Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
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That's pretty stupid, equivalent to saying unbelievers believe religious/theological premises.
everything.
As has been revealed in pages and pages of this thread ... all are in agreement that it is God Who reaches out to mankind. Mankind does not make the first move ... God does ... get a clue ... there is no dispute over this fact ... why you continue to harp on this fact is not conducive to moving from this first step to the next ... then the next ... then the next ... but because you keep going back to this first step the discussion never progresses further than this first initial action which takes place.
non issue ... all agree that the glory goes to God ...BillyBob said:
exactly ... and Ex 3:4 says when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him ... so it was not until Moses turned to the Lord that God spoke.BillyBob said:
In our day and time, God utilizes the foolishness of preaching to save them who are lost ... when someone "turns aside to see" what this "gospel" is all about, then God works within that person ... and it is God Who is glorified ... not the one believing ... not the one speaking ... God and God alone..
If Moses had seen the bush and said to himself "wow, pretty cool" and gone on about his business tending the flock, God would not have spoken to Moses at that time.
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if the only thing that is taught from the pulpit is "religious/theological premises", that is what is believed in the congregation ...
have you ever considered the woes the Lord Jesus Christ pronounced against the scribes and pharisees ? ... all the times the Lord Jesus Christ pointed out their failure ... the fact that they taught the doctrines of men ?
have you ever considered that the believer is to behave as the Bereans ?
Acts 17:11 KJV - 11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
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It amazes me that the Bible is very specific about Moshe or Moses saying, I WILL TURN AND LOOK and we still have deniers trying to claim this is not a free will act.
In every definition of the terms I WILL has [(always and will never change)] indicate a SELF chosen made ACT that only the person saying I WILL can decide and do.
In every definition of the terms I WILL has [(always and will never change)] indicate a SELF chosen made ACT that only the person saying I WILL can decide and do.
Note.... The words "more noble," is also meaning, more open-minded.
Contrary to the contrarian's take. The Bereans did not search to see if they could disprove what Paul was telling them.
Just the opposite!
They were eager in their search. Because what Paul told them sounded too good to be true!
Their searching of the Scriptures was like double-checking, and triple checking, numbers on their winning lottery ticket!
Attitude is everything.
God knows what He is doing.
Now is the time to determine who will be, and won't be, trustworthy to have the powers we will be granted as our crowns of authority.
It would be dangerous to give such authority to a soul with negatives that could wipe out an entire city with just a desire.
Only a few will reign with Him.
It is for our good that we be tested now by God, so we can agree with Him when some are denied what others will have granted.
Here is a trustworthy saying:
If we died with him,
we will also live with him;
if we endure,
we will also reign with him.
If we disown him,
he will also disown us; (of rewards and crowns)
if we are faithless,
he remains faithful,
for he cannot disown himself. (can not lose salvation)
Keep reminding God’s people of these things.
Warn them before God against quarreling about words;
it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen.
2 Timothy 2:11-14
That is what some here are determined to concentrate on. Quarreling about words!
It keeps people wishing to grow away from the forum. (only ruins those who listen)
If this were a local church they should be removed from the congregation if they persist.
But. Here is a different story. This is an open arena/forum.
grace and peace ..........
No one is saying Moses didn't make a choice. We all make choices. The question is whether the will is free to make choices or is impinged upon by the nature of the individual. In other words, does nature play a role in the choices we make? And if so, is the will actually free?
Who the hell cares?
What are you proving?
Without this pet doctrine of yours, you would have nothing to talk about!
It keeps others locked in the house unable to go out and explore the neighborhood.
Just drop it!
So... You got your perspective.
We think it's idiocy.
And, you think you are too wise for us.
That's been firmly established.
There you have it.
Give me a break! Sure Moses turned to look. Who would not have? But, your thoughts are so shallow concerning the reason for him taking notice.
What was so special about this bush? Oh, my gosh, it was on fire! How did that happen?
So Moses said I WILL, which caused him to make a free-will decision to point his feet in the direction of the bush. He also decided what sandals to wear that day! Again, a free-will choice.
Your theology seems to go nuts every time it is mentioned that God is the reason why men are drawn to Him. I guess that is because it would speak against your free-will belief.
Anytime you place a requirement that man must do anything to become saved – you have just proclaimed that salvation is not by grace, it is not a gift, I earned it!
Predisposition!
Interesting concept and idealism to connect the act of free will to the science of natural instinct.
In other words, Moses chooses to LOOK but many different people would ignore or not understand that the Bush was not really burning.
One could say because of the information we know about Moshe being trained to become a Pharaoh he had the best teachers, best education, best environment to succeed that when it came time for God to use him God used the training of Moshe [a Thinker seeing a bush on fire but not actually burning up] to encapsulate him by capturing Moshe's intellect and adaptive training\instincts.
Of course people in that region have seen bushes dry up and burst into fire on a daily basis. So when a bush appears to be burning but never implodes into a flaming ball of fire could be easily recognized as something unusual and would cause a similar reaction we read like that of Moshe.
Nevertheless, the Bible simply states that Moshe chose to Look and it doesn't go into great detail about it. That leaves a lot of speculation to discuss but all we really know is that Moshe chose to Look because the Bible tells us so.
You clearly have never lived with tumbleweed. It dries up and will burst into fire spontaneously. So seeing a bush on fire without being on fire would be something spectacular. Just knowing that you know so little about such things reveals why you are easily manipulated by your Doctrines.
There you go making assumptions again!
I grew up in Oklahoma near the Arkansas River, and tumbleweed were everywhere. I have never seen one burst into flames. However, I have seen many tumbling along.
But again, it is good to know that you are an expert on such matters!
Looks like someone got up on the wrong side of the bed today. If an individual has no patience, gentleness, or self control, why would anyone think said individual was mature in the faith and value what they say? There are plenty of people who can espouse doctrine. It seems there are few who actually manifest it.
If this were the only passage of scripture on the subject, I would agree with you. However, there is ample scripture that teaches that the will is not free, but impacted in a variety of ways.
But how many times do we have to say it is not free without grace before you hear it?