Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[lrs68]

You miss the point. Many people here say Jesus paid for the sins of all mankind. I offered 3 verses...Matthew 20:28, Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 9:28...all of which categorically state this isn't the case. And since it is not the case, many of the presuppositions set forth based on it being the case are simply false.
God did choose us in Christ. Is Christ preeminent over all? Of course. Were we chosen? Indeed we are. There is no need to exclude what verses plainly state.

I believe the works Jesus completed upon the Cross is enough for every single human ever born from Adam until the end. But only those truly saved will be regenerated.

 

[Cameron143]

I agree but when Jesus spoke it's word for word from God Himself directly. So no human interference.

There was no human interference when holy men of old spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

 

[rogerg]

So far no one can state the conditions, criteria for success, to earn a spot on the pre-birth lottery salvation list

The only condition is that God chose someone for salvation from His exceeding mercy and grace by His good pleasure.
Being God, He needs no justification beyond that. The good pleasure of His choice is His reason.

[Eph 1:5 KJV] 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

 

[Cameron143]

So far no one can state the conditions, criteria for success, to earn a spot on the pre-birth lottery salvation list.

Lots of people have told you. You simply don't like the answer: God's sovereign choice.

 

[Cameron143]

I believe the works Jesus completed upon the Cross is enough for every single human ever born from Adam until the end. But only those truly saved will be regenerated.

Yet I just gave you 3 scriptures that say otherwise.

 

[rogerg]

My point is that Paul didn't say those written in the Book of Life. He's just writing a Letter.

But I agree with your post. Christ is the Plan that was created before the foundation of the world.

Don't agree with me. That is NOT what I said in my prior post to you, and please don't try to hijack my statements for your own purposes.

 

[cv5]

This is what you tell yourself to believe so many falsehoods. You only care to know some things of God, and not all. But God is most glorified when the knowledge of His glory is fully known. He can't have the earth filled with the knowledge of His glory if all His attributes are not on display. God is equally glorified in the knowledge of His sovereignty, justice, and anger as He is in the display of His mercy, grace, and love. Until you understand this, you will continue to despise the fulness of the knowledge of the glory of the Lord.

If that is some kind of attempt at denying the undeniable, deflection or another bafflegab smokescreen.....it did not work.

BTW, God created everything "good" to begin with. And fit for eternal bliss.

God never creates something evil and fit for eternal damnation.

However those who CHOOSE to depart from the Living God, do not CHOOSE to "receive Him" when He calls.....suffer the inevitable consequences. And God is never liable for those wrong CHOICES.

Jesus came to save. And some are not willing to accomodate Him. Simple as that

[Mat 10:13-15 KJV]
13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.

14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

 

[Cameron143]

If that is some kind of attempt at denying the undeniable, deflection or another bafflegab smokescreen.....it did not work.

BTW, God created everything "good" to begin with. And fit for eternal bliss.

God never creates something evil and fit for eternal damnation.

However those who CHOOSE to depart from the Living God, do not CHOOSE to "receive Him" when He calls.....suffer the inevitable consequences. And God is never liable for those wrong CHOICES.

Jesus came to save. And some are not willing to accomodate Him. Simple as that

[Mat 10:13-15 KJV]
13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.

14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

I never said God created anything evil. More false things you ascribe. But do have a question for you: Hebrews 9:28 states that Jesus was once offered to bear the sins of many. Did Jesus bear the sins of all humanity on the cross or just some?

 

[cv5]

So far no one can state the conditions, criteria for success, to earn a spot on the pre-birth lottery salvation list.

That line of pseudo philosophy is unbiblical to begin with.

God simply does not function according to the pattern that the super-determinists proclaim. Such as the pre-birth lottery. That kind of absurd and detestable concept simply doesn't exist as far as the Trinity is concerned.

 

[Rufus]

God did choose US, He chose us to be saved through Christ. But the emphasis is only about Who saves. You are making it about man.

I'm making my interpretation based on WHO the object of the verb "chose" is. And Christ is not that object. In fact, He isn't even the subject!

And how ironic that you complain about me "making it about man", when after I beamed up several passages that teach that man's ways are not in himself, you responded that the generic terms "man" or "man's = the saved. Why don't you just own the truth about yourself already and admit that you don't like God's thoughts or ways very much because your thoughts and your ways are so much better and higher than His?

 

[cv5]

I never said God created anything evil.

Sure you did. In fact you, @Rufus ,@Magenta all TRULY believe that God created beings who are totally depraved. Beings who are inherently wicked, despised by God, and utterly incapable of hearing or understanding the gospel message.

Therefore created explicitly and expressly for the lake of fire.

 

[Rufus]

HeIsHere said:


So far no one can state the conditions, criteria for success, to earn a spot on the pre-birth lottery salvation list.

Oh...so you want "conditions", do you. Try reading the unconditional, unilateral conditions of the New Covenant someday.

 

[Rufus]

I explained that. It is because God placed in Christ, from before the foundation of the world, all those who must become saved.
Since Christ alone is the Savior, there is no other way unto salvation but to first have been placed in Him
Therefore, those not placed in Christ (from before the foundation of the world), can never become saved.

FWers refuse to understand that election is also a two-sided coin. Since God chose his elect in Christ before the beginning of time, then this immediately infers that He did not choose the non-elect to be in Jesus.

 

[Rufus]

My point is that Paul didn't say those written in the Book of Life. He's just writing a Letter.

But I agree with your post. Christ is the Plan that was created before the foundation of the world.

And the chosen ones of God are not in that Plan, as well? What is God saving: Fruit trees?

 

[Magenta]

You miss the point. Many people here say Jesus paid for the sins of all mankind. I offered 3 verses...Matthew 20:28, Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 9:28...all of which categorically state this isn't the case. And since it is not the case, many of the presuppositions set forth based on it being the case are simply false.
God did choose us in Christ. Is Christ preeminent over all? Of course. Were we chosen? Indeed we are. There is no need to exclude what verses plainly state.

What about Matthew 1 v 21 She will give birth to a Son, and you are to
give Him the name Jesus, because He will save His people from their sins.

 

[Genez]

I just demonstrated from scripture in post #8400 that your doctrine that Christ paid for the sins of all is false. Is this one of the "truths" you set forth for my benefit? Wrong doctrine doesn't help anyone, and you have your fair share of it. Several times I have asked for scriptural evidence of your claims which by your own admission you were unable to give. I did search the scriptures to see if some of the things you proposed were found there. They were not. You are not a trustworthy source of biblical truth on a number of matters.

He himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours,
but also for those of the whole world." 1 John 2:2



That tells you and everyone here, what?

​

I wonder what your real problem is.

One more time!

He himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours,
but also for those of the whole world." 1 John 2:2


It does not say....



He himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours,
but also for all those believers yet to be born." 1 John 2:2




.​

 

[Rufus]

I believe the works Jesus completed upon the Cross is enough for every single human ever born from Adam until the end. But only those [regenerated will be truly saved] .

FTFY and saved you from backwards, satanic thinking.

 

[Rufus]

He himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours,
but also for those of the whole world." 1 John 2:2



That tells you and everyone here, what?




.​

That John made a distinction with a difference between Jewish believers and Gentile believers in the world. The Jews never considered themselves to be just another nation in the world. The considered themselves to be separate from the world. Glad you asked, though...

 

[Magenta]

Lots of people have told you. You simply don't like the answer: God's sovereign choice.

Cue the screeching against God's sovereignty... for His good pleasure... according to His purpose.

 

[Cameron143]

Sure you did. In fact you, @Rufus ,@Magenta all TRULY believe that God created beings who are totally depraved. Beings who are inherently wicked, despised by God, and utterly incapable of hearing or understanding the gospel message.

Therefore created explicitly and expressly for the lake of fire.

I don't believe any of what you stated. That's more false attribution.
Now to the question from Hebrews 9:28: did Jesus bear the sins of all of humanity on the cross or only for many?