Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Pilgrimshope]

I have answered it! You just didn't like the answer, which again was:

God who is the First Mover (Primary Cause) and sinners themselves as Efficient [secondary] Causes. Does Rom 9 teach that God will have mercy and compassion on each and every person on the planet w/o exception? Did Jesus teach that he will give life to all men w/o exception? Or that He would reveal the Father to all men w/o exception? Or did Jesus pray for all men w/o exception in his High Priestly prayer in Jn 17?

No one can be saved unless God decrees it; yet, at the same time sinners know they are sinners and condemn themselves by not seeking God and his forgiveness.

A great example of this paradoxical truth can be seen with Judas. Judas' role in Jesus' death was decreed by God in eternity and was predicted in the OT; and Judas was even possessed by Satan. But did Judas blame God or the devil for his heinous sin? No! He most certainly did not! He owned his own sin. He knew he was a guilty sinner (Mat 27:4), even though God's hand was in everything Judas did (Act 4:27-28), which in turn proves that man's ways are NOT in himself (Prov 16:1, 9, 33; 19:21; 20:24; 21:1; Isa 46:10; Jer 10:23; Dan 5:23; Rom 9:14-18) -- and this truth also finds its expression in Natural Revelation per my recent posts to this effect.

Another excellent but contrasting example is the salvation of Eve in the Garden. Where would Eve have been if it hadn't been for God's gracious decree in Gen 3:15?

“God who is the First Mover “

right this is his move for all humanity

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

his move is the gospel and great commission

 

[Blain]

Right. And God is constantly commanding and exhorting saved Christians to keep their "walk" worthy.

You know I am in a discussion on this very subject on another forum and one opposing view being discussed is on if baptism can save you one such person calls themselves saved because they were baptized as a baby but when I asked them where repentance comes from being baptized as a baby they did a 180 and then said it is having life in church that keeps you saved

So here is my issue if baptism did anything for you in regards to being saved then why would Jesus have to die for our sins? is it his blood that saves us or baptism?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I have answered it! You just didn't like the answer, which again was:

God who is the First Mover (Primary Cause) and sinners themselves as Efficient [secondary] Causes. Does Rom 9 teach that God will have mercy and compassion on each and every person on the planet w/o exception? Did Jesus teach that he will give life to all men w/o exception? Or that He would reveal the Father to all men w/o exception? Or did Jesus pray for all men w/o exception in his High Priestly prayer in Jn 17?

No one can be saved unless God decrees it; yet, at the same time sinners know they are sinners and condemn themselves by not seeking God and his forgiveness.

A great example of this paradoxical truth can be seen with Judas. Judas' role in Jesus' death was decreed by God in eternity and was predicted in the OT; and Judas was even possessed by Satan. But did Judas blame God or the devil for his heinous sin? No! He most certainly did not! He owned his own sin. He knew he was a guilty sinner (Mat 27:4), even though God's hand was in everything Judas did (Act 4:27-28), which in turn proves that man's ways are NOT in himself (Prov 16:1, 9, 33; 19:21; 20:24; 21:1; Isa 46:10; Jer 10:23; Dan 5:23; Rom 9:14-18) -- and this truth also finds its expression in Natural Revelation per my recent posts to this effect.

Another excellent but contrasting example is the salvation of Eve in the Garden. Where would Eve have been if it hadn't been for God's gracious decree in Gen 3:15?

“No one can be saved unless God decrees it; yet, at the same time sinners know they are sinners and condemn themselves by not seeking God and his forgiveness.”

He has decreed it preach the gospel whoever believes shall be saved

So basically you are saying if someone’s saved it’s all god bit if someone is lost it’s all them ?

 

[HeIsHere]

IMO fallen man retains the faculties to believe / to actively receive, and God provides in grace and power in His Word and by His Spirit all that is necessary for fallen man to choose to believe or reject God. Simply put anyway.

I agree with this statement and I also believe this is the correct orthodox position and "Total Inability" is built on
>>>>>> out of context non-exegeted verses AND is completely outside of traditional evangelical thought.

I tend to go with a little leaven leavens the whole loaf and I see "saving faith being a gift" the start of the little leaven.

 

[brightfame52]

So do you believe that one cannot repent unless God gives them repentance? why then does he tell us to repent?

Right one cannot repent unless God gives them repentance. When God tells someone to repent whom He has given repentance, it causes them to repent.

 

[brightfame52]

Plenty of cemeteries then where you can go and preach!
Enjoy!

See ya at the Judgment, enjoy

 

[Rufus]

https://christianchat.com/threads/can-we-really-exercise-free-will.218061/post-5550525

https://christianchat.com/threads/can-we-really-exercise-free-will.218061/post-5550675

Useless, irrelevant links.

 

[brightfame52]

They can HEAR because they find what they hear as foolishness.

You cannot think something is foolishness [(unless)] you can hear it.

Once again you have proven you know nothing and are just a robot to your false idealism.

Its foolishness to them because they are lost. Its only profitable to the saved. When God sends the Gospel to the lost, its for their greater condemnation, not to be good news of their salvation.

 

[studier]

Well there is some emotional element in "metanoia" since in that culture it was "mind will and emotions" the very seat of man as it is often described, but feeling sorrow for ones' sins is not what saves.

As @Genez just posted, there is a lot of doctrine from theology (not "theology" in a criticizing sense) included in metanoia.

The word itself has a very simple meaning that is not infused with all the theology.

"Repent" itself is an infused word that is not from old Greek. Remember, we're reading translations much of which are coming from old Latin and thus from Church history:

repent(v.) (resource linked)​

c. 1300, repenten, "be grieved over one's past and seek forgiveness; feel such regret for sins, crimes, or omissions as produces amendment of life," from Old French repentir (11c.), from re-, here perhaps used as an intensive prefix, "very much" (see re-), + Vulgar Latin *penitire "to regret," from Latin poenitire "make sorry," from poena (see penal).​

The distinction between regret (q.v.) and repent is made in many modern languages, but is absent in older periods. To repent is to regret so deeply as to change the mind or course of conduct in consequence and develop new mental and spiritual habits. Also from c. 1300 in Middle English and after in an impersonal reflexive sense, especially as (it) repenteth (me, him, etc.).​

​

I don't think we necessarily need to infuse metanoia with all the grief and sorrow. Not that it's absolutely wrong, but metanoia is primarily about the mind, the thinking, and the emotions are a side discussion and not necessary for every person.

What is directly attached to metanoeō is turning to God from whatever needs to be turned from. What is also directly attached is belief. If we're going to discuss emotions, it's downstream from there.

 

[Rufus]

You like bossing around ignorant people who can be intimidated by your closed minded, brutish, approach?

With me?
You better look elsewhere!

Thanks for at least confessing your own ignorance...even though you don't like the light of truth to shine on your posts.

 

[Genez]

Thanks for clarifying I’d never heard either term in 72 years lol

“it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:44‬ ‭

“I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:50‬ ‭NIV‬‬

Pilgrim....

Please give this a hearing?

https://www.rbthieme.org/index.html#tabs-3


Best teaching I ever heard and devoured my plate.

Hal Lindsay and Chuck Swindoll both sat and grew spiritually in his congregation.
Billy Graham once asked him to private tutor him, but could not oblige because of his very busy schedule.

This is how much you will have to pay to receive consistent excellent Bible teachings.

R. B. Thieme, Jr., Bible Ministries is a grace ministry and operates entirely on voluntary contributions.
There is no price list for any of our material. No money is requested. When gratitude for the Word of God
motivates a believer to give, he has the privilege of contributing to the dissemination of Bible doctrine.​

And, here is the menu to choose from.

God provides freely for those who love His Word!
https://www.rbthieme.org/PDF/LessonListingForWeb2014.pdf

You can just give the ministry a call and set things up if you wish, or simply order online.


grace and peace!

 

[Blain]

Right one cannot repent unless God gives them repentance. When God tells someone to repent whom He has given repentance, it causes them to repent.

That doesn't add up though, because if repentance only comes by the mouth of God then one cannot be held accountable on judgement day becausue if one who does not repent simply could not do so because it was not given to them by God then how could they be held accountable?

I have seen that faith is a gift from God I have not however seen repentance as being a gift rather as a commandment and one who does not repent? well we have seen how God deals with such people

 

[brightfame52]

Saving grace can put him on life support and bring him to, so he can hear what is needed to be understood!

An unbeliever can know several things without being made spiritual.

He knows good and evil.
By a certain time in his life he will painfully know that he sins.

He knows he has lied at some time.
He also knows it was sinful to mug that old lady a few years ago on the street.

It all depends on one's culture.
When presented the Gospel, when ready... all people have come to a point in their life that they know they are a sinner.

The rest of the Gospel covers just enough that can be understood to make the right decision!

If I having been a Jew, who never stepped into a church to hear Bible teachings, understood enough to be saved?
Well? What do you want?
The Gospel is a SIMPLE message!
Not some deep spiritual teaching requiring regeneration to grasp it on a spiritual level.

When it talks about the 'natural man can not receive the things of the Spirit'?
That is in reference to people sitting in Church and hearing Bible lessons pertaining to theology to be taught to believers.

We goof up all the time.

Realizing we have, is what causes us to grow spiritually!

See ya later...
I'm going to go get drunk.

False saving grace saved, makes alive from the dead Eph 2:5

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

That which you teach about grace is absolute untrue and garbage.

 

[brightfame52]

Do you have to be spiritual to know you are a sinner?
Do you have to be spiritual to understand that God claims Jesus died for your sins?

Yes, before spiritual life, man is spiritually dead to God but doesnt know it. Its not until man is made alive does he realize he was dead.

 

[Genez]

FTFY!

At least you are reading my posts!

DNSITWAT!

 

[Genez]

False saving grace saved, makes alive from the dead Eph 2:5

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

That which you teach about grace is absolute untrue and garbage.

How did God make you -dead man- to be alive?

 

[brightfame52]

That doesn't add up though, because if repentance only comes by the mouth of God then one cannot be held accountable on judgement day becausue if one who does not repent simply could not do so because it was not given to them by God then how could they be held accountable?

I have seen that faith is a gift from God I have not however seen repentance as being a gift rather as a commandment and one who does not repent? well we have seen how God deals with such people

It doesnt add up to you, you asked me the question, not yourself

 

[Pilgrimshope]

You know I am in a discussion on this very subject on another forum and one opposing view being discussed is on if baptism can save you one such person calls themselves saved because they were baptized as a baby but when I asked them where repentance comes from being baptized as a baby they did a 180 and then said it is having life in church that keeps you saved

So here is my issue if baptism did anything for you in regards to being saved then why would Jesus have to die for our sins? is it his blood that saves us or baptism?

Baptism is doctrine based on Jesus dying for our sins

We believe this

“For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; and that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And then baptism is based on that belief The only reason to get baptized in Jesus name for remission of sins is because you believe he died for your sins and rose again .

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: ( his death for our sins ) that like as Christ was raised up from the dead ( his resurrection ) by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, ( for our sins ) we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: ( for our justification )

knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, ( died with him in baptism ) that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin,( his death that baptism includes us in )
but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.” ( His resurrection )
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-7, 11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

baptism is only for those who hear and believe jesus died for thier sins and rose again . It isn’t anything if you remove the faith it’s witnessing which a lot of people do

baptsm itself is nothing what god says about it in scriptire is what makes it important it’s only for people who believe the gospel

 

[NightTwister]

Explain "dead" and all of what you think is in Paul's thinking when he wrote this.

You don't have a dictionary? There are several online.

 

[Genez]

Thanks for at least confessing your own ignorance...even though you don't like the light of truth to shine on your posts.

You're allowed to be resentful at a certain stage of maturity in Christ.
It's expected...

grace and peace ........