Israel.

[Pilgrimshope]

Now my question to you is were the promises of God law or grace?

“He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:11-12, 16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Melach]

God didn't kick the palestinians out because until 1948 to move the Jews in as He promised in the book of Ezekiel.

You might not be able to distinguish between Jews and palestinians, but God can. If you don't agree with Him, go ahead and tell Him He's wrong.

The Bible does say that God will bring the Jews back into their own land and never uproot them again, and He did, but I know you don't want believe that.

And that's fine, you don't have to believe it. Most people in the world either don't believe it or are oblivious to what God says He will or has already done in the Bible.

Disbelief doesn't stop Him.

i hope you're right. but what happens when the state of israel is no more? a lot of people's faiths will crumble because they believed this to be the fulfillment of bible prophecy. but whenever i read of God gathering the jews, its always a spiritual redemption not just an earthly regathering.

ezekiel 36 which your camp uses a lot to prove that jews are gathered in unbelief says God will also give them a new heart and will cause them to obey His laws. whats up with that?

 

[Melach]

Futurism makes Christ Jesus a liar.

“When they persecute YOU in one town, flee to the next, for truly, I say to YOU, YOU will not have gone through all the towns of Israel BEFORE the Son of Man comes.”
—Mt 10:23 (Mt 23:34).

“For the Son of Man is going to come with His angels in the glory of His Father, and then He will repay each person according to what he has done (Rev 22:12). Truly, I say to YOU, there are some standing here who will not taste death UNTIL they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
—Mt 16:27-28

“so that on YOU may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah, whom YOU murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. Truly, I say to YOU, all these things will come upon THIS GENERATION.” —Mt 23:35-36

“Truly, I say to YOU, this generation will not pass away until ALL these things take place.”
—Mt 24:34

YOU at least 24 times in the Oliver Discourse!

thats why you should join us in historicism. the traditional protestant view.

i will accept your application right now

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

i hope you're right. but what happens when the state of israel is no more? a lot of people's faiths will crumble because they believed this to be the fulfillment of bible prophecy. but whenever i read of God gathering the jews, its always a spiritual redemption not just an earthly regathering.

ezekiel 36 which your camp uses a lot to prove that jews are gathered in unbelief says God will also give them a new heart and will cause them to obey His laws. whats up with that?

It looks dire for Israel right now, doesn't it?

It will get worse for Israel as satan amasses more enemies against her in this war. This will make Israel vulnerable, looking for someone to give them peace.... Things always get worse before they get better!

In regard to Ezekiel 36, you should do a Bible study with the Lord. He can explain it better than anyone else about what it means to Him.

 

[God-fearing]

“He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:11-12, 16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So by grace we are saved, through faith. Gods promise is grace.... not by law ....how much more or less of grace is his promise to the regathering? As God said its not by their merit but for his name sake he will do it. Now this is a regathering in the land of promise but its not the end game. Its the start of a count down that leads to the end game.
Jesus cursed the fig tree but then he said watch and gave us a illustration of it coming back to life.
Israel is Gods first son. God destroys the wicked but chastens sons. This war now is only a prelude of wars to come.
I believe that the Ezekiel 38 war is the next big event and its effects will be world wide. It may be what triggers the tribulation or second coming. Or both.
The 2 wars that are mentioned are different in there objective. One for land one for booty (riches). Is this war now the one about land no but many protest that point.

 

[God-fearing]

Please take the time to listen, this is what is happening in the middle east right now. Not just in Israel. Take note what is not on the news. What Israel is doing. Outside of its boarders.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

So by grace we are saved, through faith. Gods promise is grace.... not by law ....how much more or less of grace is his promise to the regathering? As God said its not by their merit but for his name sake he will do it. Now this is a regathering in the land of promise but its not the end game. Its the start of a count down that leads to the end game.
Jesus cursed the fig tree but then he said watch and gave us a illustration of it coming back to life.
Israel is Gods first son. God destroys the wicked but chastens sons. This war now is only a prelude of wars to come.
I believe that the Ezekiel 38 war is the next big event and its effects will be world wide. It may be what triggers the tribulation or second coming. Or both.
The 2 wars that are mentioned are different in there objective. One for land one for booty (riches). Is this war now the one about land no but many protest that point.

His covenant with Isreal regarding the land he gave them was governed by the law he gave them . If they kept it it would have been the blessing but they broke it and it became the curse .

The promises of the New Testament are Abraham’s inheritance and promises

 

[TMS]

Great scriptures you posted here and yes old testament to the new.
But let's also agree that the old has to be fulfilled entirely before the new can come in.

It seems that you and others jump over into the new before the old is finished. What happens when Satan is loosed? Is there another war? Where does that battle take place. Let's take these into account also.

It all makes sense when you apply a few principles

Old and new..... the coming of Christ fulfilled many of the prophesies but many were conditional.

The 70 week prophecy in Daniel 9:24
"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy."

Made it clear how long Israel had to get things right... they failed. They were left desolate
Mat 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

The Israel nation has not changed... Paul said
Rom 11:21For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. .... 24 KJV For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature (gentiles), and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches (Jews), be graffed into their own olive tree?

The Jews can still be saved as individuals but as a nation they are nothing because they rejected Jesus.

Jesus talked to the Israel leaders ....
Joh 8:42-44
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. 43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

As a nation, Have they changed?

There probation as a nation finished at the end of the 70 weeks.

The more you study the things in the Old T. The more you see them fulfilled in Chist.
It was to guild them to Christ. But they missed the prize.

Satan is loosed.... if all the lost are destroyed at the coming of Christ, then the devil has no one to tempt. He is bound to a world full of dead bones and nothing to do. 1000 year jail sentence.
But at the end of the 1000 years the second resurrection happens and all the unsaved are raised. Satan has people to tempt and lie to again.. he is loosed.

The new Jerusalem comes down to the Earth from heaven and the evil think to capture it. But God destroys them all with the second death. Sin and death are destroyed and judgment is served.

Now I'll get the verses....

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Revelation is not written in consecutive order. But repeat and enlarge is used...The Jewish method also known as parallelism or anaphora, uses repetition to convey meaning, and build emphasis.

If you read Rev 19-21..With the understanding that the writer is repeating parts it makes sense.

A spiritual being can not be physically chained. But if he is bound by circumstances it makes sense..

 

[Pilgrimshope]

So by grace we are saved, through faith. Gods promise is grace.... not by law ....how much more or less of grace is his promise to the regathering? As God said its not by their merit but for his name sake he will do it. Now this is a regathering in the land of promise but its not the end game. Its the start of a count down that leads to the end game.
Jesus cursed the fig tree but then he said watch and gave us a illustration of it coming back to life.
Israel is Gods first son. God destroys the wicked but chastens sons. This war now is only a prelude of wars to come.
I believe that the Ezekiel 38 war is the next big event and its effects will be world wide. It may be what triggers the tribulation or second coming. Or both.
The 2 wars that are mentioned are different in there objective. One for land one for booty (riches). Is this war now the one about land no but many protest that point.

“Israel is Gods first son. “

not at all.

“which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭3:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

But look see this ?

“When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.”
‭‭Hosea‬ ‭11:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s a prophecy about Jesus

“And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him. When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt: and was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭2:13-15‬ ‭

the fulfillments of Israel’s promises are all in the gospel all in thier messiah and accepting him

 

[God-fearing]

“Israel is Gods first son. “

not at all.

“which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭3:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

But look see this ?

“When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.”
‭‭Hosea‬ ‭11:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s a prophecy about Jesus

“And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him. When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt: and was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭2:13-15‬ ‭

the fulfillments of Israel’s promises are all in the gospel all in thier messiah and accepting him

Exo 4:22 And you are to say to Pharaoh, The Lord says, Israel is the first of my sons:
(KJV) And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

 

[God-fearing]

“Israel is Gods first son. “

not at all.

“which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭3:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

But look see this ?

“When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.”
‭‭Hosea‬ ‭11:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s a prophecy about Jesus

“And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him. When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt: and was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭2:13-15‬ ‭

the fulfillments of Israel’s promises are all in the gospel all in thier messiah and accepting him

To much to post but read Isaiah 43 the chapter. I think you will be surprised.

 

[God-fearing]

His covenant with Isreal regarding the land he gave them was governed by the law he gave them . If they kept it it would have been the blessing but they broke it and it became the curse .

The promises of the New Testament are Abraham’s inheritance and promises

There is no grace found in the law brother that was the issue. Apply this to your walk with Christ right now are you the perfect one.
By grace we are saved...not by the law ....through faith which God gave a measure to each of us not any doing of our own.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Exo 4:22 And you are to say to Pharaoh, The Lord says, Israel is the first of my sons:
(KJV) And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

“but their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3:14-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth. For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:11-14, 17-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

i think you are looking at the wrong covenant Jesus and the gospel is what isreal was promised nothing less than that …. Without him there’s no such thing as a son of God remembering he was before the beginning

 

[Gideon300]

Yeah, covenants require a priesthood. There are no Levitical priests today and, therefore, there is no covenant that is exclusive to the Hebrews.

11Therefore, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need was there that another priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be called according to the order of Aaron? 12For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law. 13For He of whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no man has officiated at the altar.

14For it is evident that our Lord arose from Judah, of which tribe Moses spoke nothing concerning priesthood. 15And it is yet far more evident if, in the likeness of Melchizedek, there arises another priest 16who has come, not according to the law of a fleshly commandment, but according to the power of an endless life.

Paul wrote this in Galatians:

Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ. 17And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. 18For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

Let's actually go look at the Old Testament where these promises are given to Abraham. Here is one section:

17 When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to Abram and said to him, “I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless. 2 And I will make My covenant between Me and you, and will multiply you exceedingly.” 3 Then Abram fell on his face, and God talked with him, saying: 4 “As for Me, behold, My covenant is with you, and you shall be a father of many nations. 5 No longer shall your name be called Abram, but your name shall be Abraham; for I have made you a father of many nations. 6 I will make you exceedingly fruitful; and I will make nations of you, and kings shall come from you. 7 And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you. 8 Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.”

Let's take out these verses:

"And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you. 8 Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.”

The underlined "your descendants" is actually "seed" in the King James Version. The Hebrew word is zera' which is literally "seed".

No mental gymnastics are needed to understand that "your descendants" actually means the singular "seed" because Paul told us as much (see above". And that singular Seed is Christ.

Here are some other verses where the singular "seed" is used:

"And I will put enmity, Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her Seed; He shall bruise your head, And you shall bruise His heel.”

“And as for Me, behold, I establish My covenant with you and with your descendants after you..."

"Then the LORD appeared to Abram and said, “To your descendants I will give this land.” And there he built an altar to the LORD, who had appeared to him."

“for all the land which you see I give to you and your descendants forever."

“And I will make your descendants as the dust of the earth; so that if a man could number the dust of the earth, then your descendants also could be numbered."

“...blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply your descendants as the stars of the heaven and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your descendants shall possess the gate of their enemies."

And many many more.

Here's one last one to tie it into Revelation 7:

Jacob was restating the covenant God gave to him:
“For You said, ‘I will surely treat you well, and make your descendants as the sand of the sea, which cannot be numbered for multitude.’ ”

And so we see in Revelation 7 this same multitude after the angel pronounces "144,000 from all the tribes of Israel" (which we know is symbolic):
"After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands..."

This is the many-membered Christ, God's temple, of which the multitude are its living stones.

The Living God has One Seed, Christ, to Whom all His blessing flow. Man may receive the promises of God only by being in Christ. There is no other way.

Where was the priesthood when God gave the covenant to Abraham? There are a number of covenants, beginning with Noah. Some are conditional, such as the covenant with Moses and Israel, some are unconditional, such as God's covenant with Abraham. You don't get to pick and choose which covenant to apply in any given situation. God's promise to Abraham was everlasting. There was no priesthood, no temple, no law and no Levites.

Read Romans chapter 11; first take your blinkers off. You might learn something.

 

[Needevidence]

Comprehension skills my good lady!

You didn't "grab" my post correctly, so your response was not at the bottom. I loathe that.

not sure what point you trying to make, clarify. Reply to my post so context is maintained - you seem to go off on tangents without proper response - maybe you have some agenda in your mind but I’m not a mind reader so need clarity.

 

[Needevidence]

Alright explain what nation was born in a day. Who was God going to re-gather and to where? For what reason?

You haven’t replied to my post – happy to discuss other points but lets deal with one point at a time which seems to be taking forever

 

[God-fearing]

“but their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3:14-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth. For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:11-14, 17-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

i think you are looking at the wrong covenant Jesus and the gospel is what isreal was promised nothing less than that …. Without him there’s no such thing as a son of God remembering he was before the beginning

Was Adam before the beginning? God created israel not man, it isn't as if Jacob said ok Lord let me create a belief system with laws and temples and priest ect no God gave them the law the dimensions the statues and such..
Now you are saying to me to disregard what scripture says to fit your narrative? Sorry no can do. Work around it like some folks here.
Im really surprised at you, God created Israel. God formed Israel. Not man. Yes Israel's been corrupted so are we but Gad said hey I'll fix it.
I truly am dumb founded that the church who preaches a forgiving God. A loving God, A gracious God for everyone except Israel.
Is the church becoming like the pharisees look they broke the covenant, they sit with sinners, counterfeit Israel, they dont believe,
They kill and destroy, they robbed the land. There is no hope for them ,God curse them. They killed Christ.They starve people.

Jesus said ...my house is a house of prayer.....scripture says judgment begins in the house of the Lord....how are our prayers directed?

 

[HeIsHere]

Im really surprised at you, God created Israel. God formed Israel.

There is only one TREE (in Christ), not two.

 

[God-fearing]

There is only one TREE (in Christ), not two.

Absolutely no doubt and that is what God will do unite....can you honestly say this has already happened with what's posted and what's happening in the world today.
Jesus death brings peace with God for us and all that believe. In God's time this will be fulfilled. A brand new Kingdom united in Christ Jesus where there is no jew no gentile all are the same in Christ Jesus.
Jesus wept over Jerusalem. Jerusalem is the place where all nations are welcomed. In the garden Jesus asked if there be another way but nevertheless God's will be done. Was Jesus making this about him or about what must come to pass. I would say both.
There's a bumpy ride ahead of all of us that leads to the kingdom and who are we to say who is and who's not for we ourselves are only grafted in.
The atonement of Christ will be fulfilled to its entirety but first the old must be fulfilled in order to usher in the new.
For the Lord had spoken it he will do it. The God of the old is the God of the new.

 

[HeIsHere]

Absolutely no doubt and that is what God will do unite....can you honestly say this has already happened with what's posted and what's happening in the world today.
Jesus death brings peace with God for us and all that believe. In God's time this will be fulfilled. A brand new Kingdom united in Christ Jesus where there is no jew no gentile all are the same in Christ Jesus.
Jesus wept over Jerusalem. Jerusalem is the place where all nations are welcomed. In the garden Jesus asked if there be another way but nevertheless God's will be done. Was Jesus making this about him or about what must come to pass. I would say both.
There's a bumpy ride ahead of all of us that leads to the kingdom and who are we to say who is and who's not for we ourselves are only grafted in.
The atonement of Christ will be fulfilled to its entirety but first the old must be fulfilled in order to usher in the new.
For the Lord had spoken it he will do it. The God of the old is the God of the new.

It has been fulfilled in Christ Jesus. God has moved on and you should too!