Israel.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Status
Not open for further replies.
@Gideon300



Its been fulfilled by the 1 st coming of Christ. National Israel's role has been fulfilled, its existence now gentile, like any other nation.
Wrong. God's covenant with Abraham is everlasting. It includes the land and the nation. Israel was God's people in Egypt, in Babylon and whenever they were enslaved by Gentile nations. God scattered them for a time and brought them back. Israel was restored in 1948 exactly as prophesied.
 
Yes, I thought it would be helpful for people to reconsider / investigate the points raised for their own benefit - but sadly I’ve realised it’s a bit of a waste of time with some and you just have to leave them to it.


Yes, people should reconsider, try it. We feel like time has been waited with you too.
 
Here's the kicker: when I started to ask questions I noticed that the emotions of the people defending natural Israel became more apparent, even threatening. That's always a tell for lying spirit at work. They defend their territory with threats. But then the people questioned my salvation. That was the Ace that ultimately gave them away.


Wow, this is very interesting to me.

I have noticed on several of the threads, how unbalanced some can come across, this explains it.

Someone stated on another thread, it is like when you tell a "trans" person they cannot really change their sex, how angry they become because it assaults the delusion they want to protect, it is pretty much the same with this whole version of Israel.

Believing lies is very destabilizing, makes sense really.
 
@Gideon300

Wrong. God's covenant with Abraham is everlasting

Yes through His Seed Christ, not the nation of Israel Gal 3 Christ fulfills all the eternal blessings Gal 3:16-18

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of

18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

Like I said, once the promises seed came, Christ, to perform His covenant work, israel as a nation was no longer needed, and apostatized. Now the Church fulfills the Abrahamic Covenant through Christ Gal 3:29

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HeIsHere
No, I actually cut my Believer's teeth on your version of Israel but then I searched the scriptures to see if what I was taught was true, you know, like the Bereans you claim to exemplify. Turns out I was wrong to believe what I was told.
Here's the kicker: when I started to ask questions I noticed that the emotions of the people defending natural Israel became more apparent, even threatening. That's always a tell for lying spirit at work. They defend their territory with threats. But then the people questioned my salvation. That was the Ace that ultimately gave them away.

Mind you, this was decades ago. I'm sure they're worse now.
Some might even plagiarize entire websites in an attempt to defend their position then, when found out, write a page long excuse without even apologizing.

Several of you have said you believed one thing and then another. Did you not read the Bible for yourselves in the first place?! Why should you be believed now when you believe the total opposite? I have studied the Bible for myself. Read history. Came upon these truths using both the Bible and history.

The fact is that most churches don't know or talk about the subject. I certainly don't know anyone that is hostile about the subject until here lately, after Oct. 7, when things have heated up. But very few churches even preach on it. So other than people here, I don't know what circle of people you associate with but I traveled in more churches than the vast majority of people here and it's not a well known subject to most people. The most hostility I have found on the subject is here. And again, by people who believed one thing, now have completely changed their mind and think the total opposite and expect people to follow them. smh
 
Wow, this is very interesting to me.

I have noticed on several of the threads, how unbalanced some can come across, this explains it.

Someone stated on another thread, it is like when you tell a "trans" person they cannot really change their sex, how angry they become because it assaults the delusion they want to protect, it is pretty much the same with this whole version of Israel.

Believing lies is very destabilizing, makes sense really.

Yeah, I've dealt with evil spirits in people for over two decades now.

One glaring tell of a spirit's influence over someone's mind (I don't mean possession, simply a mindset) is when their emotions don't match the situation. Then, it is likely one of two things: an unspoken agenda or a mindset or both.

As a young man (in my 20's) I asked a room full of professional peers, who were Roman Catholic, "Why don't you eat meat on Fridays?" As they began hashing it out amongst themselves, no one knew the answer, I noticed them getting louder and more argumentative. I just observed the show, gave a "Hmm" and went back to my work. There is a difference between giving a defense of the truth, like a legal defense that is well thought out and concise, and being defensive.

To be clear: I'm not saying member here has an evil spirit.
 
They probably belong to some sleeper cell and "Order 66" was issued.... :)


🚞


Wow, I sure am starting to wonder! I've never seen such a antisemitic attitude as I have seen here. And they all say they believed the correct Biblical way then read something and changed their mind to the total opposite. What I want to know is what indoctrinated them away from the truth. And why the outrage? Children are in the cross hairs of wars all over the world and there is not one thread by these people screaming about it. But the Palestinians, off the chart sympathy to blame the Jews for the worlds woes. The crimes committed by Hamas on Oct 7, don't matter. The Jews asked to be raped, kidnapped, murdered, burned alive and worse that I cannot mention here. But as I said, none of them will believe it because it's the testimony of a Jew. I swear you could stand them in the middle of dead bodies and the blood in childrens rooms that were slaughtered and they would deny it happened or say the Jews asked for it. Just totally brain washed by whatever the terrorists say. Back in the day I watch Schindler's List and wondered how could people be so racist, and cruel, people who claimed to be Christians.

I don't have children, but I have three nephews, one a great nephew. If any of them had been taken hostage, I would not eat or sleep until they were safely home. My little two year old nephew has bright red hair like the Bibas boys. To think that he could be taken from his mothers arms and strangled by a terrorist. I cannot tolerate the thought. And I would want justice, and I would get it come hell or high water. Every drop of blood, every hostage, every abuse is at the hands of Hamas and their supporters. I believe in an eye for an eye and I truly hope they will get the same treatment they gave to others.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2ndTimeIsTheCharm
Yeah, I've dealt with evil spirits in people for over two decades now.

One glaring tell of a spirit's influence over someone's mind (I don't mean possession, simply a mindset) is when their emotions don't match the situation. Then, it is likely one of two things: an unspoken agenda or a mindset or both.

As a young man (in my 20's) I asked a room full of professional peers, who were Roman Catholic, "Why don't you eat meat on Fridays?" As they began hashing it out amongst themselves, no one knew the answer, I noticed them getting louder and more argumentative. I just observed the show, gave a "Hmm" and went back to my work. There is a difference between giving a defense of the truth, like a legal defense that is well thought out and concise, and being defensive.

To be clear: I'm not saying member here has an evil spirit.

Yes I understand, I did not take it that way.
Seems mostly all defensive to me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pilgrimshope
Yeah, I've dealt with evil spirits in people for over two decades now.

One glaring tell of a spirit's influence over someone's mind (I don't mean possession, simply a mindset) is when their emotions don't match the situation. Then, it is likely one of two things: an unspoken agenda or a mindset or both.

As a young man (in my 20's) I asked a room full of professional peers, who were Roman Catholic, "Why don't you eat meat on Fridays?" As they began hashing it out amongst themselves, no one knew the answer, I noticed them getting louder and more argumentative. I just observed the show, gave a "Hmm" and went back to my work. There is a difference between giving a defense of the truth, like a legal defense that is well thought out and concise, and being defensive.

To be clear: I'm not saying member here has an evil spirit.


Well when I first started this conversation, under my other name, here years ago, I was pretty calm about it toI o. Back then a Holocaust denier hopped on and lit a match. I don't know if they are still here. I haven't settled whether there are deniers in this thread or not. I don't think this subject would be so heated except for Oct 7.
 
Several of you have said you believed one thing and then another. Did you not read the Bible for yourselves in the first place?! Why should you be believed now when you believe the total opposite? I have studied the Bible for myself. Read history. Came upon these truths using both the Bible and history.

The fact is that most churches don't know or talk about the subject. I certainly don't know anyone that is hostile about the subject until here lately, after Oct. 7, when things have heated up. But very few churches even preach on it. So other than people here, I don't know what circle of people you associate with but I traveled in more churches than the vast majority of people here and it's not a well known subject to most people. The most hostility I have found on the subject is here. And again, by people who believed one thing, now have completely changed their mind and think the total opposite and expect people to follow them. smh

Of course I did. I read the parts that I thought were relevant. In my limited scope physical Israel = Spiritual Israel made sense.
But then my walk with God matured. Once I understood His nature, I went back to the beliefs I had as a young man and examined them in light of a mature view. I realized much of what I was taught was lacking. Incidentally, this began my exodus from the institutional church, the Sunday Boxes, and from national and state politics.

My position is this: the believer in Christ has no "side" in the conflict. The validity of true Israel is not at stake. We have come to a heavenly Jerusalem, the mother of us all. Christ, the Redeemer, ultimately came from heavenly Zion. That is the mountain that was brought to us in Him.

This means I can identify atrocities on either side: from Israelis or Arabs. Both need Christ. But, today is the time of the Gentiles and therefor, the time of the Arabs. Sure, pray for the Jews but pray for the Arabs more because it's their time.
 
the believer in Christ has no "side" in the conflict.

I think the believer in Christ by necessity of who he/she is in Christ must work to reveal the truth that innocent children/babies are being slaughtered daily and also reveal what are lies and is plainly evil.

Surely, the world is such a mess because Christians have abdicated their duty in this world to be salt and light.
 
I have been thinking on this post a lot and the stoning of Stephen, how threatened those people were by the truth.

The official death toll on Oct 7 was 277 civilians.
And with the Hannibal Directive I wonder how many of those were killed by the IDF?
Hamas did not break the ceasefire.
How many Palestinians have been killed or displaced since 1948.

And when they go on about Islam, I see an absolutely ridiculous deflection, I thought the modern day Jews are the chosen people, you know the ones with the scripture, one would think they would have higher morality and ethics?
To say "this is war" as though that justifies killing babies in incubators and putting bullets in children's heads?

You ask very good questions. I think we both know, it is just we expect different as so we are taken aback maybe.

It is part a spiritual problem but also a mental health problem because certain people are drawn to cults. I also think they need the tangible evidence, the myth of 1948 provides that.
But what does scripture state about "faith?"

"Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen."

They could be shills too, there is a lot of that now everywhere.

Those I have met in person for certain there is something very wrong with their heart. Period.

On here, I cannot even read their posts, it brings total shame to Christ Jesus and Christianity.


I’m not involved very much with the political conflict in Israel, so I can’t speak on that subject. But I would like to comment on your statement about them being “God’s chosen people. From what I read, I think most Americans believe we should help them and support them because they are God’s chosen people. At one time, that was true; and all of the scriptures you see quoted will only come from the Old Testament because that was the only time when they were God’s “chosen.”

They are NOT God’s chosen people today; and I can prove it from the scriptures, if you are willing to believe what God says.
First of all, we must understand that God’s covenant with His people has been changed. It was prophesied in Jeremiah 31:31. “…the days are coming says the Lord, when I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL…not like the one I made with their fathers…”. This prophecy is fulfilled in the New TESTAMENT (covenant). Hebrews 8 teaches this and even quotes Jeremiah’s prophecy. This NEW covenant is the “will” of Jesus Christ. Whereas the Old Testament is “exclusive” Jews only, the NEW COVENANT is “inclusive”—all men, Jew and Gentiles alike.
Hebrews 8:13 even says the Old Testament is OBSOLETE and is vanishing away. All of those Old Testament scriptures that say “bless Israel” and they are “chosen” and “Israel is the apple of God’s eye—are just that—OLD TESTAMENT. They are OBSOLETE. God has a NEW covenant and we are not under that Old covenant that is obsolete, outdated, no longer in force; we are under the NEW Covenant that was prophesied by Jeremiah and confirmed by the Holy Spirit in Hebrews 8. If you are a Christian, you are abiding by the law of Christ, following Him and His law is only found in the New Covenant; in the Old Testament, the Jews followed the law given by Moses. That law was never for Christian’s.

God has told us who are His “chosen” people today, in 1 Peter 2:7-9. Notice verse 7– “To you who BELIEVE…”. That’s us, if you believe Jesus is the Son of God. That’s Christian’s. Now listen to what the Holy Spirit says to YOU: “ But YOU ( those who Believe) are a CHOSEN generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, HIS OWN SPECIAL PEOPLE…”. Verse 10 says at one time we were NOT His people but NOW, NOW WE ARE THE PEOPLE OF GOD! This is wonderful!! I hope you believe what God has done for us and what He is telling you here. It’s a great, great Blessing God has bestowed on us.

You will not find one scripture in all of the New Testament that tells you to “bless” Israel or that they are God’s “chosen” people. That’s in the past. At one time, yes. But now? No. Those Old Testament scriptures are no longer in force. They have been replaced by The New Testament of Jesus Christ. Hear Him. Obey Him.
 
Of course I did. I read the parts that I thought were relevant. In my limited scope physical Israel = Spiritual Israel made sense.
But then my walk with God matured. Once I understood His nature, I went back to the beliefs I had as a young man and examined them in light of a mature view. I realized much of what I was taught was lacking. Incidentally, this began my exodus from the institutional church, the Sunday Boxes, and from national and state politics.

My position is this: the believer in Christ has no "side" in the conflict. The validity of true Israel is not at stake. We have come to a heavenly Jerusalem, the mother of us all. Christ, the Redeemer, ultimately came from heavenly Zion. That is the mountain that was brought to us in Him.

This means I can identify atrocities on either side: from Israelis or Arabs. Both need Christ. But, today is the time of the Gentiles and therefor, the time of the Arabs. Sure, pray for the Jews but pray for the Arabs more because it's their time.


Arabs= Gentiles?? I'm assuming that's what you mean? Well, I see it from another side. I don't believe in OSAS. But I do believe that God is faithful when we aren't. I believe God is still calling us and the Jews to repent, giving us one last time to come to Him. I believe that God made a land promise to Abraham, where He swore an oath against himself saying "I Will". And I believe, according to Rom. 11, among other Scriptures, that God will restore Jews to their land and to Himself.

As far as Arabs my sister was blessed to be able to go on a mission trip to Africa. She said the missionaries there told her that many Muslims were having visions of Jesus and were getting saved and baptized. The Muslim religion is cruel, demonic and very hard to break free of because they are risking their lives. The fields are ripe. Many churches have a hard time finding missionaries willing to go. At this point in life I am unable to go unless the Lord makes a way. All I can do is pray.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2ndTimeIsTheCharm
@Gideon300



Yes through His Seed Christ, not the nation of Israel Gal 3 Christ fulfills all the eternal blessings Gal 3:16-18

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of

18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

Like I said, once the promises seed came, Christ, to perform His covenant work, israel as a nation was no longer needed, and apostatized. Now the Church fulfills the Abrahamic Covenant through Christ Gal 3:29

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
This is how you end up in error, quote part of the scripture that fits your own interpretation and ignore the rest.

Then the LORD said to Abram, “Leave your country, your kindred, and your father’s household, and go to the land I will show you. I will make you into a great nation, and I will bless you; I will make your name great, so that you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you; and all the families of the earth will be blessed through you.”

'And to you and your descendants I will give the land where you are residing—all the land of Canaan—as an eternal possession; and I will be their God.”

“Now lift up your eyes from the place where you are, and look to the north and south and east and west, for all the land that you see, I will give to you and your offspring forever

He remembers His covenant forever, the word He ordained for a thousand generations—the covenant He made with Abraham,
and the oath He swore to Isaac. He confirmed it to Jacob as a decree, to Israel as an everlasting covenant: “I will give you the land of Canaan as the portion of your inheritance.”

“But you, O Israel, My servant, Jacob, whom I have chosen, descendant of Abraham My friend— / I brought you from the ends of the earth and called you from its farthest corners. I said, ‘You are My servant.’ I have chosen and not rejected you."

It does not mean that Jews are automatically saved. That is as false as saying that Israel is no longer God's nation or that they were not brought back to the land according to God's will.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2ndTimeIsTheCharm
I’m not involved very much with the political conflict in Israel, so I can’t speak on that subject. But I would like to comment on your statement about them being “God’s chosen people. From what I read, I think most Americans believe we should help them and support them because they are God’s chosen people. At one time, that was true; and all of the scriptures you see quoted will only come from the Old Testament because that was the only time when they were God’s “chosen.”

They are NOT God’s chosen people today; and I can prove it from the scriptures, if you are willing to believe what God says.
First of all, we must understand that God’s covenant with His people has been changed. It was prophesied in Jeremiah 31:31. “…the days are coming says the Lord, when I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL…not like the one I made with their fathers…”. This prophecy is fulfilled in the New TESTAMENT (covenant). Hebrews 8 teaches this and even quotes Jeremiah’s prophecy. This NEW covenant is the “will” of Jesus Christ. Whereas the Old Testament is “exclusive” Jews only, the NEW COVENANT is “inclusive”—all men, Jew and Gentiles alike.

Let's start at the beginning. When in history has Israel possessed all the land within the Palestinian Covenant borders that God promised Abraham?
 
I think the believer in Christ by necessity of who he/she is in Christ must work to reveal the truth that innocent children/babies are being slaughtered daily and also reveal what are lies and is plainly evil.

Surely, the world is such a mess because Christians have abdicated their duty in this world to be salt and light.
Well, you sure have swallowed Satan's lies, along with the world that is under the control of Satan. Why single out Israel? Atrocities are being committed in Sudan, the Sahel, Myanmar, Mexico, on the border with Mexico. Do you not know that children are forced to swallow drugs and then killed in order to remove the drugs? Who is railing against that at the UN?

There is no genocide and no starvation in Gaza. It's a lie that the world eagerly swallows because it hates God and therefore hates Israel. Some children are killed. That's because Hamas uses them as shields. Hamas lies continually about casualties. The lies started the moment Israel was attacked. The starvation photos? Hamas is using pictures of children with genetic disorders as propaganda. The media latches onto the lie and does not bother fact checking. It makes good copy and gets people watching the news.

You are siding with God's enemies. They started this war in 1948. Israel is about to end it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2ndTimeIsTheCharm
Status
Not open for further replies.