Jesus said everyone given to Him by God will come to Him. Nothing about it being
made possible to. I believe Him over you. Everybody should. So much for you
affirming the efficacious power and work of God in a person's life.
Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
- Thread starter LifelongLearner
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made possible to. I believe Him over you. Everybody should. So much for you
affirming the efficacious power and work of God in a person's life.
People remain accountable to God because God has revealed Himself through creation and conscience. I believe belief is the moment of salvation. But as I stated, the new heart is necessary to belief. Otherwise, you have people believing while they are still in opposition to God. You have individuals obeying God from a wicked heart.
Perhaps the hard core super-determinist don't want the effective work of the Holy Ghost gumming up their bogus soteriological machinery?
Not only that, the possibility of any Tom, Dick or Harry reprobate sinner (that they say God hates and prefers it that way) actually
"getting saved" might mean that they will need to rub shoulders with these scruffy "non-elected" gate crashers?
I mean if Tom, Dick and Harry actually do not "believe" in the "pre-birth sovereign lottery" Calvinist soteriological method by which THE SUPER-DETERMINISTS SAY salvation is conferred, then they are in fact gate-crashers......right?
Kinda makes me think of these echoes from the past. What do you think?
Act 13:45
But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul (GENTILE SALVATION BY BELIEF, NOT BIRTH, NOR PRE-BIRTH), contradicting and blaspheming.
Act 13:46
Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life (WHOOPS), lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
Act 13:48
And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
Spiritual death is separation from God, not corpse-like death. Separated isn’t the same as corpse.
Well, since it is your belief that it's man's prerogative whether to believe (or not), and by which we become saved, how is it then that we are told in the below verses, first, that we must first be forgiven of sin (saved) in order to gain even a knowledge of salvation in order to believe, without which, we couldn't; and second, that it is given only to "his people", not to everyone
[Luk 1:77-78 KJV]
77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
78 Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,
yes ... should read
no other foundation than the Lord Jesus Christ ... no mixing man's wisdom with the Word of God ... there will be no increase from God.
thanks for the heads-up!
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And this present "limited separation" is conditional, and MAY be reconciled.....or permanent.
Furthermore, it is abundantly clear from Genesis 3 onward that God INTENTIONALLY allowed a conduit to Him.
With the express purpose of healing the breach eventually.
Many in the free will camp reject much if not all that is said of the natural man. He seems not to exist in their
theology. Which really is quite odd given all that is said of him, and how much Scripture portrays of him.
Peter shows us that Jesus offers this to mankind today. Makes sense knowing that God never changes and what He offers as Life then He is offering it today.
The one thing not mentioned is that God also told Moshe should any strangers [non Jew or not abiding to the Law] wants to join to welcome them and hold them to the same Standards.
So we see anyone could simply just join God and His offer to Life. Of course we have several examples throughout the Tanakh of Gentiles becoming the same as those under the Law. They just wanted to join and God said let them because they are ultimately choosing Life.
Faith comes before new life—God empowers people by His Spirit and Gospel to choose to respond in faith.
From which verses did you derive that doctrine?
It does represent a corpse - a spiritual corpse. There were other words God could have used instead but He specifically chose to use dead - He knows what dead means.
Separation from God IS death in its fulness.
Look at Eph 2: 1,5. Do you see that the spiritual corpses (the dead) were not able to contribute anything to being made alive? Nope, they didn't and couldn't. If they could have, that would have been included, but since it was only by God, means they were dead, and as dead incapable of contributing to the process of being made alive.
The verses I provided depict the nature of death, that, for death to be death, it cannot be partial death: the dead are either fully dead, or they are not dead, there is nothing in between.
non-issue, rogerg ... all agree that salvation is wholly from God by grace through faith ...
Luke 1:77-78 are contained in the prophetic words spoken by Zacharias concerning his son, John Baptist (which you would know if you paid attention to context )rogerg said:
Luke 1:
67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,
68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;
72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;
73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,
74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,
75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.
76 And thou, child, [John Baptist] shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;
77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
78 Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,
79 To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.
Luke 1:76-77 states that John Baptist would go before the Lord to prepare His way and John Baptist would give knowledge of salvation through Him.
Luke 1:67-79 tells us the ministry of John Baptist. And fyi ... John Baptist was faithful in fulfilling his ministry.
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Luke 1:77–78 speaks of Christ as the dawn of salvation. The message is about Christ Himself bringing mercy, and forgiveness is proclaimed so people may believe. You're trying to reverse what's said.
We are not under the law today as they were. Our covenant is a covenant of grace. They were under a covenant of works. What God put before them was the law. If they kept the terms of the covenant, the people would prosper and live. If they didn't, calamity and death would ensue.
I say all that to say that the choice wasn't between being saved or not, but between prosperity and physical well-being and calamity and physical death.
To much over thinking is going on from there part, but I also sense this not about just believing God, from them, but believing in your faith personally, from people here.
Where you get debates like that no amount of attempts is going to change how one person believes like you do pet. And as we have seen it can get pretty ugly quite quickly, which it has done.
The key facts is that for generations people have not conformed to the word of God, and only through people going through the mill has it Got easier for people to conform to the will the God.
What would a child do with out anyone to express Gods traits on to them.
That child would no doubt make endless wrong choices.
But because there being given the right choice from there parents, there able to make that right choice, a choice that has been layed on parents hearts for generations, the enabling oracle we talked about, the enabling grace, I believe can be passed on from parent to child.
If there is one believer in a house the house can be sanctified.
No doubt if there parents are saved the same will the fathers has, will be felt in the childs heart as the parent speaks to the child.
The person who is saved can do the will of the father through hearing from him and seeing what he does. But it will be a double whammy, not only will a child get the will relayed through the parent, but also no doubt the father to.
And as Jesus said you can go on to do greater things than me,
That is to assist his father in helping bringing more people to him.
Because without that help as we know from the scripture they will not be led of there own accord and they will be lost, hence why we where given the Gospel as it has the power to save.
The power to break through the darkness the heart of stone.
The really truth of the reality is there is absolutely no way a parent would just sit back and let the child's will be free, the child would run riot.
Like the riot that is taking place here pet.
Guard your heart please and be careful who you share it with here.
He empowers them by giving them new hearts...Ezekiel 36:26-27. That's the new covenant promise.