Understanding God’s election

[Genez]

Now you got it. I would disagree that "it is all of Him and none of us." We play a crucial role in the salvation of our souls. Each person is responsible to respond positively to the Gospel. I consider this to be a self-evident truth, recorded throughout the Bible.

We are responsible to respond. But!
Respond, only after the Holy Spirit paralyzes our depravity of the flesh, thus enabling one's soul to freely choose.
The depravity paralyzation takes place by the power of God's grace.

That is why we must be saved by grace.

Believe it or not...
Not everyone wants Christ while their flesh is being tied up by grace.
In that case?
With the depravity of the flesh out of the way?
It can not be called 'sin.'
In that unique status?
The rejection of Christ is Evil. Not sin.

Jesus died for our sins.
Jesus could not die for evil.
To do so?
He would have had to reject Himself.

.......

 

[Intersection]

We are responsible to respond. But!
Respond, only after the Holy Spirit paralyzes our depravity of the flesh, thus enabling one's soul to freely choose.
The depravity paralyzation takes place by the power of God's grace.

That is why we must be saved by grace.

Believe it or not...
Not everyone wants Christ while their flesh is being tied up by grace.
In that case?
With the depravity of the flesh out of the way?
It can not be called 'sin.'
In that unique status?
The rejection of Christ is Evil. Not sin.

Jesus died for our sins.
Jesus could not die for evil.
To do so?
He would have had to reject Himself.

.......

Jesus only died for the elect.

 

[Genez]

Jesus only died for the elect.

I will put some TULIPs on your doctrine's tombstone.


.......

 

[sawdust]

Jesus only died for the elect.

Then what is the basis for everyone to be released from death?

Revelation 20:13
The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.

Death and Hades are empty when thrown into the lake of fire.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

From what ive read/heard the Spirit doesnt leave with the church.

That's the excuse pre-tribbers give about why the rapture happens before the antichrist and the great tribulation happens.

It doesn't matter anyway because the Bible says the rapture happens after most of us Christians get killed because of the antichrist, false prophet, mark of the beast and world hating on us in the great tribulation.

 

[Blain]

That's the excuse pre-tribbers give about why the rapture happens before the antichrist and the great tribulation happens.

It doesn't matter anyway because the Bible says the rapture happens after most of us Christians get killed because of the antichrist, false prophet, mark of the beast and world hating on us in the great tribulation.

I would say that it is not a pretrib rapture but a prewrath rapture most likely in the middle of the tribulation at least that is my understanding of it. But I could be wrong it may even be that pretribbers are correct or post trib but more than likely I see a prewrath rapture happening

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

I would say that it is not a pretrib rapture but a prewrath rapture most likely in the middle of the tribulation at least that is my understanding of it. But I could be wrong it may even be that pretribbers are correct or post trib but more than likely I see a prewrath rapture happening

The seventh trumpet not only announces the rapture and Jesus' return, it also announces that the seven bowl judgements are about to begin. So yes, the rapture is prewrath.

 

[GWH]

Yes and raptured is raptured, justified is justified, sanctified is sanctified. Reward is reward.

There is no reward for being saved, that was a free gift of God.

To be raptured you are a vessel unto honor and that indicates you have sanctified yourself.

Rapture occurs when Christians living as Christ returns are changed from mortals into immortal beings "in a flash" (1Cor. 15:51-54).

 

[ZNP]

That's the excuse pre-tribbers give about why the rapture happens before the antichrist and the great tribulation happens.

It doesn't matter anyway because the Bible says the rapture happens after most of us Christians get killed because of the antichrist, false prophet, mark of the beast and world hating on us in the great tribulation.

I agree with this, though I also agree a small minority of Christians will be raptured prior to all of this, the Antichrist will lie about it (the great deception) and that is why the bodies of the two witnesses lie in the streets for 3 1/2 days live streamed to the whole world because they want to see who was telling the truth about the rapture.

 

[HeIsHere]

I will put some TULIPs on your doctrine's tombstone.


.......

Here you go..

T
U
L
I
P

 

[ZNP]

This is a very interesting account describing the situation among Christians in the UK which I think gives us an idea of what it will be like for Christians worldwide after the rapture. (I'm not saying it is as bad as it will be, I'm simply saying the US is standing on the road, we look down the road to where UK is and that is half way to the tribulation saints)

The Collapse Is Here: Europe's Darkest Hour | Pastor Tom Hughes & Pastor Gary Mckibben

 

[EddieM]

We are responsible to respond. But!
Respond, only after the Holy Spirit paralyzes our depravity of the flesh, thus enabling one's soul to freely choose.
The depravity paralyzation takes place by the power of God's grace.

That is why we must be saved by grace.

Believe it or not...
Not everyone wants Christ while their flesh is being tied up by grace.
In that case?
With the depravity of the flesh out of the way?
It can not be called 'sin.'
In that unique status?
The rejection of Christ is Evil. Not sin.

Jesus died for our sins.
Jesus could not die for evil.
To do so?
He would have had to reject Himself.

.......

I am sorry but I can't quite understand what you are saying. But this I know: The holy Spirit, once the gospel is presented, convinces the unbeliever of the truth of the Gospel and that the unbeliever is convinced that his eternal destiny is at stake. GJohn 16, Rom 1

 

[ZNP]

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. 15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

 

[Genez]

I am sorry but I can't quite understand what you are saying. But this I know: The holy Spirit, once the gospel is presented, convinces the unbeliever of the truth of the Gospel and that the unbeliever is convinced that his eternal destiny is at stake. GJohn 16, Rom 1

Unraveling the issue of total depravity rests in how well our understanding of how the fallen flesh of the unregenerate dominates over the soul's ability to learn and know about God.

And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. ​

As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. ​

For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells.​

For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. Romans 7:16-18​

Our flesh opposes God's Spirit, and the Spirit opposes the flesh.
The natural man is stuck with his soul being dominated by his body's desires.

The body is where the sin nature operates and maneuvers the soul to its demands.
In essence, our souls were slaves to the flesh before regeneration.

Even after regeneration it remains a conflict between the soul and flesh, but grace now gives us the power to have our soul
operating in freedom as long as we walk in the Spirit.

For the flesh desires against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh. ​

​

For these are opposed to one another in order that you should not do ​

those things you might wish. Galatians 5:17​

Our soul is the real person we are.
The flesh is only a biological vehicle for our soul to get around with in the material world.
But, that vehicle operates on auto pilot and needs to be taken control over by grace!

So, if the natural man is run by his desires of his flesh?
How could God make a person's soul be free to make a decision concerning God?

God must take the flesh and neuter its power while our soul is presented Truth God wants us to consider.
That power God uses the neuter the dominating flesh is one of the functions of what we call "grace."

Grace is real spiritual enabling power we can receive from God when we are being humble before God.

But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.”​

Therefore, I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may ​

rest on me. 2 Corinthians 12:9​

Grace is power, not simply God having favorable feelings towards us.

An alternative take:

​

"My grace produces contentment/sufficiency {arkeo} for you" ...​

For 'the power [of God]' {dunamis} ​

Is fulfilled by means of helplessness/weakness.​

​

When we are weak, is when He should be strong in us, by means of grace and knowledge of sound doctrine.

grace and peace ........