Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[HeIsHere]

"conceived in sin"
Sounds down right medieval.

Article 3: Total Inability

Therefore, all people are conceived in sin and are born children of wrath, unfit for any saving good, inclined to evil, dead in their sins, and slaves to sin. Without the grace of the regenerating Holy Spirit they are neither willing nor able to return to God, to reform their distorted nature, or even to dispose themselves to such reform.

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[reneweddaybyday]

Jesus is Lord and that to the glory of God the Father. And I'm not in unbelief regardless of your claim.

it occurred to me that your definition of unbelief and my definition of unbelief are not aligned (hah! what a shocker).

Perhaps your definition of unbelief means unbeliever ... as in not born again ... is that what you think? ... that I claimed you are not born again? If so, that was not what I meant.

my comment was narrowed to one specific issue ... katallássō ... not the gospel by which a person is born again.

You profess you don't care about when the Spirit is given,

I said "all I care about is the baby" ... the new birth within which is spiritual in nature ... and which is to grow from new babe in Christ feeding on the milk of the word to mature and feeding on the meat of the word (1 Cor 3:1-3) ... not tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive (Eph 4:14) ... those have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil (Heb 5:14).

I am not going to argue with you whether a person is born again at the time he or she believes the gospel or prior to believing the gospel ... the issue is belief in the gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation to every one who believes.

and then say my understanding represents unbelief. Your statement is inconsistent with the whole of your comments.

You do believe born again believers are capable of denying the truth of Scripture ... check out this post wherein you "liked" Magenta's comment that "FWers contradict and deny" ... "say all manner of things that directly contradict and outright deny what is written". Do you believe those who claim to be FWers who have posted in this thread are not born again?

I provided the meaning of katallássō here ... is there an "assumption or presupposition" you hold when it comes to katallássō ?
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[cv5]

I was reading through the Canon's of Dort

as one of my sons would say "that is messed up!

I cannot even believe it is accepted within the Christian tradition.

A lot of those "Canonical opinions" and doctrinal dogma are not worth the time to read IMO.

 

[cv5]

"conceived in sin"
Sounds down right medieval.

Article 3: Total Inability

Therefore, all people are conceived in sin and are born children of wrath, unfit for any saving good, inclined to evil, dead in their sins, and slaves to sin. Without the grace of the regenerating Holy Spirit they are neither willing nor able to return to God, to reform their distorted nature, or even to dispose themselves to such reform.

Link

Reformed.......TRADITION.

 

[cv5]

There is not ONE "Pelagian heretic" On this forum. We are bad to the core sis.

But there is not ONE verse in His word that says," Man cannot believe His Gospel to be saved."

Study God for a bit. He is full of Grace and mercy.

Your bitterness comes from your infatuation with man and his faults and failures.

And that is some industrial grade bitterness.

 

[Genez]

From the Canons of Dort...

I wonder if one joins a Reformed Church if that increases the odds of winning the salvation lottery.

Article 10: Election Based on God’s Good Pleasure

But the cause of this undeserved election is exclusively the good pleasure of God. This does not involve God’s choosing certain human qualities or actions from among all those possible as a condition of salvation, but rather involves adopting certain particular persons from among the common mass of sinners as God’s own possession. As Scripture says, “When the children were not yet born, and had done nothing either good or bad . . . , she (Rebecca) was told, ‘The older will serve the younger.’ As it is written, ‘Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated’” (Rom. 9:11-13). Also, “All who were appointed for eternal life believed” (Acts 13:48).

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They only presented a side of the mystery concerning salvation.
Like the Catholics tried to produce and answer for how Jesus was born without sin.

God knows.
Ultimately, we need real answers.
Not inventions that only appear to be a plausible answer...
And, may stabilize believers for as long as the answer is not scrutinized.

 

[Magenta]

Sounds down right medieval.

Sounds Biblical. But we know you do not like that. Born children of wrath
is Biblical also, as is inability, which we know you do not like, either.
Gosh, there is just so much in the Bible that you do not like! You
prefer your vain self-exalting theology over what is actually written.

John 14 v 17a, Romans 8 v 6-9 ~ “Inability” in Bible. The world cannot receive the Spirit of truth. The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God. You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. Praise be to God for calling me out of the world.

 

[Magenta]

From: John 8 verse 34; 2 Peter 2 verse 19a; Galatians 4 verse 8; Romans 7 verse 14; Ephesians 2 verse 3b; Romans 6 verse 6 ~ “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin.” They are slaves of corruption. When you did not know God, you were enslaved to those that by nature are not gods. You were of the flesh, sold under sin. We were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. Our old self was crucified so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin.

 

[Magenta]

Romans 5 verse 12 Ephesians 2 verse 3 Just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, so also death was passed on to all men, because all sinned. We were by nature children of wrath.
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[HeIsHere]

A lot of those "Canonical opinions" and doctrinal dogma are not worth the time to read IMO.

Most definitely and painful. Certainly any "doctrine" built on a sense of "divine selection exclusivity" is bordering on cultic.

 

[BillyBob]

Without the grace of the regenerating Holy Spirit they are neither willing nor able to return to God,

It's good to see that you're finally coming to the truth!

 

[HeIsHere]

I am not going to argue with you whether a person is born again at the time he or she believes the gospel or prior to believing the gospel ... the issue is belief in the gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation to every one who believes.

It is actually the center of the debate.
If one is born again prior to belief than there is really no need for the Gospel to have any power.

Watch out for the tangled mess they like to pull people into, just a friendly fyi.

 

[Kroogz]

You prefer your vain self-exalting theology over what is actually written.

John 14 v 17a, Romans 8 v 6-9 ~ “Inability” in Bible. The world cannot receive the Spirit of truth. The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God. You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. Praise be to God for calling me out of the world.

Yeah, this sounds soooooo self exalting:

Lord I am a sinner in need of salvation. I place my trust in you and only you.

You and all calvies believe this "self-exalting" truth.

 

[Magenta]

If one is born again prior to belief than there is really no need for the Gospel to have any power.

Says you who loves to distort what the verse actually says, since you ALWAYS
leave off that it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes.

 

[Kroogz]

Says you who loves to distort what the verse actually says, since you ALWAYS
leave off that it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes.

And the calvies slip this in the backdoor........" it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, but none have the ability to believe."

 

[HeIsHere]

And the calvies slip this in the backdoor........" it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, but none have the ability to believe."

Too funny, the full verse adds more power to why "reformed" doctrine is wrong.
It does not state "upon whom God bestows belief."

Exactly, "BELIEVES" is an ability they possess, no scripture states a person is unable to believe, born that way from birth, the one who sees it as "foolishness" is the one who chose not to believe.

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.
Romans 1:16

 

[Magenta]

Jesus’ words in John 6 verse 65 I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them. Plus Colossians 1 verse 21 and 2 verse 13; Ephesians 2 verse 1a and 3b; Philippians 1 verse 6 and 2 verse 13

 

[Magenta]

It came to my attention recently that when the natural man who does not comprehend the gospel is mentioned
(hearing it as foolishness), some (many more than one) of our free willers have no idea who that refers to! They
are so busy ascribing to the natural man what only the spiritual man is capable of that they completely overlook
what the Bible actually says of either of them. Overlook, contradict, and outright deny, to the point where they
claim personal spiritual revelation is not even necessary even though Jesus said otherwise.

In 1 Cor 2 verse 14, the natural man, still unsaved, cannot comprehend the spiritual things of God. He does not understand Christ’s atoning sacrifice, for that is foolishness to him (1 Cor 1 verse 18). The Holy Spirit Himself must convict him of its reality, and of his standing before God (John 16 verses 7-11).So this natural man is unregenerated, one who does not have the Holy Spirit residing within him. As Jesus said, “Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit” (John 3 verse 6).

 

[BillyBob]

We are bad to the core sis.

If you are that bad, then you certainly need to be renewed by the Spirit.

 

[lrs68]

It came to my attention recently that when the natural man who does not comprehend the gospel is mentioned
(hearing it as foolishness), some (many more than one) of our free willers have no idea who that refers to! They
are so busy ascribing to the natural man what only the spiritual man is capable of that they completely overlook
what the Bible actually says of either of them. Overlook, contradict, and outright deny, to the point where they
claim personal spiritual revelation is not even necessary even though Jesus said otherwise.

In 1 Cor 2 verse 14, the natural man, still unsaved, cannot comprehend the spiritual things of God. He does not understand Christ’s atoning sacrifice, for that is foolishness to him (1 Cor 1 verse 18). The Holy Spirit Himself must convict him of its reality, and of his standing before God (John 16 verses 7-11).So this natural man is unregenerated, one who does not have the Holy Spirit residing within him. As Jesus said, “Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit” (John 3 verse 6).

The Bible doesn't say anything about the Natural Man not understanding what he hears that's spiritual. It says that he finds it to be foolishness.

In other words, someone can understand that the Bible claims they need God but they choose to ignore it because they believe they're good enough or something else.

You have the natural man being a moron. But in reality he really understands what is being said and that is precisely why he will be condemned for all eternity.