What i've said doesn't conflict with scripture, if you think it does, then it's up to you to prove it with scripture sweetie.
Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
- Thread starter LifelongLearner
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"Free will" in the Bible? ~ Freedom is something believers are called to (Galatians 5 verse 13). We need Jesus to “set us free” (Galatians 5 verse 1). If Jesus has not freed us from the bondage of sin, then we are still slaves to sin (Romans 6 verses 6-7). Freedom is found in the presence of the Spirit (2 Corinthians 3 verse 17). Only Jesus can give us true freedom (John 8 verse 36). Only through His lovingkindness can we truly make choices unfettered by a nature that is inherently hostile toward God.
Then it should not be difficult for you to show me Scripture that aligns with your opinions.
Aaahhmmm actually no.
It is up to YOU to prove YOUR position. And if you cannot, then, just as in a courtroom, you will lose your case.
You are too kind! Some of these "free willers" cannot even acknowledge that faith is a gift. Even when
Scripture says all good things come from God. They just cannot seem to help themselves open their
eyes to the truth even though they will claim man has everything he needs from birth to see and agree
with the truth. They are actually self-refuting. They say everyone hears when Jesus said otherwise.
They claim the gospel is not hid when Scripture attests otherwise. "They" being used in a general sense.
They claim that for God to act unilaterally makes Him an unjust tyrannical monster kidnapping people
against their free will. That is much more user specific. The same guy who claimed that if God did not
ask Mary's permission then He raped her. He would rather blaspheme God than admit he was wrong.
When people are driving in that lane, you know there is something very, very wrong with them.
Well, you showed up to court with an empty bag. So you have lost.
And also are now on ignore.
Need to think on this comment friend, there are just so many scriptures where He almost pleads with people to cease doing some evil, so He won't have to destroy them.
What i absolutely agree with is that salvation is only possible through Him, but that like Mike Winger says, we can draw close enough to God and He might help us. Hope that makes sense.
There are so many things wrong with that tradition that it's a tremendous amount of work to deal with it. Also, there are several Scriptures that have enough ambiguity that it's not always possible to prove one tradition over another from that one or few verses. Thus, the never-ending battles.
I tapped off one verse that was under discussion earlier here, found some of such sufficient ambiguities, and tracked it through some other Scriptures to see what I might find for a pivot point - something that seems to show why some aspect of this determinism is wrong. I ended that session for now in Gal3:26-27.
26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. (Gal. 3:26-27 NKJ)
These verses are explaining the prior verse that speaks of the new era of grace in Christ.
We become sons of God through Faith in Christ Jesus. This Faith is articular and thus there is some sense of specificity here. It's obviously Faith or Belief in Jesus Christ, but it can also very easily be making clear that it's "your Faith/Belief in Jesus Christ." IOW, this can be very specifically the action of the believer.
3:26 We know that God moves first, so we include that here. God provides the Gospel of His Son > men believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ > God makes believers His sons.
3:27 is explaining this and elaborating it. The direct inference is Gospel > Faith > Baptized INTO Christ > Put on Christ - God's Sons.
Not only do we see how we are put into - entered into - Christ by [the Spirit's] baptism, but if we are not stuck in a deterministic, monergistic mindset, we can see the action > response interaction between God and men.
But the key IMO is the last clause "have put on Christ."
You've done a lot of work on words like "receive" which are active on the part of the person. We can see in this last clause in the English that it also has an active sense. The new believer is clearly said to be clothing himself with Christ.
This is a middle voice verb. The new believer is clothing himself and it has an effect on him.
The point? As I've said before, we are way too hung up on trying to protect God and against a misunderstood concept of "works of law". Paul has no problem showing how this interaction with God is responsive on the part of men. In fact, he can essentially say that this entire process just outlined can be summarized as the new believer clothing himself with Christ.
IMO this destroys monergism.
But for me, just like I really don't care if we speak of human volition apart from the baggage-ridden philosophical phrase "free will", nor do I care for the word "synergism." I don't see it used in Greek prior to salvation. We do not work with God on equal or common grounds in coming to Christ. We respond to grace just as He has designed and implemented. If He wants to give us some credit, and it seems according to Paul that He does, then we take it and say Thank You.
Aww diddums! You spit your dummy out of your pram when you can't control what should be discussion. You can't bear opinions which you don't agree with.
Not sure which comment you mean since I have made several heh.
But Scripture is plain. The natural/unregenerated man CANNOT submit to or obey God.
It is explicitly stated. So much for nothing speaks to man's inability. They just deny what Scripture says.
Neither does that person (unregenerated) have any fear of God which is the beginning of wisdom.
The unregenerated person serves his flesh. Nothing good dwells in the flesh. It serves the law of sin
and brings forth fruit unto death. That unregenerated person is opposed to the spiritual things of God,
is a God hater, and hears the gospel as foolishness. That is the person FWers claim is free to decide to believe.
It is pure vanity on their part, rubbish. They contradict several things Jesus said. They don't care.
Flesh serves the law of sin. For the flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are opposed to each other. Nothing good lives in my flesh. Who can say, “I have kept my heart pure; I am clean and without sin”? Who can bring what is pure from the impure? No one! The flesh brings forth fruit unto death. Romans 7 v 25, Galatians 5 v 17, Romans 7 v 18, Proverbs 20 v 9, Job 14 v 4, Romans 7 v 5 (Romans 8 v 13 and James 1 v 15)
"volitionist" is a much better term than "free will" I suppose.
Yes, evidently this is a real word lol.
Actually, it was a sincere question.
More deflection, confirming you’ve got nothing.
God's primary function in this universe, if we listen to FWers, is to react or respond to the sovereign, "freewill" choices of sinners because God would never, never, never "force" anyone to do His will.