Yes, and I said that is what we do so what are you on about? We believe but faith comes form the word.
Rom.10:17
Nice try and very cunning.
Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved
(general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who
does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely necessary for salvation.
Condemnation rests on unbelief and not on a lack of baptism. *NOWHERE does the Bible say, "baptized or condemned."
If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then we would expect Jesus to mention it in the following verses. (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26) Yet what is the
ONE requirement that Jesus mentions
NINE different times in each of these complete statements *
BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics. John 3:18 - He who
believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO)
does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO)
because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
*So, you still have not shown me a Bible verse that says
"saved through faith AND WORKS" in
contradiction to
Ephesians 2:8,
9.
Baptism is a
work of righteousness (
Matthew 3:13-15) and we are
not saved by works of righteousness which we have done. (
Titus 3:5)
In
John 6:29, Jesus said - "This is the work (singular) of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent," when He answered the Jews (who were taking a legalistic approach) when they asked, "What shall we do, so that we may work the works (plural) of God?" So, by Jesus' play on words here, He was not implying that believing is just "another" work in a series of works in a quest to receive salvation by works, as you would suppose. Also, through believing, we are completely trusting in "Another's work," (Christ's finished work of redemption -
Romans 3:24-28). There is a
distinction between faith AND works. (
Ephesians 2:8,
9)
It was from heaven (of divine origin) and not merely a human invention. Now this question from Jesus is significant as it challenges the Pharisees to consider the divine or human origin of John's baptism. If they affirm it was from heaven (of divine origin) then they affirm John's authority as divine and in doing so, they must also recognize Jesus' authority as divine as well, since John recognized Him as the Messiah. Now if they say from men (of human origin) then they risk being stoned to death by the people who were persuaded that John was a prophet. Instead, they took the easy way out and answered they did not know where it was from.
Same answer. The baptism of Jesus was from heaven (of divine origin) and not merely a human invention.
Mailman, Your answer to Mark 16:16 is wrong since baptism is only for BELIEVERS” Acts 8:37. You know it was UN-necessary for Jesus to say “He who does not believe and is not baptized.” If you dont believe, baptism is out of the question. The bottom line is, if you want to know how to be saved, read the first part of the verse. If you want to know how to be lost, read the second part. You are really hurting and grasping at straws to think that your man-made explanation for the last part WIPE’S OUT or makes the first part of that verse a lie. Because that’s what you are saying—that Jesus lied when He said “He that believes and is baptized will be saved.” Since you say that is not true, what are you doing but calling Jesus the Son of God a liar. Mark 16:16 is TRUE, EVERY WORD of it. What Jesus said is true- it takes both faith and baptism to be saved. He put baptism BEFORE salvation—not after salvation. That verse remains true, regardless of whether you believe it or not, whether you ACCEPT it or not. All you are doing by trying to explain it away is proving the Son of God is a liar. Mark 16:16 is too plain and too damaging to “faith only” doctrine for me to worry about your puny attempt to get rid of it.
you haven’t proved anything by “pulling out” 9 scriptures that talk about “faith” but do not mention baptism. Are you “hurting” or what! I can pull out 9 more scriptures that are directly connected to salvation and show that NONE OF THEM mention “faith” . Does that PROVE that we are Not saved by faith? Does that mean faith is not necessary? I guess it does if your argument is true. So you have just disproved your own doctrine!! Here are 9 MORE scriptures that by YOUR REASONING “ prove” Faith is not necessary for salvation.
1) Acts 2:38. Here we have people specifically asking WHAT MUST WE DO TO BE SAVED? And what is Peter’s answer ? Did he say Believe? NO! He said “repent and be baptized.”!! By your logic, I’ve just proven “faith” is not required. It’s not mentioned here at all, so it is not necessarily. ( yes, I know, this is silly, but, this is THEIR argument—not mine.)). If faith is absolutely required for salvation, then you would expect Peter to have mentioned it; ESPECIALLY since this is the answer to “what must we do to be SAVED.” But no, faith is not included in his answer so that “proves” it does not save us. It is not in God’s plan of salvation.
2) Luke 13:3. Jesus is talking and He says “ unless you REPENT, you will all perish. IF FAITH IS NECESSARY to salvation why didn’t He say “Unless you Believe” you will all perish? It doesn’t matter that he may have said that faith saves us in OTHER scriptures. He doesn’t say that HERE, so that means that it does NOT save us, and is not necessary to salvation. God also says that baptism is necessary in Acts 2:38 and that it even SAVES US,in 1 Peter 3:21 but YOU say that just because it is not in the verses about faith that you quoted, you deduct that it does NOT save us and in fact is not necessary to salvation. No, Jesus didn’t say that unless you believe you will perish, , He said Unless you REPENT you will perish. Where is Faith in that verse? It’s not there!! So Faith can’t be necessary to salvation. And, by the way, I guess this means we are saved by REPENTANCE ONLY”!! I can ADD the word ONLY to that verse can’t I? After all, you add it to EVERY verse that has anything to do with faith. So if it works for faith, it should work for repentance, too.
3) Jesus says the same thing in Luke 13:5. Jesus REPEATS His teaching on the necessity of REPENTANCE WITHOUT FAITH!!
If faith was necessary for salvation then we would expect Him to mention it at least ONCE, but NO! Jesus says repentance is ALL that is needed and to make sure we get it, He EMPHASIZES it by saying it TWICE!!!! I believe MY choice of scriptures are STRONGER than your choice of scriptures (lol).
4) Acts 3:19. REPENT and be converted that your sins may be blotted out!” Why didn’t he say “BELIEVE” and be converted that your sins may be blotted out? That is, if faith only is what saves you? , if faith alone is all we need to be saved, then how can repentance convert us and blot out our sins???? This proves( according to you) that, not only is faith not necessary to salvation, but also proves that no one is saved by “FAITH ALONE.” According to you, we can’t be saved by both faith AND repentance, so this verse plainly teaches that we are saved by repentance ALONE because faith is not even mentioned here.
5) Acts 17:30. “God…commands all men to REPENT. Where is faith in this verse? Why didn’t he say Godcommands all men to BELIEVE and repent?? Belief is not mentioned here nor is it included in what God commands, so that ( according to your logic) makes repentance the ONLY thing that God commands. All of This is VERY STRONG EVIDENCE that REPENTANCE IS what saves us —not faith. I mean, look, 5 verses that say “repentance” is the answer to ‘what must we do?’ Repentance is what converts us and blots out our sins,; Jesus’s own words say we’ll be lost if we don’t; and God clearly DEMANDS it, Those verses are powerful!! Aside from proving baptism is un- necessary, this sounds an awful lot like Faith ALONE is a false doctrine. Are you going to spend LONG explanations about grammar and cite men to try to “EXPLAIN AWAY” ALL of these scriptures? ”Bear with me, I’ve got 3 more to go.
6)Matthew 10:32. Jesus says unless you CONFESS ME, I will not confess you. Why didn’t He say unless you BELIEVE in me, I will not confess you to my Father. Faith alone is all we need? Right? So it shouldn't make any difference whether I confess Jesus or not —just as long as I believe in Him ALONE. Yes, that is the way MAN thinks ( not God.) But He did not include faith in this verse —I mean the least He could have done was say “Unless you BELIEVE and confess… but He didn’t, so therefore faith us NOT NECESSARY TO HAVING Jesus confess us to The Father.
Continued in another post.
