Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Kroogz]

Jesus’ words in John 6 verse 65 I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them. Plus Colossians 1 verse 21 and 2 verse 13; Ephesians 2 verse 1a and 3b; Philippians 1 verse 6 and 2 verse 13

If you are that bad, then you certainly need to be renewed by the Spirit.

Yes. The calvies can't offer hope, direction or Gods plan.(none can understand.)

I could possibly get elected, but my chances are slim.

 

[Rufus]

We all thank God that He did not leave it up to you.

I, too, am thankful that God did not leave it up to any mere mortal -- most especially you FWers who think you can dictate to God what is fair, right and just.

 

[Rufus]

The Bible doesn't say anything about the Natural Man not understanding what he hears that's spiritual. It says that he finds it to be foolishness.

In other words, someone can understand that the Bible claims they need God but they choose to ignore it because they believe they're good enough or something else.

You have the natural man being a moron. But in reality he really understands what is being said and that is precisely why he will be condemned for all eternity.

So...what the "natural man" finds foolishness means he determined that by a correct understanding of the gospel?

 

[lrs68]

I, too, am thankful that God did not leave it up to any mere mortal -- most especially you FWers who think you can dictate to God what is fair, right and just.

When God in both the Old and New Testaments states that He doesn't desire anyone to perish but to come to life it's very reasonable to believe that God is fair and just. Should He do the OPPOSITE of what He said then He would be a LIAR.

Who wants to serve a Liar?

 

[lrs68]

So...what the "natural man" finds foolishness means he determined that by a correct understanding of the gospel?

If someone said you need paddles for the raft you're on or when you hit the rapids you can flip and die.

But you say I don't need paddles because I am very good at rafting without paddles.

Then you end up dying.

But to the person who finds the Gospel to be foolishness...On judgement day God would say to you, you were told that you need Jesus but thought it was stupid to need a God you've never seen.

 

[Rufus]

It's good to see that you're finally coming to the truth!

But if you were to press HIH on what she said, I'd bet the farm that she'd equivocate and water it all down. What she would probably do is deny the efficacy of God's grace and deny the efficacy of the Holy Spirit's work.

 

[Magenta]

So...what the "natural man" finds foolishness means he determined that by a correct understanding of the gospel?

In the free will world of theology, it makes sense for people to decide to believe nonsense.

In their free will fantasy, the man with no wisdom who is under the power and influence of the evil one chooses God.

Of course they must rewrite 1 Cor 2:14 but oh well. It goes with their territory of contradicting and denying Scripture.

 

[HeIsHere]

I, too, am thankful that God did not leave it up to any mere mortal -- most especially you FWers who think you can dictate to God what is fair, right and just.

Blame shifting to other believers informs me you are not really all that settled on this false characterization of God,

perhaps examine your faulty doctrine and how it impugns the character of God.

It is not the God of the Bible, Christ Jesus destroys your false characterization.

 

[BillyBob]

The Bible doesn't say anything about the Natural Man not understanding what he hears that's spiritual. It says that he finds it to be foolishness.

John 8:43

 

[Genez]

It's good to see that you're finally coming to the truth!

But you are not understanding how that truth works.

You have accepted certain tenets of Calvinism, just like a good Catholic will accept Immaculate Conception as the answer as to how Jesus was born without a sin nature.

Yes! Without God's power of Grace to control our flesh? No one could possibly believe in God. Let alone, in Jesus.
It is just how the concept of Irresistible Grace became an equivalent answer to Immaculate Conception that is wrong.

Question:

If God removed your soul from your body?
Would your thinking still be controlled by the sin nature?

That holds a key to understanding the part of God's power of how Grace plays in bringing men to believing.

grace and peace!
.......

 

[lrs68]

John 8:43

LOL but we know that is because of what Isaiah, Jesus, and Paul tells us about the partial deafness and blindness.

The key is LOOK who Jesus is talking to.

 

[Rufus]

When God in both the Old and New Testaments states that He doesn't desire anyone to perish but to come to life it's very reasonable to believe that God is fair and just. Should He do the OPPOSITE of what He said then He would be a LIAR.

Who wants to serve a Liar?

What God desires speaks to His Dispositional Will, not his Decretive Will. Learn the difference already! Give me one text in the bible that teaches God has decreed the salvation of all men w/o exception. You are so blind to this truth that you cannot see that God has quantitatively limited the extent of his saving grace all throughout the bible -- beginning with the Fall! Read and learn!

Lam 3:33
33 For he does not willingly bring affliction
or grief to the children of men.
NIV

And this verse is in the context of God's judgment upon apostate Israel, which Jeremiah laments! So...while God does not want or take pleasure in his strange work (Isa 28:21), nevertheless twice in the OT God severely punished both kingdoms for breaking His covenant. And you don't even have the first clue why, do you? You're probably thinking simplistically that God would never do anything that he doesn't want/desire to do. But think about this: Once again your insipid doesn't even square with Natural Revelation (reality as we all know it). Have you personally never made any choice that you didn't want to make? Have you ever known anyone who has never made choices they did not desire to make? Even Jesus Christ did not desire to go to the Cross, yet he chose contrary to that desire, didn't He? Was it fair of the Father to send His Son into the world to do something that He didn't want to do!?

How long will you love your simplistic, naive ways?

 

[Genez]

Blame shifting to other believers informs me you are not really all that settled on this false characterization of God,

perhaps examine your faulty doctrine and how it impugns the character of God.

It is not the God of the Bible, Christ Jesus destroys your false characterization.

He is pushing what was pushed on him, secretly hoping someone would show him a way out.

In the meanwhile, he is trapped and frustrated (as evidenced by his aggressive bully tone).

 

[HeIsHere]

He is pushing what was pushed on him, secretly hoping someone would show him a way out.

In the meanwhile, he is trapped and frustrated (as evidenced by his aggressive bully tone).

sad face but yes I agree.

 

[Rufus]

But you are not understanding how that truth works.

You have accepted certain tenets of Calvinism, just like a good Catholic will accept Immaculate Conception as the answer as to how Jesus was born without a sin nature.

Yes!

Without God's power of Grace to control our flesh? No one could possibly believe in God. Let alone, in Jesus.
It is just how the concept of Irresistible Grace became an equivalent answer to Immaculate Conception that is wrong.

Question:

If God removed your soul from your body?
Would your thinking still be controlled by the sin nature?

That holds a key to understanding the part of God's power of how Grace plays in bringing men to believing.

grace and peace!
.......

Ask that question of the condemned who are now in hell! What do you think is controlling their nature in their torment: Holiness, Righteousness and Goodness? Now that they're in their eternal state of damnation, you think they suddenly love God?

 

[Genez]

What God desires speaks to His Dispositional Will, not his Decretive Will. Learn the difference already! Give me one text in the bible that teaches God has decreed the salvation of all men w/o exception. You are so blind to this truth that you cannot see that God has quantitatively limited the extent of his saving grace all throughout the bible -- beginning with the Fall! Read and learn!

Lam 3:33
33 For he does not willingly bring affliction
or grief to the children of men.
NIV

And this verse is in the context of God's judgment upon apostate Israel, which Jeremiah laments! So...while God does not want or take pleasure in his strange work (Isa 28:21), nevertheless twice in the OT God severely punished both kingdoms for breaking His covenant. And you don't even have the first clue why, do you? You're probably thinking simplistically that God would never do anything that he doesn't want/desire to do. But think about this: Once again your insipid doesn't even square with Natural Revelation (reality as we all know it). Have you personally never made any choice that you didn't want to make? Have you ever known anyone who has never made choices they did not desire to make? Even Jesus Christ did not desire to go to the Cross, yet he chose contrary to that desire, didn't He? Was it fair of the Father to send His Son into the world to do something that He didn't want to do!?

How long will you love your simplistic, naive ways?

You see God as a divine Gang Boss.

What the boss wants! The boss gets!
Who are you to say he can not do that?

It makes you feel good to think that way.
For you have never taken that aspect of your flesh to the Cross in your life.

Jesus wants to transform you into a real man.
You want God to take your concept of what it means to be a man, to make you feel secure in it.

It don't work that way.

 

[lrs68]

What God desires speaks to His Dispositional Will, not his Decretive Will. Learn the difference already! Give me one text in the bible that teaches God has decreed the salvation of all men w/o exception. You are so blind to this truth that you cannot see that God has quantitatively limited the extent of his saving grace all throughout the bible -- beginning with the Fall! Read and learn!

Lam 3:33
33 For he does not willingly bring affliction
or grief to the children of men.
NIV

And this verse is in the context of God's judgment upon apostate Israel, which Jeremiah laments! So...while God does not want or take pleasure in his strange work (Isa 28:21), nevertheless twice in the OT God severely punished both kingdoms for breaking His covenant. And you don't even have the first clue why, do you? You're probably thinking simplistically that God would never do anything that he doesn't want/desire to do. But think about this: Once again your insipid doesn't even square with Natural Revelation (reality as we all know it). Have you personally never made any choice that you didn't want to make? Have you ever known anyone who has never made choices they did not desire to make? Even Jesus Christ did not desire to go to the Cross, yet he chose contrary to that desire, didn't He? Was it fair of the Father to send His Son into the world to do something that He didn't want to do!?

How long will you love your simplistic, naive ways?

How long will you keep making God double minded by claiming He has multiple Wills?

Do you serve a skitzo for a God?

 

[Rufus]

If someone said you need paddles for the raft you're on or when you hit the rapids you can flip and die.

But you say I don't need paddles because I am very good at rafting without paddles.

Then you end up dying.

But to the person who finds the Gospel to be foolishness...On judgement day God would say to you, you were told that you need Jesus but thought it was stupid to need a God you've never seen.

Thank you for affirming the very point to my question! Obviously, the dead rafter did not understand rightly the ins and outs of proper and safe rafting, did he?

 

[Rufus]

[QUOTE="Genez, post: 5557357, member: 262512"]You see God as a divine Gang Boss.

What the boss wants! The boss gets!
Who are you to say he can not do that?

It makes you feel good to think that way.
For you have never taken that aspect of your flesh to the Cross in your life.

Jesus wants to transform you into a real man.
You want God to take your concept of what it means to be a man, to make you feel secure in it.

It don't work that way. [/QUOTE]

More lies that totally misrepresent the Reformed position. Reformed folks see God in a thoroughly biblical way: As the Supreme, Holy, Righteous and Good Ruler of the Universe -- which obviously you do not. You think that man shares the spotlight with God Almighty and that His will is contingent on man's! Man is truly the pilot of his ship and God is merely the co-pilot, basing his choices on the pilot's!

 

[lrs68]

Thank you for affirming the very point to my question! Obviously, the dead rafter did not understand rightly the ins and outs of proper and safe rafting, did he?

Just like Natural Man doesn't realize there's really life after death.