentance” a work of God. Did repentance originate, or come from man or God? If Faith and repentance are works of God, then so is “confession” a work of God. Did confession originate with man? Did MAN command repentance or did God command it? Acts 3:19, Luke 13:3, Acts 17:30. Did God command confession or man? Matthew 10:32, Roman’s 10:10. These are all works of God; they originated with God and they are COMMANDED by God in His word. According to the scriptures, they are all coupled with SALVATION. I believe that makes them necessary. The believers in “Faith only” deny that they have anything to do with your salvation— they can’t “IF” you are saved by faith ALONE. ALONE means without anything else. So their doctrine is that you are NOT saved by repentance—even though it is a work of God and He commanded it in Acts 17:30, and He said without it you will perish Luke 13:3, and Peter listed it as the first thing to do to be saved in Acts 2:38; even though God tells you in all of those scriptures and more that you must repent for salvation, they still say, “no” you are ONLY saved by faith alone and nothing else. Now, re-read those last 3 or 4 sentences and replace the word l”repentance with the word “confession” because they don’t believe that has anything to do with your salvation either.
To be continued.

Firstly you talk about the Works of God.. Yeah i totally agree, Gods works brings about our salvation, Jesus dying on the cross was a Work,, HIS work, Not our work. So if they are GODS WORKS they are not works WE DO... RIGHT? right.. So my stance is correct.. Non of the works we do plays any part in our salvation it is by faith alone in the message of Jesus and the Atonement that Jesus secured on the cross that we are saved..

Secondly the latter part of your post gives me Calvanist vibes.. Are you a calvinist beckworth..

 

[TishnTexas]

I applaud your sincerity and your honest heart. I, too, am very sincere in what I believe but we are probably not in agreement on “faith alone.” Please let me show you, by the scriptures, why. None of the verses most people quote about faith have the word “alone” in them. That is supplied by man—not God God and the Bible actually teach the opposite—we are not saved by anything ALONE. The Holy Spirit actually says that we are saved by several things. We are saved by faith, yes! But not faith alone; which is exactly what James 2.:24 says. Now men have made up all kinds of explanations to try to get around this verse because if it is true, then salvation by faith “alone” can’t be true.

The Bible also says we are saved by “repentance” Luke 13:3,&5. Also Acts 17:30. Most important, in Acts 2:37, the Jews onnPentecost asked Peter what they should do ( to be saved) and Peter says, “REPENT” and be baptized…for the remission of sins..” verse 38. So, Peter’s answer to “what must we do to be saved” is to REPENT and be baptized.

You made a good point when you pointed out that Ronan’s 10:8-10 says that we are saved by “confessing”. The Bible says we are. Even Jesus Himself said, “If you don’t confess me before men, I will not confess you before my Father.” Matthew 10:32. Do not reverse the order of faith and confession specified by the Holy Spirit. It was not an accident. It was put that way on purpose. . Think about it! What person in his right mind would confess “Christ” if they don’t believe in Him first?? Faith MUST come first in order for someone to confess Christ. And what are they going to confess about Christ if they don’t believe in Him first? That makes no sense. We also have the Bible approved example of the Ethiopian Eunuch CONFESSING his faith in Christ just before his baptism in Acts 8:37. This was how he was converted, saved, became a Christian. Look what he did. He believed, he repented, he confessed, and he was baptized.

The Bible also says BAPTISM saves us in 1 Peter 3:21. There are so many scriptures in the New Testament that plainly teach that Baptism saves and is necessary to salvation. Mark 16:16 Jesus Himself says that it takes both faith AND baptism to be saved. Does that sound like salvation by “faith alone”? Acts 2:38 says baptism is for the remission of sins; Acts 22:16 says that in baptism we “wash away our sins.” And of course 1 Peter 3:21 leaves no doubt—baptism saves us.

Psalms 119:160 tells us that the SUM of God’s word is TRUTH. Put it all together! God says that faith, repentance, confession, and baptism ALL save us. The doctrine of “faith alone” can’t be true. Let God be true and every man a liar. The doctrine of “faith alone” contradicts every scripture in this posts. And the reason you are having such a hard time understanding scriptures like Romans 10:9-10 and the reason you are needing to reverse the order of “faith” and “confession” is because the doctrine of Faith alone is not true; it is a false doctrine originating with Martin Luther and John Calvin in the 15th century. That’s 1500 years after the Holy Spirit wrote the Bible. It is a man made doctrine—not the doctrine of Christ.2 John 9

We are both sincere in what we believe, but being sincere is not enough. Saul of Tarsus was sincere in persecuting Christ—but he was sincerely wrong! The Bible is the word of God and it contains the Truth. It is right. This is not about winning an argument, it is about saving souls; mine and yours. God pleads with us to REASON with Him in Isaiah.

Prove this to yourself by looking at how people were saved in the Bible, after Jesus died on the cross. They all did the same thing—BELIEVED FIRST, then repented, confessed and in every example were baptized. Acts 2:37, Acts 8:12, Acts 22:16, Acts 10:48, Mark 16:16.

I agree with everything you state here but have one follow up question: Which baptism? Water or oil? I have been to several churches and they each teach their version is the correct one. Does it matter? Is a baptism a baptism and as long as your intent to be cleansed from sin either will be accepted? There are many instances of anointing with oil in the Old Testament but the New Testament references water baptism. Jesus didn't come to replace the Old Testament but to fulfil it so....

 

[Beckworth]

Firstly you talk about the Works of God.. Yeah i totally agree, Gods works brings about our salvation, Jesus dying on the cross was a Work,, HIS work, Not our work. So if they are GODS WORKS they are not works WE DO... RIGHT? right.. So my stance is correct.. Non of the works we do plays any part in our salvation it is by faith alone in the message of Jesus and the Atonement that Jesus secured on the cross that we are saved..

Secondly the latter part of your post gives me Calvanist vibes.. Are you a calvinist beckworth..

No. That’s not what the Bible says. I gave plenty of scripture to prove that God’s works are faith, repentance, confession, and baptism ( to name a few). These are all specifically coupled with SALVATION. John 6:29 proves that faith is a work ( along with the two I mentioned from Thessalonians). You said and I quote, “So if they are GOD’s works, they are not works WE DO…right?” WRONG. What about John 6:29 do you not understand? Faith is a WORK. Do we have to have faith? Do we have to believe? Yes, we do. THAT IS SOMETHING WE MUST DO. That is a “work of God” that Jesus says we must do to be saved. Mark 16:16. It’s not rocket science. REPENTANCE IS A WORK OF GOD. Do we have to repent?? Of course we do. So then repentance is a work that we must DO to be saved. Acts 17:30, Luke 13:3, Acts 3:19. CONFESSION is a work of God. Did God say confession is “unto salvation”? Yes He did Romans 10:10. Is confession a work of God. that we must DO? Yes it is according to Romans 10:10. Is BAPTISM a work of God? Yes it is, according to Colossians 2:12. Is Baptism a work we must do? Yes, it is according to Jesus in Mark 16:16. By the way, you did not answer my question; IS BAPTISM FROM HEAVEN OR MEN? If in spite of all these scriptures, you refuse to believe what God is saying—just say so. I’m wondering if you are just “pretending” to not understand, because you might not want to admit you don’t believe the Bible. it is not hard to “see” what the scriptures—-NOT ME—-are saying. The ATHIEST has no problem understanding Genesis 1:1–“In the beginning GOD….”He just does not believe it.

You cannot produce one scripture that says we are saved by faith “ALONE.” And yet, you say, and I quote, “None of the works we do plays any part in our salvation. It is by faith alone…”. Where does the Bible say that? Don’t cite every scripture in the Bible about “faith”—we ALL agree that faith is necessary. I want to see one—just one— that says we are saved by FAITH ALONE. That is not the same thing as being saved by faith. Is being saved by “repentance” the same thing as being saved by REPENTANCE ALONE? Would you agree to the statement that we are saved by REPENTANCE ALONE?? No? Why not? You think we can be saved by faith alone; would it be correct and true if someone believed and taught that we can be saved by repentance ALONE? Of course not. And neither is it true that we are saved by faith alone.

What I am, God knows and He is the only one that matters. It’s the word of God and what HE says that is important.

 

[TishnTexas]

Firstly you talk about the Works of God.. Yeah i totally agree, Gods works brings about our salvation, Jesus dying on the cross was a Work,, HIS work, Not our work. So if they are GODS WORKS they are not works WE DO... RIGHT? right.. So my stance is correct.. Non of the works we do plays any part in our salvation it is by faith alone in the message of Jesus and the Atonement that Jesus secured on the cross that we are saved..

Secondly the latter part of your post gives me Calvanist vibes.. Are you a calvinist beckworth..

The biggest issue I have with the faith alone argument is that it wasn't until Jesus Himself was baptized (stating "Let it be so now, it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness") in the Jordan by John that the Holy Spirit appeared and God spoke the words " This is my Son, whom I love, with him I am well pleased" Matt 3:12-17. If we are to follow in Jesus' footsteps on the path to God, why wouldn't we need the baptism too?

 

[TrustandObey]

So my stance is correct.. Non of the works we do plays any part in our salvation it is by faith alone in the message of Jesus and the Atonement that Jesus secured on the cross that we are saved..

"faith alone"?

Oh there's that imaginary passage that pushers of Faith Alone Regeneration Theology can never seem to find.

Since they cannot seem to find it in the Bible, how about maybe searching the non-canon books such as The Shepherd of Hermas or The Epistle of Barnabas. I will save you the time, the passage is not there either.

Let us know when you find it.

No surmising allowed.

 

[Adstar]

No. That’s not what the Bible says. I gave plenty of scripture to prove that God’s works are faith, repentance, confession, and baptism ( to name a few). These are all specifically coupled with SALVATION. John 6:29 proves that faith is a work ( along with the two I mentioned from Thessalonians). You said and I quote, “So if they are GOD’s works, they are not works WE DO…right?” WRONG. What about John 6:29 do you not understand? Faith is a WORK. Do we have to have faith? Do we have to believe? Yes, we do. THAT IS SOMETHING WE MUST DO. That is a “work of God” that Jesus says we must do to be saved. Mark 16:16. It’s not rocket science. REPENTANCE IS A WORK OF GOD. Do we have to repent?? Of course we do. So then repentance is a work that we must DO to be saved. Acts 17:30, Luke 13:3, Acts 3:19. CONFESSION is a work of God. Did God say confession is “unto salvation”? Yes He did Romans 10:10. Is confession a work of God. that we must DO? Yes it is according to Romans 10:10. Is BAPTISM a work of God? Yes it is, according to Colossians 2:12. Is Baptism a work we must do? Yes, it is according to Jesus in Mark 16:16. By the way, you did not answer my question; IS BAPTISM FROM HEAVEN OR MEN? If in spite of all these scriptures, you refuse to believe what God is saying—just say so. I’m wondering if you are just “pretending” to not understand, because you might not want to admit you don’t believe the Bible. it is not hard to “see” what the scriptures—-NOT ME—-are saying. The ATHIEST has no problem understanding Genesis 1:1–“In the beginning GOD….”He just does not believe it.

You cannot produce one scripture that says we are saved by faith “ALONE.” And yet, you say, and I quote, “None of the works we do plays any part in our salvation. It is by faith alone…”. Where does the Bible say that? Don’t cite every scripture in the Bible about “faith”—we ALL agree that faith is necessary. I want to see one—just one— that says we are saved by FAITH ALONE. That is not the same thing as being saved by faith. Is being saved by “repentance” the same thing as being saved by REPENTANCE ALONE? Would you agree to the statement that we are saved by REPENTANCE ALONE?? No? Why not? You think we can be saved by faith alone; would it be correct and true if someone believed and taught that we can be saved by repentance ALONE? Of course not. And neither is it true that we are saved by faith alone.

What I am, God knows and He is the only one that matters. It’s the word of God and what HE says that is important.

I really find it astounding that people would say that the Bible never clearly states that salvation is by Faith and not from Works.. But alas

(Ephesians 2:4-9) "But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, {5} Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved {6} And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: {7} That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. {8} For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: {9} Not of works, lest any man should boast."

You can also take the time to read the entire Chapter of Romans 4...

How much more clear can the Bible get.. Why on earth do people reject the lite yoke Jesus talked about and prefer to put themselves into the salvation by works bondage that does not work? Salvation through trusting in the Atonement of Jesus is easier then drinking water it's a gift of loving grace.. Why reject the gift that saves? Madness.. absolute madness.. But alas millions of people are locked in to this salvation by works dogma.. what a tragedy..

 

[mailmandan]

I really find it astounding that people would say that the Bible never clearly states that salvation is by Faith and not from Works.. But alas

(Ephesians 2:4-9) "But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, {5} Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved {6} And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: {7} That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. {8} For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: {9} Not of works, lest any man should boast."

You can also take the time to read the entire Chapter of Romans 4...

How much more clear can the Bible get.. Why on earth do people reject the lite yoke Jesus talked about and prefer to put themselves into the salvation by works bondage that does not work? Salvation through trusting in the Atonement of Jesus is easier then drinking water it's a gift of loving grace.. Why reject the gift that saves? Madness.. absolute madness.. But alas millions of people are locked in to this salvation by works dogma.. what a tragedy..

Amen! That salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works is not hard to understand. (Ephesians 2:8,9) It's just hard for works-salvationists to ACCEPT. It's a shame that human pride will not allow works-salvationists to place their faith in Jesus Christ "alone" for salvation. (Romans 4:5-6) Their hands are full of their works and they will not let go in order to receive Christ through faith.

The Bible makes it clear in many passages of scripture that man is saved through belief/faith - "apart from additions or modifications." (Luke 8:12; John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:5-6; 5:1-2; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Galatians 2:16; 3:6-14, 26; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9; 2 Timothy 3:15; Hebrews 10:39; 1 John 5:13 etc..).

Now we don't need to "add" the word "alone" next to "belief/faith" in each of these passages of scripture in order to figure out that the words, "belief/faith" stand alone in connection with receiving eternal life/salvation. Hence, FAITH ALONE. Do these many passages of scripture say belief/faith "plus something else?" Plus, baptism? Plus, works? NO. So, then it's faith (rightly understood) in Christ alone for salvation.

*Not to be confused with an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains "alone" - barren of works. (James 2:14-24) Works-salvationists just cannot seem to grasp this and there is a reason for that.

 

[Magenta]

The biggest issue I have with the faith alone argument is that it wasn't until Jesus Himself was baptized (stating "Let it be so now, it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness") in the Jordan by John that the Holy Spirit appeared and God spoke the words " This is my Son, whom I love, with him I am well pleased" Matt 3:12-17. If we are to follow in Jesus' footsteps on the path to God, why wouldn't we need the baptism too?

Jesus' baptism "to fulfill all righteousness" was part of what was required under the law
when a priest was taking up His priestly duties. The priesthood was also being transferred
from being Levitical to being after the order of Melchizedek. Jesus is our new high priest.

 

[Beckworth]

TishnTexas, that is a good question. Yes, Jesus came to fulfill the law and He did—every prophecy about Him was fulfilled by the time He died on the cross. Remember His last words—IT IS FINISHED.” Everything was finished; His “mission” on earth that the Father gave Him to do; The Old Jewish law of Moses was fulfilled and finished. In Matthew 5:8 Jesus said nothing would PASS FROM THE LAW (old) until all was fulfilled.
I believe I can show from the scriptures that the Old Testament Jewish law of Moses was “done away” when Jesus died on the cross. Paul in the book of Galatians 3:24 says the Old Tesrament law was our “tutor” to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, WE ARE NO LONGER UNDER A TUTOR.” That is saying that now that Christ is here, we are no longer under the Old Testament law.. Colossians 2:14 says that Jesus took the Old Law ( with its ordinances) “out of the way, having nailed it to His cross.” I know He is talking about the Old Testament practices because in verse 16 he talks about their laws concerning food—clean and unclean meats, festivals, feast days, new moons, SABBATHS—all Old Testament laws and practices. No one is to judge us in those things anymore because Jesus has nailed all of those old laws to his cross. There are many, many more scriptures that prove this but because of time and space I just want to mention one more. Hebrews 9:16-17. Says that just like any person’s will —it does not come into effect until that person is dead. So when Jesus died on the cross, His last will and testament came into force. The New Testament is the will or law of Christ. Read the book of Hebrews. 7:12 specifically says that the law has been changed ( from Old testament to New Testament). Verse 18 “There is an ANNULLING OF THE FORMER COMMANDMENT.” Verse 19 “ There is the bringing in of a BETTER hope— verse 22, a BETTER COVENANT. ( testament). Chapter 8:7-11 talks about a “first covenant ( testament) that is the Old Testament and a “second covenant” this is the New Testament. And then he quotes Jeremiah 31:31 where even in the Old Testament God promised that one day He would make a NEW COVENANT with His people, not like the first one He made with their fathers who were in Egypt. The New Testament fulfills Jeremiah’s prophecy. We are not under the Old Testament anymore with any of its laws or practices. We are under the law of Christ.

The anointing of oil in the Bible had different purposes. Sometimes it was used as a “sign” that a man was King or it was often used as medicine for healing. I believe this is mentioned James 5:14, but I don’t remember anytime that oil was used to save a person from their sins or used as a baptism. Keep in mind that there were different baptisms. John the Baptist’s baptism was to get the people ready for the coming of Christ. I know His baptism was not the one used for salvation because in Acts 19 some disciples of Jesus had only received John’s baptism and they had to be re-baptized with Jesus’s baptism.

Water baptism in the name if Jesus, for the forgiveness of sins ( Acts 2:38) is the baptism of Jesus and is the only one I know of that saves us according to 1 Peter 3:21. It is the only one that gives us the “gift” of the Holy Spirit. Read Romans 6. Water baptism is a “form” of the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. It puts us into His death where The blood of Christ is—where His blood is applied to us and “washes away our sins.” Acts 22:16. Acts 4:12 tells us baptism in the name of Jesus—there is salvation in no other name. The apostle Paul in 1 Cor. 1 says that in order for you to wear the name of Christ you have to have been baptized into His name. So. If we are not baptized into the name of Christ, we can’t legally be called “Christian” after Him.

I could go on and on but I don’t want to “over load” you. So, in conclusion, let me just say, Hebrews 8:13 says that the Old Testament is OBSOLETE and ready to VANISH AWAY. Whatever the anointing of oil was in the Old Testament, it is not part of the New Law of Christ. The purpose of the Transfiguration (Matt. 17)) was to show that Jesus was more important than Moses ( or Elijah). God said THIS IS MY SON. Hear Him. Jesus was water baptized and told us He left us an example that we should follow Him. Ephesians 4:5 says there is only ONE baptism. We know there were more than one baptisms in the Bible so I think it is safe to assume that He is talking about only one that will save you. It’s water baptism in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins. Acts 2:38.

If I have not been clear or said something you don’t understand please let me know. I have tried to prove by book, chapter and verse of God’s word what I believe the “truth” is. Thank you for your interest. I will be happy to discuss this more anytime in another post.

 

[Beckworth]

I really find it astounding that people would say that the Bible never clearly states that salvation is by Faith and not from Works.. But alas

(Ephesians 2:4-9) "But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, {5} Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved {6} And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: {7} That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. {8} For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: {9} Not of works, lest any man should boast."

You can also take the time to read the entire Chapter of Romans 4...

How much more clear can the Bible get.. Why on earth do people reject the lite yoke Jesus talked about and prefer to put themselves into the salvation by works bondage that does not work? Salvation through trusting in the Atonement of Jesus is easier then drinking water it's a gift of loving grace.. Why reject the gift that saves? Madness.. absolute madness.. But alas millions of people are locked in to this salvation by works dogma.. what a tragedy..

I believe I was very clear and that you understand perfectly well that I asked for the Bible scripture that says we are saved by faith ALONE. You know I was not asking for verses that show faith is necessary. So, since you couldn’t produce not even ONE verse that says salvation is by faith ALONE, I guess that means you do not have one.
Until you can show by scripture—just one—that says we are saved by Faith ALONE,, I believe the Bible proves that we are NOT saved by faith ALONE and indeed that is a false doctrine.

 

[Beckworth]

I agree with everything you state here but have one follow up question: Which baptism? Water or oil? I have been to several churches and they each teach their version is the correct one. Does it matter? Is a baptism a baptism and as long as your intent to be cleansed from sin either will be accepted? There are many instances of anointing with oil in the Old Testament but the New Testament references water baptism. Jesus didn't come to replace the Old Testament but to fulfil it so....

I responded to your question but it came up as another post, so I hope you can find it and read it. I’m sorry for the mix-up. It is post # 92.

 

[Beckworth]

He says our faith is justified by our works. There is nothing in James to suggest works save us. If we have genuine faith in God and not just "hearsay" (because I say so Jm.2:18), then we will have works commensurate with our faith. If our works don't line up with what we say we believe then our faith is dead (ie.no production of value).

Faith comes from the word (Rom.10:17) and the word of God is alive and active (Heb.4:12) hence genuine faith results in works.

So how do you explain John 6:28-29? Is faith a work? John says it is . Also, Paul says it is . 1 Thessalonians 1:3 and 2 Thess. 1:11. God only needs to say something one time for it to be true, but that faith is a WORK is stated 3 times by two different apostles. Now, you want to tell me faith is NOT a work? Satan ALWAYS says THE opposite of what God says, so be careful how you answer.

Since the Holy Spirit says that FAITH IS A WORK, ( John 6:29) and since you don’t believe works save us, then by your own words you must not believe we are saved by faith. Obviously, faith is a work, but you say works don’t save so faith can’t save anyone—if what you say is true.

But on the other hand, If you agree with Jesus ( John 6:29) that faith IS a work and you believe faith saves us, then it’s true that we are saved by works and what you are saying ( words don’t save us) is not true according to the Bible.

I believe, if you hold on to your present opinion, you will have to take a position of “opposition” to what Jesus says in John 6 and to the apostle Paul in 1 &2 Thess. You will also be in opposition to Jesus in Mark 16:16 and in opposition to Peter in 1 Peter 3:21. And in opposition to what Ananias says in Acts 22:16. They can’t ALL be wrong just so you can be right. I just want to ask you to believe what God says in the Bible. These are not my words but GOD’s word and the work of the Holy Spirit. You aren’t believing ME—you are believing THEM.

 

[mailmandan]

I believe I was very clear and that you understand perfectly well that I asked for the Bible scripture that says we are saved by faith ALONE. You know I was not asking for verses that show faith is necessary. So, since you couldn’t produce not even ONE verse that says salvation is by faith ALONE, I guess that means you do not have one. Until you can show by scripture—just one—that says we are saved by Faith ALONE,, I believe the Bible proves that we are NOT saved by faith ALONE and indeed that is a false doctrine.

See post #90. Allow me to break it down for you. Romans 5:1 - Therefore, having been justified by faith, (apart from additions or modifications, hence faith alone) we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace you have been saved through faith, (apart from additions or modifications, hence faith alone) and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Salvation through faith in Jesus Christ alone does not mean that we never repented (Acts 20:21) or that the word of faith is in our heart but not in our mouth (Romans 10:8-10) or that faith remains alone/barren of works. (James 2:14) It simply means that we are saved the very moment that we place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) Repentance is a change of mind which "precedes" faith. Confession is a confirmation of faith and is not a work for salvation after faith/not two separate steps to salvation, but chronologically together. Water baptism "follows" faith and salvation. (Acts 10:43-47)

Since you couldn’t produce not even ONE verse that says salvation is by faith AND WORKS, I guess that means you do not have one. Until you can show by scripture—just one—that says we are saved by faith AND WORKS,, I believe the Bible proves that we are NOT saved by faith AND WORKS and indeed that is a false doctrine.

 

[Doll]

Which would include that he is the Son of God? This is all that I can gather from a reading of John 3:14-18 (KJV) when reading it honestly and not trying to bend words into it. What I am struck by is 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 and to a smaller extent Romans 3:21-26 and Romans 10:9, which seem to put a different emphasis on salvation. In 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 the gospel seems to be the object of belief, that one is saved by believing the gospel, which I suppose might not be what Paul is trying to communicate. In Romans 3:25 it seems to be saying that salvation comes by faith in Jesus' blood when read a certain way, though, this verse and surrounding verses can be read another way to be completely in line with how I read John 3. In Romans 10:9 in the KJV it says that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. This makes sense too considering John 3 since if you believe in your heart that God raised Jesus from the dead you would believe in Jesus, along with confessing him with your mouth (I cannot read these words the way they are put forth in the NIV and ESV, "that if you confess with your mouth "Jesus is Lord" and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved", they don't read like that to me, though I am not saying that that is not what they mean, and I understand they are translating from the Greek), though I don't understand why the "goal post" is moved here from belief in Jesus to something else, though the preceding verses seem to necessitate the language.

The solace in this is that all these issues can be reconciled in that none of these verses can contradict the point of view that belief in Jesus alone is what constitutes salvation, i.e. there is no problem. It is just disconcerting reading these things when I am not entirely sure what constitutes salvation myself, though I lean towards the view that it is belief in Jesus alone, because I don't see how John 3 can be read any other way. I could use some major help in understanding the truth in this. What does constitute salvation? When answering this question please address the things I've written. And please no posts from gotquestions or copy and pastes from other websites unless you have read those materials and agree with what they're saying, but if you do why not put it into your own words? I don't like the regurgitation of materials on the internet and the standard it sets for people to not understand things themselves.

On the topic of gotquestions, they seem to be in line with the belief that it is faith in Jesus' blood that constitutes salvation, though, like I wrote, when I read John 3, I don't see how that is the case.

When responding to me please be patient, I am sincerely trying to understand.

In the beginning was the word. And the word was with God,and the word was God. And the word became flesh and dwelt among us.

Do yes,faith in God (Jesus) Saves.

Because besides God,there is no Savior.

Acts don't save us. Good works are proof of Salvation. Not what secures Salvation.

Jesus/God, said,no one comes to him unless the Father draws them.
Our natural minds do not seek the things of God. Because we are born separated from God when we enter this world. And we're led to believe the material realm,our self,our comfort,our wants,are paramount.

Only when God's Holy Spirit enters us will we understand the things of God.

It's all God. Which is why faith alone,instilled into us by God,saves us.

 

[Beckworth]

See post #90. Allow me to break it down for you. Romans 5:1 - Therefore, having been justified by faith, (apart from additions or modifications, hence faith alone) we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace you have been saved through faith, (apart from additions or modifications, hence faith alone) and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Salvation through faith in Jesus Christ alone does not mean that we never repented (Acts 20:21) or that the word of faith is in our heart but not in our mouth (Romans 10:8-10) or that faith remains alone/barren of works. (James 2:14) It simply means that we are saved the very moment that we place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) Repentance is a change of mind which precedes faith. Confession is a confirmation of faith and is not a work for salvation after faith. Water baptism "follows" faith and salvation. (Acts 10:43-47)

Since you couldn’t produce not even ONE verse that says salvation is by faith AND WORKS, I guess that means you do not have one. Until you can show by scripture—just one—that says we are saved by faith AND WORKS,, I believe the Bible proves that we are NOT saved by faith AND WORKS and indeed that is a false doctrine.

Oh, but I can and it’s a scripture that you should not disagree with because it is by your own definition. Mark 16:16 “He that believes ( faith) AND is baptized (work) shall be saved.” You object to baptism because YOU SAY it is a WORK and you refuse to believe we can be saved by works. But here it is—“faith and works” together equals salvation.

Now the ironic thing about this is that I agree with you that baptism is a work. The difference is that you think it is a work of man and I believe it is a work of God ( like faith in John 6).

Would you like to answer Jesus’s question to the Pharisees? John’s baptism, was it from heaven or from men? What is YOUR answer.

And after you answer that question, please answer this one: THE BAPTISM OF JESUS, THE BAPTISM THAT IS IN HIS NAME, IS IT FROM HEAVEN OR FROM MEN?
Adstar does not seem to want to answer that question. How about YOU?

 

[sawdust]

So how do you explain John 6:28-29? Is faith a work? John says it is . Also, Paul says it is . 1 Thessalonians 1:3 and 2 Thess. 1:11. God only needs to say something one time for it to be true, but that faith is a WORK is stated 3 times by two different apostles. Now, you want to tell me faith is NOT a work? Satan ALWAYS says THE opposite of what God says, so be careful how you answer.

Since the Holy Spirit says that FAITH IS A WORK, ( John 6:29) and since you don’t believe works save us, then by your own words you must not believe we are saved by faith. Obviously, faith is a work, but you say works don’t save so faith can’t save anyone—if what you say is true.

But on the other hand, If you agree with Jesus ( John 6:29) that faith IS a work and you believe faith saves us, then it’s true that we are saved by works and what you are saying ( words don’t save us) is not true according to the Bible.

I believe, if you hold on to your present opinion, you will have to take a position of “opposition” to what Jesus says in John 6 and to the apostle Paul in 1 &2 Thess. You will also be in opposition to Jesus in Mark 16:16 and in opposition to Peter in 1 Peter 3:21. And in opposition to what Ananias says in Acts 22:16. They can’t ALL be wrong just so you can be right. I just want to ask you to believe what God says in the Bible. These are not my words but GOD’s word and the work of the Holy Spirit. You aren’t believing ME—you are believing THEM.

Faith comes from the word. Rom.10:17 Faith is God's work in us, it is the power of the word at work. We do not produce faith, our believing is an act of our will that God requires from us as He has declared He will save believers but it is the word that produces faith.

You are confusing good works like giving to the poor and faith with believing the person and work of Christ. The latter is the only work we do that counts as it is what God requires of us yet, it does not save us or create anything good.

John 6:29
Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

He does the rest, He prepared the good works and the faith that is produced within from the word, is what allows good works to flow forth. They are the result of genuine faith, not the precursor to faith. Our believing doesn't produce the works God prepared, the faith that comes from the word is what produces good works. We cannot take credit for them.

 

[Beckworth]

Faith comes from the word. Rom.10:17 Faith is God's work in us, it is the power of the word at work. We do not produce faith, our believing is an act of our will that God requires from us as He has declared He will save believers but it is the word that produces faith.

You are confusing good works like giving to the poor and faith with believing the person and work of Christ. The latter is the only work we do that counts as it is what God requires of us yet, it does not save us or create anything good.

John 6:29
Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

He does the rest, He prepared the good works and the faith that is produced within from the word, is what allows good works to flow forth. They are the result of genuine faith, not the precursor to faith. Our believing doesn't produce the works God prepared, the faith that comes from the word is what produces good works. We cannot take credit for them.

In John 6;28 the people asked what THEY COULD DO. They are not asking about what God does or has done. And Jesus is telling them what THEY-the people need TO DO.