Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Magenta]

I think it earnestly stems from preconceived notions of God based on a misunderstanding of scripture. But showing that Christ didn't universally bear in His body the sins of all humanity should go a long way in helping people go back and reconsider the verses that they believe suggest otherwise. At least one can hope.

She has as good as admitted that she does not know God, since mocking and scoffing the idea
that God reveals Himself to people is one of her favourite pastimes here, despite the fact that
Jesus says it is necessary in order to know God, and it is also God fulfilling His promise to us.

Matthew 11 verse 27 ~ All things have been entrusted to Me by My Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him.

 

[Genez]

That's just another sin you say is paid for. No biggie. Sins don't lead to condemnation.

Are you A.I.?
Heartless enough.

Don't you realize that some of the truths you keep rejecting (just to try to win an argument) are for your benefit, too?

 

[Cameron143]

Are you A.I.?
Heartless enough.

Don't you realize that some of the truths you keep rejecting (just to try to win an argument) are for your benefit, too?

I just demonstrated from scripture in post #8400 that your doctrine that Christ paid for the sins of all is false. Is this one of the "truths" you set forth for my benefit? Wrong doctrine doesn't help anyone, and you have your fair share of it. Several times I have asked for scriptural evidence of your claims which by your own admission you were unable to give. I did search the scriptures to see if some of the things you proposed were found there. They were not. You are not a trustworthy source of biblical truth on a number of matters.

 

[lrs68]

You've already had it explained how it isn't arbitrary. God chose before the foundation of the world a people for Himself. Christ secured it.
The many are those who Christ bore in His body their sins. Same group I just mentioned above. So you can continue to believe God acted randomly and universally, but that isn't consistent with biblical teaching.

The Bible actually says that God Chose Jesus before the foundation of the world for believers to be saved by and who they would be in. Nowhere does it say that God chose a people. It literally says Jesus.

 

[Cameron143]

The Bible actually says that God Chose Jesus before the foundation of the world for believers to be saved by and who they would be in. Nowhere does it say that God chose a people. It literally says Jesus.

God chose US in Him according to Ephesians 1:4. It specifically says chose us. You may argue who "us" is, but this verse isn't speaking about Jesus being chosen. The object of chose is definitively us.

 

[Magenta]

Romans 8 verse 29-30; Ephesians 1 verse 5 ~ Those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified. He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will.

 

[cv5]

God only loves some people, why are some lovable and not others?

Do you have that love/success criteria yet?

Surely Jesus would have explained why He only loves the "selected" and not others and why they are selected for salvation?

God hates pretty much everybody. God creates in order to torment for eternity....on purpose.

That's the predominant message of the super-determinists.

 

[Magenta]

God chose US in Him according to Ephesians 1:4. It specifically says chose us. You may argue who
"us" is, but this verse isn't speaking about Jesus being chosen. The object of chose is definitively us.

This too has been addressed multiple times. These people are so attached
to their error, they refuse to accept what Scripture actually explicitly says.

 

[lrs68]

God chose US in Him according to Ephesians 1:4. It specifically says chose us. You may argue who "us" is, but this verse isn't speaking about Jesus being chosen. The object of chose is definitively us.

Us is a word for Believers but it's who we [(ARE IN)] which is Jesus that was the Chosen One.

The Person we are SAVED BY was chosen before the foundation of the world.

Who was that Person?

Jesus!

 

[Cameron143]

God hates pretty much everybody. God creates in order to torment for eternity....on purpose.

That's the predominant message of the super-determinists.

This is what you tell yourself to believe so many falsehoods. You only care to know some things of God, and not all. But God is most glorified when the knowledge of His glory is fully known. He can't have the earth filled with the knowledge of His glory if all His attributes are not on display. God is equally glorified in the knowledge of His sovereignty, justice, and anger as He is in the display of His mercy, grace, and love. Until you understand this, you will continue to despise the fulness of the knowledge of the glory of the Lord.

 

[Cameron143]

Us is a word for Believers but it's who we [(ARE IN)] which is Jesus that was the Chosen One.

The Person we are SAVED BY was chosen before the foundation of the world.

Who was that Person?

Jesus!

You are ignoring the plain reading of scripture to craft your own narrative. Not good. The verse says what it says.

 

[lrs68]

You are ignoring the plain reading of scripture to craft your own narrative. Not good. The verse says what it says.

We can't save ourselves and that Verse is about Who was chosen before the foundation of the world TO SAVE US.

 

[HeIsHere]

God hates pretty much everybody. God creates in order to torment for eternity....on purpose.

That's the predominant message of the super-determinists.

On other threads at least there were Calvinists the owned it and stated it very clearly,

of course based on the verse,
"Jacob I have loved, but Esau I hated"
Malachi 1:2-3.

There is always THE "proof text quite" used rather carelessly.

 

[Rufus]

He thinks sins are deeds.

And, he is always doing his deed for the day.

(I hate it when he is bored.... he creates ways to argue)

Good grief! You are literally stuck in the groove of your self-induced ignorance! You aren't even aware of fundamental truths! You have no idea that deeds can be good or evil? You don't know that sin always finds its expression in man's thoughts, words and deeds? Check out these passages: 1Sam 24:13; 2Sam 3:39; Ezr 9:13; Prov 5:22; Isa 1:16; 59:6; Jer 5:28; 23:22; Hos 7:2; Act 19:18. And these passages are just the tip of the iceberg. If we plug in the term "evildoer" (you know...sinners who actually sin by DOING evil deeds) into our digital concordances, we'll come up with about 32 more passages.

Go pedal your useless horse manure elsewhere and quit pretending you're this big, educated, learned, wise, discerning biblical scholar who has answers for everything. There are some here who are not fooled by the theological trash you post.

 

[Rufus]

rolleyes ... you should flush your foolish questions down the sewer before you click on "Post reply".
.

It's very telling how so many FWers here squawk at my questions. I guess you've never noticed how often Jesus asked questions to both his disciples and to his detractors! And where would civilization be today if it weren't for critical thinking people asking good questions that motivated them or others to search for answers? Do you think the gazillions of inventions in this world came about without people first asking good questions?

 

[Cameron143]

We can't save ourselves and that Verse is about Who was chosen before the foundation of the world TO SAVE US.

This is completely false. A plain reading of the verse and a basic knowledge of grammar proves you wrong.

On a related topic, Hebrews 9:28 states that Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many. Does this verse teach that Jesus bore the sins in His body of all or some?

 

[Cameron143]

It's very telling how so many FWers here squawk at my questions. I guess you've never noticed how often Jesus asked questions to both his disciples and to his detractors! And where would civilization be today if it weren't for critical thinking people asking good questions that motivated them or others to search for answers? Do you think the gazillions of inventions in this world came about without people first asking good questions?

Oh, they've already said that they aren't required to give an answer for the hope that is within them.

 

[Rufus]

And so was foreknowledge which came before election.

Strewth. The lengths you go to.

Excellent point, especially since foreknowledge is virtually synonymous with Divine Prerogative.

 

[Rufus]

Oh, they've already said that they aren't required to give an answer for the hope that is within them.

And that doesn't bode very well for them if they can't answer that question.

Some FWer yesterday wanted to know how anyone can know they are saved. Just the very fact that a professing Christian could ask this kind of question really casts a lot of questions about that person's spiritual health! How could anyone who is in a genuine, saving relationship with our Creator and Redeemer ever ask that kind of question. I have to think that anyone who ask this kind of question doesn't know if they're saved!

 

[Rufus]

God only loves some people, why are some lovable and not others?

Do you have that love/success criteria yet?

Surely Jesus would have explained why He only loves the "selected" and not others and why they are selected for salvation?

Well...for starters God's love is conditional! So...there's that...