One is saved when they believe. One must first be regenerated for faith to transpire. Fixed it for you.
Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
- Thread starter LifelongLearner
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Yes, but that does not tell us why they believe. And the "why" was my point - that belief comes from salvation, it does
not bring salvation.
And "have eternal life" is in present tense, not future tense. IOW both are in the same present tense.
then they should both be in the same tense, not different tenses, if one directly causes the other.
It is really a sign of disproval, not malice. Look up Galatians 1:8-9, and see why.
One is saved when they believe. One is saved first then they believe.......Fixed it for you.
I brought the ranch for your word salads.
It doesn't say they chose to believe. It says they are to believe. One believes in Christ when the Spirit of God employs the word of God and faith is the result. If there is no such action by the Spirit, faith is not the result and unbelief persists. There is no place in scripture where we are told to choose to believe. We either believe or we do not.
Of course according to the massively voluminous posts that you have on the record, this "enabling" can only manifest itself as the result of the "pre-birth selection/election protocol" that God alone can do, as His unimpeachable sovereignty demands that no human interference or matter of choice be allowed as factors whatsoever.
Please confirm that you agree with the "pre-birth election protocol" (aka the Calvinist version of foreknowledge and predestination).
A simple yes or no answer will suffice.
I thank you for your attention to this matter.
I fixed your misrepresentation of what I believe. You had inaccurately characterized what I actually believe.
well, comes across as bitter, angry, clamorous, malicious ... no kindness, tenderness, forgiveness ...
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Faith is what they heard and believed!
So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.
Romans 10:17
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Romans 10:17
.
I believe... your teaching has made you irrational.
You don't know where else to go.
What can I tell you?
Lets try this....
Hello wonderful John!
Have I told you, I love you?
Even though you present a distorted view of God making him to be evil, I do!
And, I forgive you, John... for what God will never forgive unless you repent.
Better now?
Same thing. They are both clauses. It is a statement of truth.
They are presently true no matter when read. Yesterday it was presently true. Today it is presently true. Tomorrow it will be presently true.
One can't even make a case of "order" through the tenses.
But in Acts 16:31, one can certainly make a case of "order."
Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved........ Even our 3rd grade level English clearly shows it.
We would fail our test in 3rd grade if we said," Saved and in the future we will believe."
Right. The word of God imparts hearing...aka understanding, and that understanding results in faith. Faith results in belief. The word of God is what was not simply audibly heard, but was accompanied by understanding. Faith is not what was heard.
That is God's grace at work.
Grace subdues the depravity of the flesh so the soul can be made able to hear.
Again... salvation involves earthy issues. Not spiritual ones.
That is. Unless? Knowing that you sin requires spirituality.
you said ...
"meritorious" ... deserving reward or praise (from Oxford Languages).
Romans 4:
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
vs 4 = to him that works, the reward is not reckoned of grace, but of debt = "meritorious"
vs 5 = to him that works not, but believes on Him Who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness = not of works
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I am saying two different things: 1) regardless of when read, the two tenses should match if one is an immediate cause of the other and, 2) as a general doctrine - a topic separate from 1 above - that belief is from salvation; salvation isn't from belief.
Grace doesn't simply subdue depravity, it changes the heart. This isn't merely an "earthly issue", it is the essence of the restoration of an individual to a prefallen estate. It is actually an improved restorative state as the individual now is a partaker of the divine nature.