Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Magenta]

Or, God is already at work in them. We don't dismiss biblical truth because we see something that appears contradictory. It is biblically true that the natural man is hostile in his mind against God. Further, there are plenty of unbelievers running churches. Because you go to church or do religious activities, an unbeliever gets taken out of the category of...hostile to God? Y'all are big on verses. Perhaps show that verse.

The heretic we have been talking to does not believe in Spiritual revelation. There is no need for it in her theology.

The unregenerated natural man has everything he needs according to her.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Or, God is already at work in them. We don't dismiss biblical truth because we see something that appears contradictory.

yes you do. you claim the only response of natural man to God's Word is rejection ... and you have been shown that is not the only response. You reject what is plainly written in Scripture.

Romans 1:16-19 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

only two responses:

believe and receive the blessing;

reject and receive the consequence

It is biblically true that the natural man is hostile in his mind against God.

It is biblically true that mankind has knowledge of good ... mankind has knowledge of the opposite of evil.
.

 

[HeIsHere]

Why are you classifying everything. Just answer and respond to what I write. Answer my question please.

Defending the Gospel is the only important matter here...

“Through faith” is the instrumental cause of “made alive.”
Instrumental must precede precedes its effect by logic and necessity
Therefore, faith precedes regeneration.

 

[Magenta]

Here's a novel idea that would make your verbose word salad above unnecessary: Natural
Man = earthly [dead] man without the Spirit of Life within him. See how simple that was?

They don't do the simplicity of Scripture. They have been taught to mangle and garble it
and make it mean what it does not say so it fits how they have been programmed to think.

 

[cv5]

Good point, such a misapplied verse almost laughable.

Everything determinist would be laughable if it were not so tragic.
But what's worse is the willful obfuscation. This is of course their CHOICE.

 

[Magenta]

Defending the Gospel is the only important matter here...

Oh? Have you given up pretending you are defending God's character while you slander Him?

 

[Intersection]

Since humble men end up as winners how then are you accusing me of not being humble?

You are humbly under our control.

 

[Cameron143]

yes you do. you claim the only response of natural man to God's Word is rejection ... and you have been shown that is not the only response. You reject what is plainly written in Scripture.

Romans 1:16-19 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

only two responses:

believe and receive the blessing;

reject and receive the consequence





It is biblically true that mankind has knowledge of good ... mankind has knowledge of the opposite of evil.
.

Read Romans 8:7-9. Unless you don't believe the natural man is carnal, he is hostile to God whether sitting in church, behind a pulpit, giving philanthropically, or openly hostile. The location doesn't change the truth about an individual.

 

[Cameron143]

Defending the Gospel is the only important matter here...

“Through faith” is the instrumental cause of “made alive.”
Instrumental must precede precedes its effect by logic and necessity
Therefore, faith precedes regeneration.

Because you say? I make a claim. You ask for scripture. I give you the scriptures. You refuse to believe.

Made alive is quickening. No mention of faith in verses that speak of quickening; God simply makes them alive from a dead estate.

 

[Magenta]

Why are you classifying everything. Just answer and respond to what I write. Answer my question please.

Your methods are mocked and denigrated. Well, I made that comment a while ago concerning people
denigrating your method of asking questions, and the other (someone else) told me he had been told
he was denigrating you. Hmmmm. This is the type of lack of comprehension we deal with. What is said
get subtly twisted and they refuse to acknowledge what was actually said. FWers do the same with
Scripture, and then want others to believe their level of understanding is beyond the need for scrutiny.
Although subtle twisting is not always the case. They seem to prefer contradicting and outright denying.

 

[HeIsHere]

Everything determinist would be laughable if it were not so tragic.
But what's worse is the willful obfuscation. This is of course their CHOICE.

Agree, I think the lame effort to defend Sproul Jr. on here really showed me how tragic it is.
Not denouncing this idea that a 10 year old girl earned (murder, torture, rape) her judgement.
Sick, truly sick.

Yes, the willful obfuscation brings it to another level.

The level of work and insight by you, @studier @reneweddaybyday @Mem and @Pilgrimshope @Kroogz to denounce this
NON - Good News is far way and above anything they have been able to produce.

I certainly see now how these two soteriologies are diametrically opposed to each other,
only one really proclaims the true GOOD News coming from a God who IS Love, Light and Truth and does not play favorites with the gift of salvation.

 

[Magenta]

Read Romans 8:7-9. Unless you don't believe the natural man is carnal, he is hostile to God whether sitting in church,
behind a pulpit, giving philanthropically, or openly hostile. The location doesn't change the truth about an individual.

from-John14-17 etc

 

[HeIsHere]

Because you say? I make a claim. You ask for scripture. I give you the scriptures. You refuse to believe.

Made alive is quickening. No mention of faith in verses that speak of quickening; God simply makes them alive from a dead estate.

Faith must by necessity must precede regeneration, faith is an instrument, not a state of being.

Capisci!

 

[HeIsHere]

Because you say? I make a claim. You ask for scripture. I give you the scriptures. You refuse to believe.

Made alive is quickening. No mention of faith in verses that speak of quickening; God simply makes them alive from a dead estate.

Yeah I am deliberating whether to spend the time.

 

[Magenta]

Faith must by necessity must precede regeneration, faith is an instrument, not a state of being.

Capisci!

Is that the Italian in you again? Ah, yes, the non-gift of faith, which in your theology is not a good thing.

1 Corinthians 4 verse 7b; John 3 verse 27; Romans 9 verses 15-16 ~ What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did also receive it, why do you boast as not having received it? John replied, "A man can receive only that which is given him from heaven." "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." So then, it does not depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.

 

[Magenta]

Pelagian heretics insist man is inherently good. From within the hearts of men come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, wickedness, deceit, debauchery, envy, slander, arrogance, and foolishness. Mark 7 verses 21-22 Every inclination of man's heart is evil from his youth. Genesis 8 verse 21b Who can bring out clean from unclean? No one! Job 14 verse 4 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Matthew 7 verse 18

 

[Magenta]

Romans 7 v 14, John 8 v 34, Jeremiah 13 v 23, Romans 3 v 10 ~ We know that the law is spiritual; but
I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin.” Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? Neither are you able to do good - you who are accustomed to doing evil. There is no one righteous, not even one.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I don't hink where on the same page.

No matter it's ok

well, at the very least I hope/pray you consider the verses and what occurred back then ... that the people removed themselves further away than the boundary set by God.

To answer your question who's act of faith was counted as righteousness was Abraham.

I thought that was the case ... and I would like to clarify ... are you claiming that out of all the men and women of faith we read about in the OT, none of their acts of faith were counted as righteousness?

But the most convincing scripture that i believe who the lord will decide who will be his children is this, God took Abraham outside and he said look up to sky son, you see all those stars, your offspring will be as numerous as those stars.

Important to note here is God is telling this knowing his future and his off
springs future.

And Abraham believed, and so God accounted that to him for righteousness.

Genesis 17:

15 And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be.

16 And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her.

17 Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall a child be born unto him that is an hundred years old? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear?

18 And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee!

19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.

20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.

21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.

Abraham laughed ... the name "Isaac" means "he laughs".

When Abraham prayed for Ishmael, God said He had blessed Ishmael and will make him fruitful and multiply him.

But God's covenant was with Isaac.

Its important to understand here at the moment in which the lord accounted Abraham belief for righteousness, that what is really meant here is the lords righteousness

yes ... Abraham's faith resulted in God's righteousness imputed to Abraham.

Romans 4:20-24 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead

righteousness is imputed to all who believe "on Him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead".
.

 

[Cameron143]

Faith must by necessity must precede regeneration, faith is an instrument, not a state of being.

Capisci!

Faith is never formed in spiritually dead people. Life is necessary for faith. Faith is the instrumentality of grace to produce salvation. Why do you change what scripture says?

 

[Cameron143]

Yeah I am deliberating whether to spend the time.

Don't bother. It will be more erroneous conjecture apart from what scripture states.