You mean, He has no stake in land that will be replaced with an eternal earth?!
Makes sense for someone Who is wise.
Replaced with an eternal earth .. where do you draw that from in scripture, just curious?
Israel.
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Replaced with an eternal earth .. where do you draw that from in scripture, just curious?
Does it have to say 1948?
I guess the Bible has to spell things out for you. No wonder you don't understand most of it, lol!
Says the person who thinks this verse is about spiritual salvation (elementally wrong) and people are going to run to the hills to be safe.
Matthew 24:13
13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved.
By their fruits, you will know them!Talk about judging! You're the one declaring that the US is the worst sinner among that nations and will be judged.
You don't even know how bad the rest of the nations are, but the US will be singled out for special destruction? The Bible doesn't say or even imply that anywhere in the Bible.
Oh, and I play violin. Should I play "Sad Romance" while you have your pity party to try to shame me?
Sad Romance
May God forgive you for picking on soneone deep in grief and loss. Do you have a heart or more concerned about "winning" a debate.
Stop using your grievous situation to shame other people. You won't get any sympathy from me for doing that!
I do not think the USA is Babylon since I am not a futurist, but no doubt it stopped being a force for good a long time ago and it is right up there since it holds a lot of power and wealth.
I would say more about protecting the "delusion" but I guess that does go hand in hand with winning the debate.
I doubt anyone would get any sympathy from you about anything. Probably would have been the Pharisee who passed the injured man by while the Good Samaritan stopped. I can see why people look at Christians, not Jesus, and say I dont want what they have.Stop using your grievous situation to shame other people. You won't get any sympathy from me for doing that!
You should know about delusion. You're swimming in it!
Futurism makes Christ Jesus a liar.
“When they persecute YOU in one town, flee to the next, for truly, I say to YOU, YOU will not have gone through all the towns of Israel BEFORE the Son of Man comes.”
—Mt 10:23 (Mt 23:34).
“For the Son of Man is going to come with His angels in the glory of His Father, and then He will repay each person according to what he has done (Rev 22:12). Truly, I say to YOU, there are some standing here who will not taste death UNTIL they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
—Mt 16:27-28
“so that on YOU may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah, whom YOU murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. Truly, I say to YOU, all these things will come upon THIS GENERATION.” —Mt 23:35-36
“Truly, I say to YOU, this generation will not pass away until ALL these things take place.”
—Mt 24:34
YOU at least 24 times in the Oliver Discourse!
Revelation 21:1
"Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more."
Thank you, I do not interpret this the same way as you, but that is okay.
I've rejected that because Jesus said Behold Your house is left desolate replying to the pharisees. Not Jerusalem nor Israel their house.
as ive pointed out many times a pharisees is a type of person. This is the destruction in 70ad.
there are many things in the gospel we take for granted and just go along with it and hang a israel or jewish tag on it....not so.
What is the biblical meaning of Pharisee?
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Who were the Pharisees in the Bible? | Christianity.com
In the Bible, the Pharisees were a prominent Jewish sect who believed in the resurrection of the dead, angels, spirits, and the authority of the Oral Law (traditions of the elders) alongside the Written Law (the Torah). While some Pharisees were genuine in their faith, the New Testament often portrays them as hypocritical, self-righteous, and ultimately hostile to Jesus, who criticized their focus on outward observance over inner piety. The name "Pharisee" likely comes from the Hebrew word for "separated ones," reflecting their strict, self-imposed adherence to religious customs.
Jesus used harsh language to describe the scribes and Pharisees, calling them hypocrites, blind guides, fools, serpents, and a brood of vipers in Matthew 23. He also described them as whitewashed tombs, beautiful on the outside but full of death and uncleanness within, and criticized their emphasis on outward appearances and burdens placed on others.
“Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. ….And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things. And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high. And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.”
Luke 24:25-27, 44-49, 51 KJV
“But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled. Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; and he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.”
Acts 3:18-21 KJV
when Paul says seed as of one and not many he’s referring to this when Isaac the promised son was offered
“And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me. … And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, and said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
that in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore;
and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.”
Genesis 22:12, 15-18 KJV
The significance is that this promise about Abrahams seed and all nations is given 430 years before the law was given or before israel or his children even existed yet .
“And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.”
Galatians 3:17-18 KJV
the gospel was promised to Abraham for all nations four generations before the law was given to the children of Israel and he led then into thier land as promised with the blessing and cursing in tboer law which ne er disanulled the promise made to him about all nations thoer covenant was only ever meant tomlewd the world to Christ and the gospel Abraham children are the believers
Seven Woes to the Scribes and Pharisees
Mat 23:1 Then Jesus said to the people and to his disciples:
Mat 23:2 The scribes and the Pharisees have the authority of Moses;
Mat 23:3 All things, then, which they give you orders to do, these do and keep: but do not take their works as your example, for they say and do not.
Mat 23:4 They make hard laws and put great weights on men's backs; but they themselves will not put a finger to them.
Mat 23:5 But all their works they do so as to be seen by men: for they make wide their phylacteries, and the edges of their robes,
Mat 23:6 And the things desired by them are the first places at feasts, and the chief seats in the Synagogues,
Mat 23:7 And words of respect in the market-places, and to be named by men, Teacher.
Mat 23:8 But you may not be named Teacher: for one is your teacher, and you are all brothers.
Mat 23:9 And give no man the name of father on earth: because one is your Father, who is in heaven.
Mat 23:10 And you may not be named guides: because one is your Guide, even Christ.
Mat 23:11 But let the greatest among you be your servant.
Mat 23:12 And whoever makes himself high will be made low, and whoever makes himself low will be made high.
Mat 23:13 But a curse is on you, scribes and Pharisees, false ones! because you are shutting the kingdom of heaven against men: for you do not go in yourselves, and those who are going in, you keep back.
Mat 23:15 A curse is on you, scribes and Pharisees, false ones! for you go about land and sea to get one disciple and, having him, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.
Mat 23:16 A curse is on you, blind guides, who say, Whoever takes an oath by the Temple, it is nothing; but whoever takes an oath by the gold of the Temple, he is responsible.
Mat 23:17 You foolish ones and blind: which is greater, the gold, or the Temple which makes the gold holy?
Mat 23:18 And, Whoever takes an oath by the altar, it is nothing; but whoever takes an oath by the offering which is on it, he is responsible.
Mat 23:19 You blind ones: which is greater, the offering, or the altar which makes the offering holy?
Mat 23:20 He, then, who takes an oath by the altar, takes it by the altar and by all things on it.
Mat 23:21 And he who takes an oath by the Temple, takes it by the Temple and by him whose house it is.
Mat 23:22 And he who takes an oath by heaven, takes it by the seat of God, and by him who is seated on it.
Mat 23:23 A curse is on you, scribes and Pharisees, false ones! for you make men give a tenth of all sorts of sweet-smelling plants, but you give no thought to the more important things of the law, righteousness, and mercy, and faith; but it is right for you to do these, and not to let the others be undone.
Mat 23:24 You blind guides, who take out a fly from your drink, but make no trouble over a camel.
Mat 23:25 A curse is on you, scribes and Pharisees, false ones! for you make clean the outside of the cup and of the plate, but inside they are full of violent behaviour and uncontrolled desire.
Mat 23:1 Then Jesus said to the people and to his disciples:
Mat 23:2 The scribes and the Pharisees have the authority of Moses;
Mat 23:3 All things, then, which they give you orders to do, these do and keep: but do not take their works as your example, for they say and do not.
Mat 23:4 They make hard laws and put great weights on men's backs; but they themselves will not put a finger to them.
Mat 23:5 But all their works they do so as to be seen by men: for they make wide their phylacteries, and the edges of their robes,
Mat 23:6 And the things desired by them are the first places at feasts, and the chief seats in the Synagogues,
Mat 23:7 And words of respect in the market-places, and to be named by men, Teacher.
Mat 23:8 But you may not be named Teacher: for one is your teacher, and you are all brothers.
Mat 23:9 And give no man the name of father on earth: because one is your Father, who is in heaven.
Mat 23:10 And you may not be named guides: because one is your Guide, even Christ.
Mat 23:11 But let the greatest among you be your servant.
Mat 23:12 And whoever makes himself high will be made low, and whoever makes himself low will be made high.
Mat 23:13 But a curse is on you, scribes and Pharisees, false ones! because you are shutting the kingdom of heaven against men: for you do not go in yourselves, and those who are going in, you keep back.
Mat 23:15 A curse is on you, scribes and Pharisees, false ones! for you go about land and sea to get one disciple and, having him, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.
Mat 23:16 A curse is on you, blind guides, who say, Whoever takes an oath by the Temple, it is nothing; but whoever takes an oath by the gold of the Temple, he is responsible.
Mat 23:17 You foolish ones and blind: which is greater, the gold, or the Temple which makes the gold holy?
Mat 23:18 And, Whoever takes an oath by the altar, it is nothing; but whoever takes an oath by the offering which is on it, he is responsible.
Mat 23:19 You blind ones: which is greater, the offering, or the altar which makes the offering holy?
Mat 23:20 He, then, who takes an oath by the altar, takes it by the altar and by all things on it.
Mat 23:21 And he who takes an oath by the Temple, takes it by the Temple and by him whose house it is.
Mat 23:22 And he who takes an oath by heaven, takes it by the seat of God, and by him who is seated on it.
Mat 23:23 A curse is on you, scribes and Pharisees, false ones! for you make men give a tenth of all sorts of sweet-smelling plants, but you give no thought to the more important things of the law, righteousness, and mercy, and faith; but it is right for you to do these, and not to let the others be undone.
Mat 23:24 You blind guides, who take out a fly from your drink, but make no trouble over a camel.
Mat 23:25 A curse is on you, scribes and Pharisees, false ones! for you make clean the outside of the cup and of the plate, but inside they are full of violent behaviour and uncontrolled desire.
Yeah the rulers of Jerusalem the high preists the religious Jews represent the people before God in thoer covenant . Those who ruled by the covenant made from Sinai and gave them the rule and authority over the people exactly. Bad shepherds was always thoer problem
They are the reason the old covenant was broken and the new was made through a new preisthood for a new creation that’s perfect because they defiled this one with thier sinful and rebellious rule inder the law breaking the everlasting covenant he made with them
“When the chief priests therefore and officers saw him, they cried out, saying, Crucify him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Take ye him, and crucify him: for I find no fault in him. The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God. Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin. And from thenceforth Pilate sought to release him: but the Jews cried out, saying, If thou let this man go, thou art not Cæsar's friend: whosoever maketh himself a king speaketh against Cæsar. And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King! But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Cæsar. Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified. And they took Jesus, and led him away.”
John 19:6-7, 11-12, 14-16
Ir wasn’t just the priests however
“But the chief priests and elders persuaded the multitude that they should ask Barabbas, and destroy Jesus. Pilate saith unto them, What shall I do then with Jesus which is called Christ? They all say unto him, Let him be crucified.”
Matthew 27:20, 22 KJV
the preists the religious zealots and also the multitudes of people who followed the priests and religious Jews. There was a remnant like the apostles and all the Israelites and n the gospel and book of acts and epistles that believes however as was foretold the faithful remnant remaining because of grace
Thank You Brother Aaron56 for your eloquent expression of our being Israel, IN CHRIST ... Gal 2:20
Let me expound a bit about, "another priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek" being Jesus as our High Priest and His work in the heavenly sanctuary: Psalm 110:4; Hebrews 7:17
1. Jesus in the Heavenly Sanctuary:
- Hebrews 8:1-2: “Now this is the main point of the things we are saying: We have such a High Priest, who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, a Minister of the sanctuary and of the true tabernacle which the Lord erected, and not man.”
- This speaks directly to the idea that Jesus is ministering in the heavenly sanctuary, which is the true sanctuary.
- Hebrews 9:24: “For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us.”
- Jesus is in the heavenly sanctuary, ministering on our behalf.
- Hebrews 4:14-16: “Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.”
- This emphasizes Jesus' role as a compassionate High Priest who understands our struggles.
- Hebrews 7:24-25: “But He, because He continues forever, has an unchangeable priesthood. Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.”
- This highlights Jesus’ ongoing intercession for us as our eternal High Priest.
- Luke 22:20: "Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, 'This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.'"
- Jesus’ blood establishes the new covenant, which He mediates as High Priest.
- Hebrews 8:6-13: “But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises… For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts.”
- This passage speaks of the new covenant with God’s law written in the hearts and minds of believers, being Christ's mediatorial work.
- Daniel 8:14: “And he said to me, 'For two thousand three hundred days; then the sanctuary shall be cleansed.'” The investigative judgment that began in 1844.
- Revelation 14:7: “Saying with a loud voice, 'Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.'”
- This verse points to the judgment being a present reality, which begins with the investigative judgment in the heavenly sanctuary.
- Hebrews 9:27-28: “And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.”
- This supports the idea that judgment is an ongoing process and will culminate at Christ’s second coming.
- John 1:29: “The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, ‘Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!’”
- Jesus as the Lamb of God who sacrifices Himself for the sins of humanity.
- Hebrews 7:26-27: “For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens; who does not need daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the people's, for this He did once for all when He offered up Himself.”
- This underscores Jesus' dual role as both High Priest and the sacrifice.
- Hebrews 9:28: “So Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him, He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.”
- This verse connects Christ’s work as High Priest with the second coming, when He will bring salvation to those waiting for Him.
- Revelation 22:12: “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work.”
- Jesus’ second coming will finalize the judgment and reward the faithful.
- Heavenly Sanctuary: Hebrews 8:1-2, Hebrews 9:24
- Christ as High Priest: Hebrews 4:14-16, Hebrews 7:24-25
- New Covenant: Luke 22:20, Hebrews 8:6-13
- Investigative Judgment: Daniel 8:14, Revelation 14:7, Hebrews 9:27-28
- Lamb and Priest: John 1:29, Hebrews 7:26-27
- Second Coming: Hebrews 9:28, Revelation 22:12
Concerning Zionism ( The people calling themselves "Israel" in the Middle East being IMPOSTORS. For the purposes of the Antichrist spirit, attempting to gain control of the Holy Lands.)
IN CHRIST Gal 2:20 ... We become Israel ( spiritually ) ... Grafted into the vine Jesus, covenant keeping and inheritors of God's Kingdom... so YES ! "all Israel will be saved". Romans 11:26. ~~~~> Amen .. & Thank You Jesus.
I am not "antisemitic" ... I am not ANTI- any nation, people or tongues. I AM ANTI - "AntiChrist", by being PRO-GOD
The Roman Church, attempted to secure the Holy Lands from Muslim control, by the Crusades, of the late 11th century to the late 13th century, The Pope promised the forgiving of sin to any who would participate. ( Pope forgiving sin = Blasphemy = AntiChrist )
The current Zionist Movement, ( as you summarized Gideon 300 ) has ALL been orchestrated, behind the scenes primarily ( secretly, as is her custom) by this same anti-Christ spirit, as a very convincing and effectual "Crusades" 2.0 .. another go at securing the Holy Lands, as Br. JaumeJ pointed out. Satan is working through various world systems, including the Roman Church, to assert control over sacred territories as a means to maintain religious and political influence. Satan's objective in this endeavor is to mislead people and divert them from the TRUE GOSPEL, using religious institutions and territorial claims to advance his agenda. Satan appears to be winning, BUT those of us who believe Jesus, and understand His Bible Prophecy, know how this turns out... IN CHRIST, WE WIN.. Not Satan and his Zionist Movement.
Blessings Folks
Yes. In Christ we are more than friends.
We are likely both correct in our views. From heaven (which is John's view after being invited to see things from the perspective of God) things are seen from an eternal point of view. In that view, time does not unfold as it does in the earth.
What is seen by John are the ultimate expressions of the thing perceived. So for example, while the woman with a crown may coincide with Israel and the manchild the promised messiah, the ultimate expression of that image is a manchild birthed from a promised bride. Once, it was Israel in the flesh... then it is Israel in the spirit. Once the Messiah was a man (Jesus) but now He is expressed as a many-membered Christ (a life-giving Spirit).
Was the book helpful to first century people about to be persecuted? Absolutely: the spiritual, ultimate expressions of iconic things and events are substantially the same as their counterparts that are revealed in time and space. Indeed, every generation may find similar solace in the writings and encouragements in the Book as similar events unfold in their own lives. The final generation that endures such things should have a rich historical record of how their spiritual kin overcame opposition in their time.
Your post is very thorough and well organized!
Yes. Spiritual things always have a physical representation. This is so that men may have no excuse in the light of judgement.
For rule to be righteous, for example, it must have a righteous appearing in the earth. This is the reason for the second coming: to appear, with those who are in Him, to the world, so that the world knows that we are, like Him, from the Father. This is first seen in our love toward one another and then, when this era is over, by our meeting with Him in the air as He returns to earth.
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