Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[reneweddaybyday]

Once in our resurrection bodies, this is all going to seem so elementary...

1 Corinthians 13:11-12 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

BillyBob did not say anything about anyone being better

Your whole conclusion is based on the assumption that He chooses some because they are better in some way.

*underline mine
.

 

[sawdust]

God the Son was Deity (Spirit), soul, and body.

please note, I also indicated in Post 7751:

"So when God breathed into Adam the breath of lives (plural), God enlivened Adam's spirit as well as Adam's soul."
which was not addressed in your response.

To me, the fact that God breathed into Adam the breath of lives (plural) indicates that God breathed life into the soul (nephesh) of Adam (something God did not do in the living creatures of Day 5) and which set the nephesh in Adam apart from all other creatures ... and God also breathed into the spirit of Adam (the image of God in which Adam was created).

I most likely didn't make it clear, the plural lives I see God breathing into Adam's body are soul and spirit, human life (created in Gen.1:27) and spiritual life. Based on what you are saying here it sounds to me like you see Adam's body with a soul and spirit and the breath of lives God is breathing into him simply gives life to each. I see soul and spirit as life in itself, one created by God (soul) the other given by God of His own being (spirit).

Maybe you could clarify this point for me please?

God creates a new heart within each born again one at the time he or she believes the gospel of Christ. New life ... something that did not exist prior to you (or I) coming to faith in Christ ... is created within the believer.

I'm going to have to go back to what I originally said as I still don't see what this has to do with what I said. I think you may have misunderstood what I meant or maybe I wasn't very clear.

The cost of what we have within is not what I am talking about. I'm talking about new life ... life that did not exist prior to you or I believing comes into existence the moment we believed.

Yes I get that, but we already had physical life and we had human life, we lacked spiritual life. That's the life we gain at regeneration and if memory serves me correctly that's what I was talking about when you responded with the new creation. The new life/creation you are speaking of I don't see happening until the resurrection. We have it positionally and are working it out this side of the resurrection but ultimately it will be complete on The Day.

However, under Old Covenant, I do not believe it was available to be born again in the same manner we are under New Covenant (after Day of Pentecost).

I agree OC saints were not given what we have from Pentecost onwards but Jesus told Nicodemus he must be born again. That was a command under the OC. He expected Nicodemus to understand without NC teaching, without the Pentecost event.

 

[BillyBob]

Is it God's good pleasure for you to tell us he chooses us with a coin toss?
That there is no real reason to choose us?

Heads - I save him.
Tails - I condemn him?

Is that what you are telling us?

Eph 1:5
He has only mentioned that it is done according to His good pleasure. And, He has not revealed, at least to me, what that entails. However, it probably means that He [can and will] do as He pleases! Are you here to tell Him otherwise?

 

[Psalm1]

You make the error that many do by conflating having a choice with having free will. Nor does having a human will mean that it is free, because it is constrained by far too many factors to be considered truly free, Especially as a lover of darkness who suppresses the truth in unrighteousness because he is taken captive to the will of the devil. The will of the natural man is inherently in opposition to God and hostile to Him.

Over and over the relationship Between God and his saints is compared to the marriage of the bride and the groom. If you carry that free will VS election concept over into the natural earthly marriage, neither the bride or the groom had anything to do with the marriage, the success of it, or possible separation.

 

[BillyBob]

*underline mine
.

only believers are elected

 

[cv5]

You make the error that many do by conflating having a choice with having free will. Nor does having a human will mean that it is free, because it is constrained by far too many factors to be considered truly free, Especially as a lover of darkness who suppresses the truth in unrighteousness because he is taken captive to the will of the devil. The will of the natural man is inherently in opposition to God and hostile to Him.

Especially as a lover of darkness who suppresses the truth in unrighteousness because he is taken captive to the will of the devil. The will of the natural man is inherently in opposition to God and hostile to Him.

You know, Calvinism just seems so.......toxic. And accusatory.
What must it be like to have a mind and heart super-saturated with such thoughts 24/7?
Must be a pretty horrible place to be.

 

[cv5]

Jesus was challenged by and struggled to surrender His human will to the will of the Father so greatly that He sweat blood in the Garden of Gethsemane before His crucifixion... And yet here we have so many thinking that the natural man is as great as Jesus to be able to lay down their human will, some say with no help from God at all. Their error is in ascribing to the natural man qualities and abilities only the spiritually alive man possesses.

Jesus was challenged by and struggled to surrender His human will to the will of the Father so greatly that He sweat blood in the Garden of Gethsemane before His crucifixion

Nonsense. Jesus NEVER struggled to do the will of the Father, as their wills are one and the same.
There exists ZERO conflict of wills motivation or intent within the Trinity.

Furthermore, your assessment of what exactly is going on there in the garden is hopelessly wrong. Like cluelessly wrong.

 

[cv5]

Over and over the relationship Between God and his saints is compared to the marriage of the bride and the groom. If you carry that free will VS election concept over into the natural earthly marriage, neither the bride or the groom had anything to do with the marriage, the success of it, or possible separation.

Certainly. And just look at the wife of Jehovah Israel.

It was a rocky relationship to say the least.
Lots of tragically wrong FREE WILL choices being made on the part of the wife that's for sure.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

only believers are elected

that wasn't my point ... I merely pointed out that you said something Magenta said you didn't say ...
.

 

[HeIsHere]

Jesus was challenged by and struggled to surrender His human will to the will of the Father so greatly that He sweat blood in the Garden of Gethsemane before His crucifixion

Nonsense. Jesus NEVER struggled to do the will of the Father, as their wills are one and the same.
There exists ZERO conflict of wills motivation or intent within the Trinity.

Furthermore, your assessment of what exactly is going on there in the garden is hopelessly wrong. Like cluelessly wrong.

Amazing what and how something can be twisted to support a faulty doctrine.

 

[Magenta]

2 Peter 3 v 15-16 ~ Consider also that our Lord’s patience brings salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom God gave him. He writes this way in all his letters, speaking in them about such matters. Some parts of his letters are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

 

[Magenta]

Over and over the relationship Between God and his saints is compared to the marriage of the bride and
the groom. If you carry that free will VS election concept over into the natural earthly marriage, neither
the bride or the groom had anything to do with the marriage, the success of it, or possible separation.

How do you figure God does not have anything to do with His desire to be united with those who belong to Him?

Seems an awfully odd thing to say. Bizarre, actually. And what do you mean by possible separation?

Are you one of those who teaches that salvation can be lost?

 

[HeIsHere]

Especially as a lover of darkness who suppresses the truth in unrighteousness because he is taken captive to the will of the devil. The will of the natural man is inherently in opposition to God and hostile to Him.

You know, Calvinism just seems so.......toxic. And accusatory.
What must it be like to have a mind and heart super-saturated with such thoughts 24/7?
Must be a pretty horrible place to be.

It is. Full stop.

 

[Magenta]

Over and over the relationship Between God and his saints is compared to the marriage of the bride and
the groom. If you carry that free will VS election concept over into the natural earthly marriage, neither
the bride or the groom had anything to do with the marriage, the success of it, or possible separation.

"Free will" in the Bible? ~ Freedom is something believers are called to (Galatians 5 verse 13). We need Jesus to “set us free” (Galatians 5 verse 1). If Jesus has not freed us from the bondage of sin, then we are still slaves to sin (Romans 6 verses 6-7). Freedom is found in the presence of the Spirit (2 Corinthians 3 verse 17). Only Jesus can give us true freedom (John 8 verse 36). Only through His lovingkindness can we truly make choices unfettered by a nature that is inherently hostile toward God.

 

[lrs68]

Do the will of God?

2 Peter 3:18

​

But be continuously growing in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. ​

To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.​

Continuously growing?

We can only do that if we have humbled ourselves and found one of the few who can actually teach sound doctrine.
Only a few, out of the many today who profess to teach, can actually teach on the level required to reach maturity in Christ.

That is why Jesus said... "Only a few find it."
Here is why only a few will find the Life Abundantly that Jesus came to give us!

For the time will come when they will not put up with/tolerate sound doctrine. ​

Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number ​

of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 2 Timothy 4:3​

​

we are there right now.​

Matthew 7 explains about workers of Iniquity that Jesus doesn't know even though they claim to have performed miracles and cast out demons in Jesus name. Ultimately Jesus explains they didn't do the WILL OF THE FATHER.

So don't think it unusual should I obey Jesus on this matter.

 

[lrs68]

Yes, but we don't do that in the same capacity with each other. God called each of us to fulfill His purpose in difference capacities.

Actually should you be standing in line at a store and begin sharing the Gospel or to friends and neighbors and whomever you are fulfilling the Great Commission because God will do the rest.

 

[lrs68]

Because many things cannot be undone by finite, fallible humans. Believe it or not, we're not independent, autonomous creatures of God. In fact, God created ALL life -- (yeah...I mean "all" life w/o exception) to depend, rely upon and trust him Him for sustenance.

But the [(hinge pivot)] on this issue is that God Himself is making the first move and that opens the door to creation making a decision like we read in Romans 1, 1st Corinthians, Ephesians.

 

[Magenta]

Eph 1:5
He has only mentioned that it is done according to His good pleasure. And, He has not revealed, at least to me, what
that entails. However, it probably means that He [can and will] do as He pleases! Are you here to tell Him otherwise?

It is truly terrible how easily and frequently the free will crowd blasphemes God.

 

[cv5]

Actually should you be standing in line at a store and begin sharing the Gospel or to friends and neighbors and whomever you are fulfilling the Great Commission because God will do the rest.

Right.

But then again, how could the super-determinists dare tell them that with God, all things salvific are impossible?