You obviously do not understand what Hermeneutics is about or any of its sound, rock-solid interpretative principles. God did not choose Christ; He chose his elect.
Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
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You obviously do not understand what Hermeneutics is about or any of its sound, rock-solid interpretative principles. God did not choose Christ; He chose his elect.
But it doesn't mean EVERY individual from every nation in the world. Rev 5 and 7 affirm that "world" is used in the limited sense of all men w/o distinction. And this also proves there is no partiality with God!
"For he chose us in him before the creation of the world
to be holy and blameless in his sight." Ephesians 1:4
It says that God chose us, "in Him."
Not, simple chose us.
Ever wonder?
How are we now found to be "in Him?
And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him
in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus." Ephesians 2:6
in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus." Ephesians 2:6
Our eternal bodies are now hidden in Him.
Just as the woman's body was in Adam? Before she was made manifest in bodily form?
We are to become bone of His glorious bones, and glorious flesh of His glorified Body!
Meaning?
Before the creation of the world?
God chose those whom we find in the Church, to be...... His Bride!
That is what we were chosen for!
To do that, God predestined us to be on earth during the Church age so that when we believed?
We would instantly be baptized into HIS BODY.
Now...
That reads quite a bit differently than the stuffed, and hammered into a box, Calvinistic view.
And it allows for one to breathe easy and be relaxed about what it says.
grace and peace .............
Yes this is all true my thing is that many believe that their efforts do equate to to their salvation when it is not how it works.
The issue of limited atonement would mean that some are chosen to be saved and others not when I confront someone about this idea they are dead set in their way of thinking and this is an issue because then they will never learn.
I mean take this thread for instance see how long it is over a simple matter? Or at least it should be simple, free will salvation election all these things are spoken about in scripture and yet still we find ourselves disagreeing with each other
You're truly desperate, aren't you? You need to take courses in Hermeneutics! And besides the "us" is clearly identified: The saints in Ephesus (Eph 1:2) to whom Paul was writing and, therefore, by extension all New Covenant believers.
Free will is not spoken about in Scripture. That is the problem. Men are slaves to sin until set free. And then?
They are blinded to the truth, cannot comprehend the spiritual things of God, are opposed to them,
the gospel is hid, they hear it as foolishness, nobody chooses to believe what they hear as nonsense.
Nothing, NOTHING, good dwells in his flesh which serves the law of sin and CANNOT submit to God.
They are hostile to God. Hate Him. That is the person free willers claim choose to obey God & believe the gospel.
The big exception, of course, are FWers themselves. Man's "freewill" can do virtually anything.
Ah yes you are right free will is not specifically spoken about, people are given choices to make all throughout scripture but that is about as close as it gets
Choosing what colour of socks to wear or what to have for lunch has no bearing on the eternal fate of your soul.
Nothing said of man in Scripture points to a will that is free when it comes to salvation. Absolutely nothing.
All sin. None are righteous. None good. A bad tree cannot bring forth good fruit.
He does not even seek for God apart from God drawing Him.
Luke 18 verses 25-27 (Matthew 19 verses 24-26, Mark 10 verses 25-27) “Indeed, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” Those who heard this asked, “Who then can be saved?” But Jesus said, “What is impossible with man is possible with God.”
We will always find disagreement over scripture until Christ returns. Some is due to the way scripture is written, and some due to willful ignorance, and some due to assumptions and presuppositions we hold. All of these are true of us to some degree. But where scripture is clear, we should find greater agreement than we do. Until then, we should endeavor to give an answer for the hope that is in us. And pray for people that God will give greater understanding and wisdom to all.
PLUS Scripture says it is not by the desire will or effort of man but the desire and will of God.
But FWers contradict and deny such verses. They say all manner of
things that directly contradict and outright deny what is written.
That's the problem you are having.
It does not say "only some."
That was only referring specifically to the many who are saved.
For... "Many of us are saved.
Yet, Jesus died for all who could have been saved, if they so chose.
That is why going to Hell is their own fault.
God can not condemn what he causes outside of the will of another.
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God,
who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe."
1 Timothy 4:10
who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe."
1 Timothy 4:10
.
Odd...
Then why was Jesus telling Nicodemus (who was a prominent Jew) that He was to die for the world, and not include what you just claimed?
The thing is though if choice in itself exists even if a simple one like what socks you will wear the mere fact that a choice does exist even though it has nothing to do with our salvation that I think is where they are drawing the line about free will.
I think it is the existance of choice that makes one believe in free willl regardless if it has to do with salvation or not. Of course scripture does not speak on this matter so we have to go by what it does speak on and it does speak of election as well as the issue of salvation so if we can understand these things maybe we can better understand things not spoken of in scripture like free will
That means you can fast, and beg God to save your uncle.
You may desire deeply for him to be saved.
But you'd be wasting your time.
Your uncle's salvation does not depend upon your tears and fasting.
It all depends solely upon what goes on between God and your uncle.
.
Why ignore everything said of man just because you can decide between fries or salad with lunch?
The latter has zero to do with salvation and is merely a red herring to confuse the issue.
Man’s heart is deceitful above all things and incurable (Jer 17 v 9), himself full of evil (Mark 7 v 21-23), loves darkness rather than light (John 3 v 19), cannot come to God on his own (John 6 v 44), does not seek for God (Rom 3 v 10-12), is helpless and ungodly (Rom 5 v 6), nothing good dwells in his flesh (Rom 7 v 18), is a slave of sin (Rom 6 v 20, John 8 v 34, 2 Tim 2 v 26), cannot receive spiritual things (1 Cor 2 v 14), is dead in his sins (Eph 2 v 1), is by nature a child of wrath (Eph 2 v 3), is at enmity with God (Eph 2 v 15), hostile to God and cannot submit to God's law (Rom 8 v 7), blinded by Satan (2 Cor 4 v 4), hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his evil deeds will be exposed (John 3 v 20). Therefore we rightfully conclude in accordance with the conditions described of the unregenerated man in Scripture that his inborn inclination is to reject God. Thanks be to God, Who appoints people to believe (Acts 13 v 48), chooses who is to be holy and blameless (Eph 1 v 4), predestines us to adoption (Eph 1 v 5), calls according to His purpose (2 Tim 1 v 9), chooses us for salvation (2 Thes 2 v 13), leads us to and grants us repentance (Rom 2 v 4, 2 Tim 2 v 24-25), grants the act of believing (Phil 1 v 29), works faith in the believer (John 6 v 28-29), causes us to be born again (1 Pet 1 v 3), born again not by our will, effort or desire but by His will and desire (John 1 v 12-13), grants that we come to Jesus (John 6 v 65), draws people to Himself (John 6 v 44), predestines us to salvation (Rom 8 v 29-30), and circumcises our heart (with the heart one believes [Rom 10 v 10]) as promised in Deut 30 v 6, all according to His purpose (Phil 2 v 13). The stony ground of man’s wicked heart is not good soil. A bad tree cannot bring forth good fruit. Jesus said so! (Matt 7 v 18 + 12 v 33; Luke 6 v 43). All this and more weighed against zero verses articulating the so-called “free will” of the natural man, which is a vain man-exalting philosophically based doctrine erroneously and egregiously elevated to Bible truth. Praise God and to His glory, what is impossible with man is possible with God.
Which was what I said. He died for our sins.
Honestly, half the time I don't know what you're arguing against.
On what basis? You do understand synonymous means "same"? The latter might flow from the other but they are not the same thing. Other things are equally plausible to flow like obligation, responsibilty or duty.