Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Cameron143]

What don't you understand?

The Lord Jesus Christ died for ALL. Sin is finished.

The Lord Jesus Christ was also........Jesus. 100% humanity. He related to humanity. He told humanity things from His humanity...

You fall flat on your face from the start.

Please, understand this.

At least I can answer questions. Do you understand the question? What scripture is not of the things of the Spirit?

 

[Magenta]

At least I can answer questions. Do you understand the question? What scripture is not of the things of the Spirit?

I wonder what fantasy world he lives in where sin is finished.

2 Corinthians 4 v 4The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

 

[rogerg]

Just another verse/s for some to mock and scoff at, pretending dead means physical death, so they talk of corpses and tell others
to go preach in cemeteries, and then they lie about conflating spiritual death with physical death. They have zero integrity.

If not being spiritually dead, then why does God make those whom He saves(spiritually) born again?

 

[Jordon]

The incurably wicked heart of the unregenerated man is stony ground incapable of growing the seed of God's Word into the good
fruit of faith. Nothing good can come from a bad tree and there are none good to start with. First the physical, then the spiritual...

I sense with some it is about having empathy for the natural man, it's almost like they think your not being Christian or something because they feel your not showing enough love for the natural man.

I could be wrong but there's so many different beliefs out there.
With others it seems to be a person growing faith is the main reason they get saved, and that somehow or other your leaving that out.

With others it seems to be about just not believing in your faith all together.

And others just can't seem to want to understand a person has no real freedom because they can make a free choice.

I don't know what to make of it all really, it could be childish or to many people are just very sensitive I don't know but really the best thing to do is just treat it as a pinch of salt.

 

[Magenta]

I sense with some it is about having empathy for the natural man, it's almost like they think your not being Christian or something because they feel your not showing enough love for the natural man.

I could be wrong but there's so many different beliefs out there.
With others it seems to be a person growing faith is the main reason they get saved, and that somehow or other your leaving that out.

With others it seems to be about just not believing in your faith all together.

And others just can't seem to want to understand a person has no real freedom because they can make a free choice.

I don't know what to make of it all really, it could be childish or to many people are just very sensitive I don't know but really the best thing to do is just treat it as a pinch of salt.

The sad and very simple fact is they reject what Scripture explicitly articulates.

They could come up with a million reasons why. The end result would be the same...

 

[Jordon]

The sad and very simple fact is they reject what Scripture explicitly articulates.

They could come up with a million reasons why. The end result would be the same...

yep there's definitely some hostility going on with wanting to reach agreement.

 

[Magenta]

yep there's definitely some hostility going on with wanting to reach agreement.

I will not agree with their contradictions and denials of what Scripture explicitly articulates.

Nor will I endorse their need to rewrite what they do not like to suit their vanity.

 

[cv5]

At least I can answer questions. Do you understand the question? What scripture is not of the things of the Spirit?

Of course you can. You only "ask questions" that you and you alone intend on answering with pre-packaged determinist dogma.

These are not "honest questions", they are "set ups". A frame-up job fit for a con-man. You are not seeking answers, you are seeking to ensnare the unwary and ignorant.

 

[Jordon]

I will not agree with their contradictions and denials of what Scripture explicitly articulates.

Nor will I endorse their need to rewrite what they do not like to suit their vanity.

I like that strong will,

But you have to look after yourself to, as you could be dealing with people who just will not accept.

There are people out there that will just not believe.
As long as your ok and you can handle it, as in you can end up becoming overworked and exhausted mentally trying to fight this many people dealing with to many opinions all at once can take it's toll, especially since there not listening, that you care about all the things they say you don't.

It bogs a person down after a while that.

Just let it go and put your feet up for a bit and have a nice coffee

 

[cv5]

I sense with some it is about having empathy for the natural man, it's almost like they think your not being Christian or something because they feel your not showing enough love for the natural man.

I could be wrong but there's so many different beliefs out there.
With others it seems to be a person growing faith is the main reason they get saved, and that somehow or other your leaving that out.

With others it seems to be about just not believing in your faith all together.

And others just can't seem to want to understand a person has no real freedom because they can make a free choice.

I don't know what to make of it all really, it could be childish or to many people are just very sensitive I don't know but really the best thing to do is just treat it as a pinch of salt.

The determinists "natural man" myth has been conclusively debunk 1000 times already on this thread. Try and keep up.

 

[Jordon]

The determinists "natural man" myth has been conclusively debunk 1000 times already on this thread. Try and keep up.

your doing a lot of damage to this lady.

Why don't you let it go

 

[cv5]

your doing a lot of damage to this lady.
Why don't you let it go

Any damage done by the truth is the right kind of damage.

 

[Magenta]

I like that strong will,

But you have to look after yourself to, as you could be dealing with people who just will not accept.

There are people out there that will just not believe.
As long as your ok and you can handle it, as in you can end up becoming overworked and exhausted mentally trying to fight this many people dealing with to many opinions all at once can take it's toll, especially since there not listening, that you care about all the things they say you don't.

It bogs a person down after a while that.

Just let it go and put your feet up for a bit and have a nice coffee

I only drink coffee in the morning, and not even every day at that...

As to all the lies and hate, well, it affects them, it is their heart carrying that load.

That is why I said they needed Jesus. He invites those who are heavy laden to find their rest in Him.

I already have. I do appreciate your concern. You are very kind, sir. It is like a port in the storm...

 

[Jordon]

I only drink coffee in the morning, and not even every day at that...

As to all the lies and hate, well, it affects them, it is their heart carrying that load.

That is why I said they needed Jesus. He invites those who are heavy laden to find their rest in Him.

I already have. I do appreciate your concern. You are very kind, sir. It is like a port in the storm...

He needs to own up and take responsibility for his actions,

And if he any sought of real man he should quit and let it go.
But probably the drama queen type . So I doubt he could.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

What a ridiculous statement! You don't know what they "understood". You're arguing from silence!

nope ... have you ever read what the chief priests and the elders did when they were told the Lord Jesus Christ had indeed risen from the dead?

Matthew 28:

11 Now when they were going, behold, some of the watch came into the city, and shewed unto the chief priests all the things that were done.

12 And when they were assembled with the elders, and had taken counsel, they gave large money unto the soldiers,

13 Saying, Say ye, His disciples came by night, and stole him away while we slept.

14 And if this come to the governor's ears, we will persuade him, and secure you.

15 So they took the money, and did as they were taught: and this saying is commonly reported among the Jews until this day.

the chief priests and the elders knew the Scriptures concerning Messiah ... the chief priests and the elders knew what the Lord Jesus Christ had preached ... they rejected their "come to Jesus" moment and spread lies ... nothing has changed ... you read or hear the news ... lies being told in our day and time for large sums of money.

Moreover, I can just as easily posit that they didn't have any true understanding, otherwise they would not have mocked Paul or the gospel!

they understood ... they suppressed the truth in unrighteousness, mocked the message ... and unless they repented at some later time, they received the consequence of their having rejected.

Acts 17:

32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again of this matter.

33 So Paul departed from among them.

34 Howbeit certain men clave unto him, and believed: among the which was Dionysius the Areopagite, and a woman named Damaris, and others with them.

vs 32 – some suppressed the truth in unrighteousness and mocked ... some said "we will hear thee again of this matter".

vs 34 – those who believed received salvation ... the promise of God to those who believe.

so the record shows that some rejected out of hand ... others wanted to hear more ... others believed.

And I have scripture to support my position, which ironically is in the larger context of 1Cor 2! See v. 8.

1 Corinthians 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

again, Paul transitions from the gospel and the milk of the word at vs 6. 1 Cor 2:8 refers to Scripture which goes beyond the scope of the gospel.

vs 8 clearly states that the princes of this world did not know whatever is spoken of in vs 7. if vs 8 referred to the gospel, there would have been no attempt by the chief priests and elders to pay off the Roman soldiers to lie concerning the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ from the dead.

fyi ... belief of the gospel is the first step ... once a person is born again, he or she moves on to the milk of the Word, which was taught by Paul in the general congregation at the church in Corinth.

However, at vs 6, Scripture tells us Paul met with more mature believers to discuss deeper truths ... the meat of the Word which none of the princes of this world knew ... and if they had known it, they never would have crucified the Lord Jesus Christ. The Lord Jesus Christ never hid the gospel truth. Whatever is under discussion in vs 8 is definitely not the gospel, notwithstanding your insistence to the contrary.
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[reneweddaybyday]

The suppression of truth is as natural to fallen man as breathing air.

and I would be in full agreement with you if God had not revealed in Scripture that mankind can know good.

(After all men naturally love the darkness, not the Light!) This is what man's wicked heart does -- suppresses truth! And that cannot be changed, until God gives his chosen vessels a new heart, instills the Fear of Himself in their heart and circumcises their heart.

And my belief is that God reaches out to mankind first ... mankind either believes the truth or suppresses the truth in unrighteousness.

Those who are not born again can believe the truth of Scripture ... some folks who are not born again can believe in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth ... thou shalt not steal ... thou shalt not murder ... etc., etc.

When it comes to the gospel, if a person believes, then God gives increase ... the person is born again ... new heart ... new man which God begins to conform to the image of His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.

And I believe this same scenario occurs over and over and over during the lifetime of a person (not the born again part – a person is only born again once) ... but each and every time a truth from Scripture is believed, God gives increase in the heart of the one who believes ... even unbelievers. But those unbelievers who suppress the truth in unrighteousness when it comes to the gospel ... they are not born again and the ultimate consequence is lake of fire due to rejection of the only One Whose Name is the only Name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
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[Jordon]

I only drink coffee in the morning, and not even every day at that...

As to all the lies and hate, well, it affects them, it is their heart carrying that load.

That is why I said they needed Jesus. He invites those who are heavy laden to find their rest in Him.

I already have. I do appreciate your concern. You are very kind, sir. It is like a port in the storm...

here's a nice song for ya only one moody blues I like

Go in peace magenta

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Here we see we are all born children of wrath which is not only addressing gentiles but The Jews who where to receive there inheritance, but also the ones who had already.

All descendants of Adam are born in the state shown in Eph 2:1-3.

These are all the actions of the heart of stone that God removes in Ezekiel, then when you read Paul teaching it speaks of how the lord can harden hearts even more.

So what is the lord also able to harden the heart in,..if we believe the lord is only able to harden the heart in unbelief then what does that make our lord out to be.

Because pharo is not the only person to have his heart hardened.

So being hardened with a heart of stone could include other reason. It may be so that are nature doesn't consume us completely.

have you considered the fact that God indicates mankind can know good?

If and when God reaches out, a person can believe God and if that person believes, do you believe God hardens that person's heart.

If and when God reaches out, the one who suppresses the truth in unrighteousness is the one whose heart can be hardened ... it's up to God whether He will harden or whether He will not harden. I do not believe God will harden the heart of natural man who does believe what God says in Scripture. I do believe there are verses in Scripture that do not require in-depth spiritual understanding to believe ... honour your father and mother is one that comes to mind.

I do believe that to be born again, a person must believe the gospel of Christ, which is the power of God unto salvation to those who believe.

Romans 10:9-11 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
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[reneweddaybyday]

are you saying by nature sometimes the the natural man will give a correct response ?

yes ... but with the caveat that it is God Who reaches out first ... mankind by nature does not seek God first. God has reached out by authoring Scripture ... God sends His faithful believers to preach ... God's Word tells us the heavens declare the glory of God.

I also believe God has placed faith in each and every descendant of Adam ... just as God gave mankind intellect with which to think and reason, God gave to mankind faith with which to believe. It's not that God gives faith to you so you can believe or God does not give faith to me so I cannot believe.

mankind can either believe truth or lies. the more truth we believe, the better off we are ... the more lies we believe, the worse off we are.

if and when we believe the truth of Scripture, God gives increase ... He strengthens faith within. We do not receive more "faith" ... we become stronger and stronger in faith.

That's why we have some who are weak in faith and some who are strong in faith. It is the Object of faith which is the determining factor.

and then we have the work of the law written in the heart of all mankind ... which is another truth which should be considered in the whole subject under discussion.

But sometimes is not good enough.

belief in the gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation to those who believe is "good enough".

and please note ... it is not the believing which saves a person ... it is God Who saves the person. God is the One Who saved by grace through faith.

also note that Scripture is clear that faith is not works (Rom 4).
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[reneweddaybyday]

Why do you change the verse. It says it is foolishness to those who are perishing. That's anyone who isn't saved. That's who the verse includes.

when I answered as to "who" your reply was:

Sure. But the question is not who, but why?

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when I answer "why" you switch to "who".

read the verses and you will see the why ... I bolded and changed the font to red so you could see "why".

You guys are the best dancers I have ever met.

when you quit changing the music ... you'll be in the groove

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