Am I correct with my understanding of this? Faith in Jesus alone = salvation

[Beckworth]

Y

In John 6;28 the people asked what THEY COULD DO. They are not asking about what God does or has done. And Jesus is telling them what THEY-the people need TO DO.

You are saying that we do nothing when it comes to faith, which is ridiculous. That is not what Jesus says. And you mis -quoted Romans 10:17. Faith comes from HEARING the word of God, not from the word as if it is some supernatural thing that Only God. does and we have no part in. Our faith comes from HEARING God’s word. That is Romans /0:17. Does John 6:29 NOT SAY THAT OUR “belief” is a work? Are you denying that he said that? What do you say is the answer to their question of “WHAT MUST WE DO?” Verse 28, they asked the Lord a question. His answer to their question is telling them what THEY MUST DO.

I’m sorry, but you are contradicting yourself or talking in circles. First you say (and I quote), “BELIeving in the person and work of Christ is the only WORK we do” but then you say (and I quite), “ it does NOT SAVE US.” I have to admit, I don’t know what you are saying or what you believe. So, you DO BELIEVE that faith is a WORK like Jesus says? But then you really believe that THAT faith will not save us?

You have no scripture to prove what you are saying, in that last paragraph especially. I was not talking about “good works” according to your definition( feeding the poor, etc) in any thing I said—you introduced that subject. And you are completely off the subject now. Talking about whether “good works come BEFORE faith or AFTER faith. That’s not what we are talking about. The topic of this conversation is about whether or not faith is a work as Jesus in John 6 says it is and what are the consequences of that belief. If faith is a work, and we are saved by faith, then we are saved by works and that includes repentance, confession and baptism which are all works of the same kind. They all have to do with salvation according to the Bible. We are also discussing the KIND OF WORKS THEY ARE—works of God or works of men??

Maybe I can get YOU to answer the question Jesus asked the Pharisees: Is baptism from heaven or men?

 

[sawdust]

In John 6;28 the people asked what THEY COULD DO. They are not asking about what God does or has done. And Jesus is telling them what THEY-the people need TO DO.

Yes, and I said that is what we do so what are you on about? We believe but faith comes form the word. Rom.10:17

 

[Magenta]

The topic of this conversation is about whether or not faith is a work as Jesus in John (ch) 6 says it is

John 6 v 29 calls it the work of God.

 

[TabinRivCA]

Rom 12:3
For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.

Idk if this verse has been quoted yet and these two:

• James 2:17 (KJV): "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone".
  
  
• James 2:26 (KJV): "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also"

I'm just tossing these in because I like talking about faith, it's so epic.

 

[GWH]

Just a few observations about point #2. I couldn’t tell if you meant that we “encounter” God through the “prophets” and what they have revealed by special revelation, or that WE are the ones receiving the special revelation and encounter Him that way. I Peter 1:8-12 talks about the “prophets”receiving special revelation verse 12–“To THEM it was revealed…” If that is what you are saying, then yes, I agree that we benefit from their special revelation. Especially as it is written down for us in the word of God. So, actually apart from the Bible, we can only “see” God in His creation. We can learn that He IS, that He exists. But with the word of God, the book that he has revealed to us we can really get to know God.
2 Timothy 3:16, “All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable…for every good work. It is all we need. He says it is complete and is all we need to get to heaven.

In Hebrews 1, God says that “IN THE PAST, in VARIOUS WAYS, He spoke to people ( our ancestors) by the prophets (?thru their special revelations) BUT ( shows contrast), has in these “LAST DAYS”, that’s NOW. We are presently living in the “LAST DAYS.”, He now speaks to us by HIS SON, Jesus the Christ. So, yes, IN THE PAST, God spoke to people by prophets, in dreams, visions, directly from heaven or “inner voices”— various ways , But now, in this time period in which we live, He speaks to us through His Son. Couple this verse with 1 Corinthians 2:16 which says that “we have the MIND of CHRIST.” Where? In the WORD. The Bible, the word of God is sufficient for us today. In it God has told us all we need to know. He says it “thoroughly” furnishes us with every good work— both for this life and the life to come.

I’m not sure I agree with your last sentence. It sounds like you are saying that all roads lead to heaven or that there are many different roads all leading to heaven. Maybe I am misunderstanding you. But, I believe the Bible teaches that there is only one way or road to heaven. The Word only portrays 2 ways to go: one road leads to destruction, the other road to eternal life. I would agree that there are MANY different roads “SEEKING” heaven, or TRYING to get to heaven, but God says there is only ONE ROAD. It is called “ the WAY.” Acts 19:23 And the “the” in front of the word “way” means it is definitive, it is the only one. The Bible in many places condemns “division” among the followers of Christ. John 17, 1 Cor. 1. We must all be “United” with God and Christ and with each other in the “truth”. There is only ONE truth.

I agree with what you said, and I think your misunderstanding of my last sentence was due to omitting "truth".
Truth has existed from the beginning, before the NT revelation (cf. Eph. 2:11-3:6).

 

[mailmandan]

Oh, but I can and it’s a scripture that you should not disagree with because it is by your own definition.

Nice try and very cunning.

Mark 16:16 “He that believes (faith) AND is baptized (work) shall be saved.” You object to baptism because YOU SAY it is a WORK and you refuse to believe we can be saved by works. But here it is—“faith and works” together equals salvation.

Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely necessary for salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief and not on a lack of baptism. *NOWHERE does the Bible say, "baptized or condemned."

If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then we would expect Jesus to mention it in the following verses. (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26) Yet what is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions NINE different times in each of these complete statements *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics. John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

*So, you still have not shown me a Bible verse that says "saved through faith AND WORKS" in contradiction to Ephesians 2:8,9.

Now the ironic thing about this is that I agree with you that baptism is a work.

Baptism is a work of righteousness (Matthew 3:13-15) and we are not saved by works of righteousness which we have done. (Titus 3:5)

The difference is that you think it is a work of man and I believe it is a work of God (like faith in John 6).

In John 6:29, Jesus said - "This is the work (singular) of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent," when He answered the Jews (who were taking a legalistic approach) when they asked, "What shall we do, so that we may work the works (plural) of God?" So, by Jesus' play on words here, He was not implying that believing is just "another" work in a series of works in a quest to receive salvation by works, as you would suppose. Also, through believing, we are completely trusting in "Another's work," (Christ's finished work of redemption -Romans 3:24-28). There is a distinction between faith AND works. (Ephesians 2:8,9)

Would you like to answer Jesus’s question to the Pharisees? John’s baptism, was it from heaven or from men? What is YOUR answer.

It was from heaven (of divine origin) and not merely a human invention. Now this question from Jesus is significant as it challenges the Pharisees to consider the divine or human origin of John's baptism. If they affirm it was from heaven (of divine origin) then they affirm John's authority as divine and in doing so, they must also recognize Jesus' authority as divine as well, since John recognized Him as the Messiah. Now if they say from men (of human origin) then they risk being stoned to death by the people who were persuaded that John was a prophet. Instead, they took the easy way out and answered they did not know where it was from.

And after you answer that question, please answer this one: THE BAPTISM OF JESUS, THE BAPTISM THAT IS IN HIS NAME, IS IT FROM HEAVEN OR FROM MEN?
Adstar does not seem to want to answer that question. How about YOU?

Same answer. The baptism of Jesus was from heaven (of divine origin) and not merely a human invention.

 

[mailmandan]

“WORKS SALVATION?” Part 2

If Faith is a work of God according to John 6:28-29, 1 Thess 1:3 and 1 Thess. 1:11,

Talk about confusion. In John 6:29, Jesus said - "This is the work (singular) of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent," when He answered the Jews (who were taking a legalistic approach) when they asked, "What shall we do, so that we may work the works (plural) of God?" So, by Jesus' play on words here, He was not implying that believing is just "another" work in a series of works in a quest to receive salvation by works. Also, through believing, we are completely trusting in "Another's work," (Christ's finished work of redemption - Romans 3:24-28). There is a distinction between faith AND works. (Ephesians 2:8,9)

In regard to 1 Thessalonians 1:3, notice the words "work of" faith, "labor of" love and "patience of" hope. These are the practical outworking of the Thessalonians' conversion. The "work" that the Thessalonians do/accomplish is a result or consequence of their faith. So too their "labor" flows from love and their "endurance" comes from hope. Work "of" faith does not mean that faith in essence is the work accomplished. Their work is a result or consequence "of" their faith. The work done is "of" faith or done "out of" faith. Faith was already established at conversion and then the work "followed" as a result or consequence "of" their faith. (See Ephesians 2:8-10) So, work "of" faith does not equate to work "is" faith, as you would suppose. Roman Catholics make this same error.

then so is REPENTANCE a work if God. And if Faith is a work of God, so is CONFESSION a work of God. And if Faith is a work of God, so is BAPTISM a work of God.

So, now repentance and confession, along with faith are ALSO works? I see where you are going with this. By faith calling faith, repentance, confession and baptism works OF GOD, it's easier to justify your false gospel. Based on your eisegesis of John 6:29, you turn EVERYTHING into a work of God and teach salvation by faith + your personal definition of non-meritorious works. Very cunning!

Baptism originated with God MATTHEW 28:18-19, baptism is COMMANDED by God Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16, Acts 10:48. It did not come from or originate with MAN. It was NOT COMMANDED by man, it was COMMANDED by God . God tells us it SAVES US 1 Peter 3:21.

Now just because baptism is from heaven (of divine origin) and not from men (of human origin) does not mean that it's absolutely necessary for salvation. In Matthew 28:19, we have a command here by Jesus to go and make disciples of all nations, which is done by preaching the gospel unto all nations, then baptize converts, and teach them to observe all that Jesus has commanded you. Yet Jesus said nothing here about water baptism being absolutely necessary for salvation. Jesus already drew the line in the sand on who will and will not be condemned in John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

As I already explained to you in post #48 - In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.

*Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism. (Acts 10:47) In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit -Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

The only logical and Biblical conclusion when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17-18; 13:38-39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 20:21; 26:18) *Perfect Harmony*

CONTINUED..

 

[mailmandan]

The language in Acts 22:16 is similar to the statement of Christ when He took the bread and said, "This is my body." (Matthew 26:26) The bread was only the emblem of His body. Baptism is the emblem of the washing away of sins by the blood of Christ. Every time a believer is immersed, he washes away his sins in the same sense Paul did: not literally, but ceremonially, pointing to the blood of Christ by which sins are actually washed away. (Ephesians 1:7; Colossians 1:14; 1 John 1:7; Revelation 1:5)

Excellent article on Acts 22:16 - WHAT IS TRUTH: Acts 22:16--Baptism Essential for Salvation?

So, I would have to agree with Adstar, yes, we are NOT SAVED BY OUR WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS. We are saved by THE WORKS OF GOD, the WORKS that He created for us to do, the COMMANDS that He declared we should obey —like God’s work of FAITH, Mark 16:16, and His work of REPENTANCE Acts 16:30, and His work of CONFESSION, Romans 10:10, and His work of BAPTISM. 1 Peter 3:21. These are God’s works. They are the works of RIGHTEOUSNESS by which we are saved.

Again, very cunning! In 1 Peter 3:21, Peter tells us that baptism now saves you, yet when Peter uses this phrase, he continues in the same sentence to explain exactly what he means by it. He said that baptism now saves you-not the removal of dirt from the flesh (that is, not as an outward, physical act which washes dirt from the body--that is not what saves you), "but an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (that is, as an inward, spiritual transaction between God and the individual, a transaction that is symbolized by the outward ceremony of water baptism). You have a bad habit of basing your interpretation on only part of a verse.

Just as the eight people in the ark were "saved THROUGH water" as they were IN THE ARK. They were not literally saved "by" the water. Hebrews 11:7 is clear on this point (..built an ARK for the SAVING of his household). *The context reveals that ONLY the righteous (Noah and his family) were DRY and therefore SAFE. In contrast, only the wicked in Noah's day came in contact with the water and they all perished. So, by Peter saying, "not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience - through the resurrection of Jesus Christ," Peter guards against saving power to the physical ceremony in H20.

I already covered Mark 16:16 with you in post #106. You reverse the scriptural order of repentance and belief/faith in receiving salvation. Repentance actually "precedes" belief/faith. (Matthew 21:32; Mark 1:15; Acts 20:21) Confession is a confirmation of belief/faith (Romans 10:8-10) and is not a work for salvation after one believes unto righteousness. Confessing and believing here are not two separate steps to salvation but are chronologically together. Water baptism "follows" salvation through belief/faith. (Acts 10:43-47) You say we are saved by works of righteousness when scripture says we are NOT saved by works of righteousness which we have done. (Titus 3:5) You can't have it both ways. You can twist the truth by pitting works of God against works of man all you want, but they are still works of righteousness which WE have done that do not save us. I can see that the church of Christ has you thoroughly indoctrinated.

 

[Lamar]

You missed the point
I do not need to interpret it using the words because if. I just interpret the words
Paul told everyone to repent and they would receive the gift of the spirit . He then told them to be baptized into or for remission of sin
since they already had the gift of the spirit. They already had remission of sin
it’s not rocket science.

The point is only Faith Alone Regeneration Theology pushers interpret Acts 2:38 in such a convoluted manner.

You are interpreting the "eis" (for) in the verse as written in the past tense. There are no Bibles that use this interpretation, none.

It is people like you who insist that the "for" is because of the receiving of the Holy Spirit and remission of sins.

We are not baptized because we have already received the gift of the Holy Spirit but "so that" we will receive the gift.

Acts 2:38
Peter answered them, “All of you must turn to God and change the way you think and act, and each of you must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins will be forgiven. Then you will receive the Holy Spirit as a gift.

BTW, I think you are getting Peter and Paul mixed up.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

The point is only Faith Alone Regeneration Theology pushers interpret Acts 2:38 in such a convoluted manner.

You are interpreting the "eis" (for) in the verse as written in the past tense. There are no Bibles that use this interpretation, none.

It is people like you who insist that the "for" is because of the receiving of the Holy Spirit and remission of sins.

We are not baptized because we have already received the gift of the Holy Spirit but "so that" we will receive the gift.

Acts 2:38
Peter answered them, “All of you must turn to God and change the way you think and act, and each of you must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins will be forgiven. Then you will receive the Holy Spirit as a gift.

BTW, I think you are getting Peter and Paul mixed up.

lol. Or maybe we just interpret it the right way

I already proved IES can be translated many ways. as can the english word for and unto

But it is more than just this.. we have the 2nd person and third person and singular and plural words that we have to address.

which baptismal immersionists can not address

 

[TishnTexas]

While I agree with those who say WORKS do not save us. I do believe acknowledging Jesus as the Son of God and baptism are required. Jesus stated to John "..it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness" Matt 3-15 before the resurrection. After the resurrection and encountering Jesus on the road to Damascus, Saul received the Holy Spirit and was baptized Acts 9:18. Saul, who preached it is not by works and fought against the need for gentiles to be circumcised (as a work), felt it was needed. Baptism is not a "work" but a cleansing much like the angel of the Lord (again my opinion but I believe this to be Jesus) taking Joshua's filthy clothes (sin) Zech 3: 3-4).

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

While I agree with those who say WORKS do not save us. I do believe acknowledging Jesus as the Son of God and baptism are required. Jesus stated to John "..it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness" Matt 3-15 before the resurrection. After the resurrection and encountering Jesus on the road to Damascus, Saul received the Holy Spirit and was baptized Acts 9:18. Saul, who preached it is not by works and fought against the need for gentiles to be circumcised (as a work), felt it was needed. Baptism is not a "work" but a cleansing much like the angel of the Lord (again my opinion but I believe this to be Jesus) taking Joshua's filthy clothes (sin) Zech 3: 3-4).

Don't you believe Jesus was/is without sin?

 

[Lamar]

lol. Or maybe we just interpret it the right way

Okay...so all 1700 interpretations of the New Testament got Acts 2:38 wrong but the Faith Alone Regeneration Theology people got it right.

Just like all 1700 interpretations of the New Testament got John 1:1 wrong but the Jehovah Witnesses got it right.

I already proved IES can be translated many ways. as can the english word for and unto

Proving that something can be twisted to mean something else is a weak argument.

But it is more than just this.. we have the 2nd person and third person and singular and plural words that we have to address.

Again, no Bible translates this verse in the manner that you are pushing. Only those of your ilk suggest such a understanding.

Your "2nd person, third person, singular and plural nonsense has been addressed in the 1700 translations of the New Testament and again none of them translate the verse in such a bizarre way.

We do not need to "address" something that has already been addressed 1700 times.

 

[GWH]

While I agree with those who say WORKS do not save us. I do believe acknowledging Jesus as the Son of God and baptism are required. Jesus stated to John "..it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness" Matt 3-15 before the resurrection. After the resurrection and encountering Jesus on the road to Damascus, Saul received the Holy Spirit and was baptized Acts 9:18. Saul, who preached it is not by works and fought against the need for gentiles to be circumcised (as a work), felt it was needed. Baptism is not a "work" but a cleansing much like the angel of the Lord (again my opinion but I believe this to be Jesus) taking Joshua's filthy clothes (sin) Zech 3: 3-4).

Oops! Don’t zag where you should have zigged. The conclusion that harmonizes rather than double-thinks is that Paul viewed WB as a good work or way of professing saving faith.

 

[Magenta]

Jesus stated to John "..it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness" Matt 3-15

This has already been explained to you. Do you ignore it? Also, Jesus had no sin.

 

[TishnTexas]

This has already been explained to you. Do you ignore it? Also, Jesus had no sin.

Sorry, I am new here. How do I find the explanation. I didn't ignore it, just didn't see it.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Okay...so all 1700 interpretations of the New Testament got Acts 2:38 wrong but the Faith Alone Regeneration Theology people got it right.

No actually the earlier english texts got it correct.

Repent ye and let every one of you.

the Ye makes it different

Just like all 1700 interpretations of the New Testament got John 1:1 wrong but the Jehovah Witnesses got it right.

John 1: 1 does not contradict john 1: 12 or John 3 or John 4 or John 5 or John 6 like your interpretation of acts 2 does.

but nice try

Proving that something can be twisted to mean something else is a weak argument.


Again, no Bible translates this verse in the manner that you are pushing. Only those of your ilk suggest such a understanding.

Your "2nd person, third person, singular and plural nonsense has been addressed in the 1700 translations of the New Testament and again none of them translate the verse in such a bizarre way.

We do not need to "address" something that has already been addressed 1700 times.

No

But you have to adress everythign else.

like why was baptism not mentioned in all these passages.

John 1: 11: 11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12. But AS MANY AS HAVE RECIEVED HIM, to THEM he gave the right to become children, even TO THEM WHO BELIEVE 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (no works)

John 3, FOR God so loved the world he gave his only son that WHOEVER BELIEVES (trusts) in him will NEVER PERISH, and LIVE FOREVER (eternal life) for the son was not sent to judge, but that the world might be saved, he who BELIEVES is NOT CONDEMNED, he who does not believe is condemned already (no works)

John 4: 13 Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will NEVER THIRST. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into EVERLASTING LIFE” (no works)

John 5: 24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he whoever HEARS MY WORD and BELIEVES IN HIM WHO SENT ME who sent Me HAS ETERNAL LIFE and SHALL NOT COME INTO JUDGMENT but HAS PASSED FROM DEATH TO LIFE (No works)

John 6: 35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. HE WHO COMES TO ME shall NEVER HUNGER and he who BELIEVES IN ME shall NEVER THIRST (NO WORKS)

John 6: 37: and THE ONE WHO COMES TO ME I WILL BY NO MEANS CAST OUT 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, thatof all He has given Me I SHAL LOSE NOTHING, but SHOULD RAISE IT UP ON THE LAST DAY. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that EVERYONE WHO SEES AND BELIEVES IN HIM MAY HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE AND I WILL (NOT MIGHT) RAISE HIM ON THE LAST DAY (NO WORKS)

John 6: 47 Most assuredly, I say to you, HE WHO BELIEVES IN ME HAS EVERLASTING LIFE. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that THAT ONE MAY EAT OF IT AND NOT DIE 51 am the living bread which came down from heaven. IF ANYONE EATS THIS BREAD HE WILL LIVE FOREVER (NO WORKS)

John 6: 63 It is the SPIRIT WHO GIVES LIFE ; the flesh profits nothing. THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK to you ARE SPIRIT AND THEY ARE LIFE (SIGNIFYING THE BREAD FROM HEAVEN, THE FLESH AND BOOD ARE THE WORDS JESUS SPOKE. NOT THE PHYSICAL FOOD OR WORKS,)

EPH 1: 13 In Him YOU ALSO TRUSTED , after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also ,HAVING BELIEVED YOU WERE SEALED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT OF PROMISE 14 who IS THE GAURANTEE OF OUR INHERITANCE until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

THE INHERITANCE HE SAID WE ALREADY HAD IN THE 1ST 12 VERSES. (AGAIN, NO WORKS)

eph 2: 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses,MADE US ALIVE together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and RAISED US UP TOGETHER , and MADE US SIT TOGETHER IN HEAVENLY PLACES 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For BY GRACE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED (A COMPLETED ACTION) THROUGH FAITH , (AS MANY AS HAVE RECIEVED) and that NOT OF YOURSELVES ; it IS THE GIFT OF GOD, 9 NOT OF WORKS LEST ANYONE SHOULD BOAST (NO WORKS)

rom 4: 3 For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD AND HE ACOUNTED IT TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.” 4 Now TO HIM WHO WORKS, THE WAGES ARE NOT COUNTED AS GRACE BUT DEBT (Works cancels out grace. and makes it a wage) 5 But TO HIM WHO DOES NOT WORK but BELIEVES ON HIM WHO JUSTIFIES THE UNGOLDY , his HIS FAITH IS ACCOUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS (AGAIN NO WORKS. PERIOD)

rom 4: 16 Therefore IT IF OF FAITH THAT IT MAY BE ACCORDING TO GRACE , so that THE PROMISE MAY BE SURE TO ALL THE SEED not only to those who are of the law, but also TO THOSE WHO ARE OF THE FAITH OF ABRAHAM , who is the father of us all (AGAIN, NO WORKS, IT IS OF GRACE THROUGH FAITH)

Rom 4: 23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but ALSO FOR US, IT SHALL BE IMPUTED TO US WHO BELIEVE IN HIM WHO RAISED UP JESUS OUR LORD FROM THE DEAD , 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was RAISED BECAUSE OF OUR JUSTIFICATION (AGAIN NO WORKS)

Rom 11: 6 And IF BY GRACE, THAN IT IS NO LONGER OF WORKS, ; otherwise GRACE IS NO LONGER GRACE.But IF IT IS OF WORKS, THEN IT IS NO LONGER OF GRACE. OTHERWISE WORK IS NO LONGER WORK (AS i HAVE SAID NUMEROUS TIME, GRACE + WORKS = WORKS.. GRACE AND WORKS CAN NOT MIX IN THE AREA OF SALVATION. ITS LIKE MIXING OIL AND WATER)

2 Tim 1: 9 who HAS SAVED US (A COMPLETED ACTION) and called us with a holy calling, NOT ACCORDING TO OUR WORKS , but ACCORDING TO HIS OWN PURPOSE AND GRACE which was GIVEN TO US in Christ Jesus BEFORE TIME BEGAN (AGAIN, NO WORKS. BUT GRACE)

Titus 3: 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS (GOOD DEEDS) WHICH WE HAVE DONE , but ACCORDING TO HIS MERCY HE SAVED US through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that HAVING BEEN JUSTIFIED BY HIS GRACE we should become HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE
(AGAIN, NO QUESTION HERE. PAUL LEAVES NO QUESTION. NO GOOD DEED CAN SAVE US,. WE ARE SAVED BY GODS MERCY, AND GIVEN THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE. WHICH IS PROMISED BEFORE TIME BEGAN

Titus 1: 2 in HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE which GOD WHO CAN NOT LIE PROMISED BEFORE TIME BEGAN

this is what our faith is in, the grace and mercy of God. not our deeds.

we do not make doctrines out of one small verse..

 

[TishnTexas]

Don't you believe Jesus was/is without sin?

I do believe Jesus was/is without sin. Even John objected to baptizing Jesus (Matt 3:13) because Jesus was without sin. But I do believe that Jesus needed to experience everything mankind experiences (pain, deprivation, etc) so that when we try to excuse our sins by saying "because of this or that", we know Jesus (as man) experienced it too and yet still walked perfectly with God.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

While I agree with those who say WORKS do not save us. I do believe acknowledging Jesus as the Son of God and baptism are required. Jesus stated to John "..it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness" Matt 3-15 before the resurrection. After the resurrection and encountering Jesus on the road to Damascus, Saul received the Holy Spirit and was baptized Acts 9:18. Saul, who preached it is not by works and fought against the need for gentiles to be circumcised (as a work), felt it was needed. Baptism is not a "work" but a cleansing much like the angel of the Lord (again my opinion but I believe this to be Jesus) taking Joshua's filthy clothes (sin) Zech 3: 3-4).

you can answer also.

why did Jesu snot mention water baptism i9n any of these passages concerning being made a child of God and born agai8n?

John 1: 11: 11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12. But AS MANY AS HAVE RECIEVED HIM, to THEM he gave the right to become children, even TO THEM WHO BELIEVE 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (no works)

John 3, FOR God so loved the world he gave his only son that WHOEVER BELIEVES (trusts) in him will NEVER PERISH, and LIVE FOREVER (eternal life) for the son was not sent to judge, but that the world might be saved, he who BELIEVES is NOT CONDEMNED, he who does not believe is condemned already (no works)

John 4: 13 Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will NEVER THIRST. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into EVERLASTING LIFE” (no works)

John 5: 24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he whoever HEARS MY WORD and BELIEVES IN HIM WHO SENT ME who sent Me HAS ETERNAL LIFE and SHALL NOT COME INTO JUDGMENT but HAS PASSED FROM DEATH TO LIFE (No works)

John 6: 35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. HE WHO COMES TO ME shall NEVER HUNGER and he who BELIEVES IN ME shall NEVER THIRST (NO WORKS)

John 6: 37: and THE ONE WHO COMES TO ME I WILL BY NO MEANS CAST OUT 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, thatof all He has given Me I SHAL LOSE NOTHING, but SHOULD RAISE IT UP ON THE LAST DAY. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that EVERYONE WHO SEES AND BELIEVES IN HIM MAY HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE AND I WILL (NOT MIGHT) RAISE HIM ON THE LAST DAY (NO WORKS)

John 6: 47 Most assuredly, I say to you, HE WHO BELIEVES IN ME HAS EVERLASTING LIFE. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that THAT ONE MAY EAT OF IT AND NOT DIE 51 am the living bread which came down from heaven. IF ANYONE EATS THIS BREAD HE WILL LIVE FOREVER (NO WORKS)

John 6: 63 It is the SPIRIT WHO GIVES LIFE ; the flesh profits nothing. THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK to you ARE SPIRIT AND THEY ARE LIFE (SIGNIFYING THE BREAD FROM HEAVEN, THE FLESH AND BOOD ARE THE WORDS JESUS SPOKE. NOT THE PHYSICAL FOOD OR WORKS,)

I will leaves pauls words out for now

 

[TishnTexas]

Oops! Don’t zag where you should have zigged. The conclusion that harmonizes rather than double-thinks is that Paul viewed WB as a good work or way of professing saving faith.

Would you elaborate on your point. I don't understand.