Be honest Cameron. You're saying in the deterministic sense that God creates a new heart so men can believe because you believe in Reformed Total Depravity. You sneak in words of determinism and equate them to words that are not automatically deterministic. That's the shell game you've been accused of.
Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
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Be honest Cameron. You're saying in the deterministic sense that God creates a new heart so men can believe because you believe in Reformed Total Depravity. You sneak in words of determinism and equate them to words that are not automatically deterministic. That's the shell game you've been accused of.
"Saving faith" is not an expression found in scripture. So, I guess your own mouth condemns you since you don't possess "saving faith" either! Your faith must be on the same order as the demons'!
Pay attention. My faith would certainly be considered reformed. I have told you this on several occasions. But I came to understanding just as you, independently of reformed teaching. Whatever commonality I share with Calvin came not as a result of a study of Calvin, but a study of scriptures. There is no Cameronism. There is truth. I don't profess to know all truth. I'm in daily pursuit of it. And you should know by this time, while TULIP is ascribed to Calvin, he didn't make it up. But I do find the use of it antithetical to honest discussion and so I don't use the terminology often.
Jesus said He came to open the eyes of the blind and unstop the ears of the deaf. Unfortunately these heretics do not believe man is born blind and deaf. They claim everyone hears when Jesus said otherwise. It is preposterous that they put themselves forward as the ones who believe Scripture. They assert than unregenerated man chooses to believe that which he is inherently opposed to with his incurably wicked heart, which hears the gospel as foolishness. There is simply no getting around the fact that this is the core of their belief, and it flies in the face of what Scripture actually teaches.
YOU didn't! You gave all the credit to man's "freewill" since man makes the difference.
And now that hypocrite doesn't want to own what he said a few months ago. He wants to distance himself from it and pretend that he really does give God all the credit for his salvation.
unbelievers can be convicted by Holy Spirit and still suppress the truth in unrighteousness ... look at the current state of affairs when it comes to the shenanigans going on in our day. People screaming in the faces of ... attacking ... killing ... imprisoning ... those who stand for the truth of God's Word ... no one likes it when their sin is exposed ... it pricks them in their hearts.
For the one who believes the Word, they turn to the Lord and receive the blessing promised.
For the one who suppresses the truth in unrighteousness, their anger is directed at the messenger who is proclaiming God's Word. And Scripture warns us this will be the case so we should not be surprised ... Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived – 2 Tim 3:12-13.
Peter taught the gospel again in Acts 3:11-26 and in Acts 4:1-3 we read that the priests, the captain of the temple, and the Sadducees we grieved because Peter taught the people, and preached through Jesus the resurrection from the dead ... they clearly understood the message ... and they rejected.
So when someone comes along and says that the gospel can't be heard or can't be understood by the unbeliever, I will continue to speak truth to that lie. The gospel can be understood ... the gospel is not hid by God ... and those who insist that the gospel is successfully hid by satan are by default claiming that satan has defeated God ... when that is not the case at all ... because the message is heard and understood and God allows mankind to suppress the truth in unrighteousness and receive the consequence of their unbelief ... and clearly those who imprisoned Peter in Acts 4 understood the message.
For those who believed what Peter preached in Acts 3, many of them which heard the word believed; and the number of the men was about five thousand – Acts 4:4.
And those who rejected are the ones spoken of in Rom 1:18-19. And if God's Word continues to be rejected, Rom 1:20-32 tells us the consequence of their rejection.Cameron143 said:
And those who believed are the ones spoken of in Rom 1:16-17.
There are only 2 responses to God's Word ... believe or suppress the truth in unrighteousness.
Those who believe receive the blessing.
Those who reject receive the consequence.
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Soooo triggered.. only a person who has no case reacts this way, would you prefer the term "initial faith" that is spoken of in Ephesians 2:8.
Well, some say God does this and that, and the other thing, and somehow all the this and that and the other things which God does is received, in their theology, by the man who can neither receive nor comprehend all the this and that and other things which God does, so really they make no sense at all. Yet somehow it makes perfect sense to them, and their theology is based on, that people will wilfully choose to believe what they consider to be foolishness.
You say be honest as if I have been anything but. If you believe I've used deterministic terminology, how did I sneak it in if you know about it?
I do believe in the depravity of man. Not that his faculties are gone, however, but that they are all corrupted. Total depravity doesn't mean that man's faculties no longer function, but that every faculty has been affected. Thus, man's mind can no longer understand spiritual truth and his heart is vile and wicked.
Nobody denies that God was (and still is) active ... all who have posted in this thread believe God reaches out first (with the exception of the_seeker ... don't recall if there are others) ... then mankind responds by either believing or suppressing the truth in unrighteousness.
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There is no evidence from the scripture you shared that there were some under the conviction of the Spirit rejected God. Do you know of any others that say those under conviction by the Spirit rejected God and suppressed the truth?
Romans 1 isn't even talking about people under conviction. It's talking about those who through natural revelation know of the existence of God and reject Him.
except when you decide it doesn't ... the parable of the samaritan comes to mind ... I still don't know if you've learned the lesson of that parable as you treat fellow believers worse than the priest and the levite who passed by the victim with no care or concern for him ... these things ought not so to be.
maybe you believe you don't have to follow the instruction in Scripture concerning how believers are to treat others ... because you're (cough, cough) "elect" ...
Ephesians 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying [building up], that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
not to worry, Rufus ... you are not alone in your tearing down what God tells us to build up.
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First, a little information re: Acts13:48 to show the translation "appoint" has not always been set in stone:
Chrysostom (4th c.)
- In his Homilies on Acts (Homily 29), he comments:
- “Observe how he shows the Gentiles themselves also to be well-disposed (εὔθετοι) to receive the faith…”
- Chrysostom interprets Acts 13:48 as describing those who were disposed/inclined toward eternal life, not as a decree of predestination.
- On Acts 13:48, he paraphrases:
- “Those who were disposed to eternal life believed.”
- Again, focus on human readiness/disposition under God’s convicting work.
- Rendered Acts 13:48 as:
- “As many as were disposed to eternal life believed.”
- He argued tassō here is in the middle/reflexive sense — “set themselves, disposed themselves.”
- Even modern translations have preserved this:
- “…as many as were ordained to eternal life believed” with a footnote: “Or, disposed.”
The people who were not Jews were pleased with what they heard and praised the Lord's word. Everyone who had been prepared for everlasting life believed.
Mace New Testament
when the Gentiles heard this, they received the word with joy, glorifying the Lord: and as many as were dispos'd to eternal life, believed.
Bauer-Danker, Greek-English Lexicon of the NT (BDAG)
[BDAG] τάσσω (tassō) (main definition headings only):
1. to bring about an order of things by arranging, arrange, put in place
2. to give instructions as to what must be done, order, fix, determine, appoint (My Note: Note how "appoint" is defined)
There are reasons to inspect the translations here, no matter how many opted for "appointed" or "ordained".
I noticed the issue some time ago because I place great value on Acts13 as the most complete and comprehensive record of Paul's missionary evangelism message we have.
There's an interesting verb structure in Acts13:48 that Luke uses. One issue is that it's calling attention to this verb tassō. In the discussion about the verse that @cv5 linked, one of the participants picked this up. IMO it's important, unusual, and the timing and parsing of this verb Luke is using is very informative.
I'll continue as I have time.
You are again applying verses that speak of natural revelation to the gospel. Two different things. In Romans 1, there is no mention of spiritual activity of God.
I went through Acts 2:37 and showed the activity of God in bringing an individual to faith. Accept it or don't. Many some are suppressing these truths.
rolleyes ... no one has claimed that Adam "sacrificed" himself ... all agree Adam sinned ... what has been claimed is that Adam ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and became one flesh with his wife after she ate of the tree.
God is the One Whose offering was "sacrificed" for both Adam and Eve. Apparently, God's sacrifice was insufficient in your eyes ... smh ...
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