Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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If they are alive spiritually then they have first responded positively to the Gospel message as the personal requirement/condition set by God.
False and backwards. A person cant spiritually hear the Gospel when spiritually dead, duh
 
I think though it does not really capture the meaning of "metanoia" since in English there is no direct word for word translation.

I see metanoeō as being pretty simple to translate, maybe not with one word, but "repent" seems to be filled with a view from theology infusing metanoeō with religious views of feeling sorrowful.
 
True repentance is a change of mind set because one can ask for it yes but unless there is a change in heart it is just words. a person who has surrendered themselves is one who has true repentance I can ask for forgiveness but I would not have done so without a change in my heart
Jesus as Saviour and Prince gives repentance to His People along with forgiveness' of sins. Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Salvation repentance finds its source from Christ, its not in man
 
Also did god choose israel to be his people at any point ? And did they have any choice in the outcome?
God did choose Israel to be His people.

Choice is an interesting topic. We all have the ability to choose within boundaries. Some are set by nature, and some by God Himself through the choices He has made and the circumstances He brings about. So our choices aren't free of restrictions from God or our nature.

A good example is Jonah. He chose not to obey God initially. God didn't change His plan. He simply worked through the choices Jonah made to bring Him to do as He willed. All along, Jonah made choices. All along, God was bringing His will to pass. The invisible hand of God was always present to bring about His intentions.

God makes all things work for good to those who are the called. Even as Jonah opposed the will of God, God was using that for good. Read the story afresh. God used the casting of Jonah into the sea to bring salvation to those on the boat.

There are many examples in the Bible with similar outcomes wherein the choices of men, even what we would consider poor choices, end up bringing about the will of God. Probably the most noteworthy is the death of Christ. Acts 2:23 which states the cross was the determined counsel of God performed by the choices of wicked men.

There is much more to say on the subject, but this sums it up in a nutshell.
 
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I understand repentance as accepting the Holy Spirit's conviction, and the Holy Spirit convicts the world of sin and righteousness and judgment (John 16:8). Is this another instance where the world applies only to the elect?
Please read post 7,245. If this doesn't answer your question, please let me know.
 
Jesus as Saviour and Prince gives repentance to His People along with forgiveness' of sins. Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Salvation repentance finds its source from Christ, its not in man
So do you believe that one cannot repent unless God gives them repentance? why then does he tell us to repent?
 
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This is an interesting one.

The grammar definitely favors the gift being the whole statement "saved by grace through faith" but this in itself does not preclude faith being a gift if this is clear in other Scriptures.

So, it becomes a bigger discussion than Eph2:8, which is why I like seeing what was being discussed a bit ago re: the various ways to translate pistis and pisteuō and just what is involved in Faith.

It's also why I was watching to see if the discussion would go into the fall and Dichotomy vs. Trichotomy in regard to the human spirit, what faculties fallen man has and doesn't have, and what constructs like "spiritual death" even mean and then if it has been pushed too far by some.

If Paul wanted to refer to pistis (“faith”), he could have written the feminine haute, instead of the neuter touto, and his meaning would have been clear.
Given the entirety of scripture where Abraham was justified by faith it really seems illogical that God gives what He requires.

As well,
Romans 6:23

For the payoff of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

So while we can dig down to the grammar, and there may be some room for debate, it still has to align with the entire Gospel message.

The gift in Eph. 4:8 is salvation. Salvation (being saved), is our justification, righteousness and eternal life gifted to us by God by His grace, on account of our faith.
 
I see metanoeō as being pretty simple to translate, maybe not with one word, but "repent" seems to be filled with a view from theology infusing metanoeō with religious views of feeling sorrowful.

Well there is some emotional element in "metanoia" since in that culture it was "mind will and emotions" the very seat of man as it is often described, but feeling sorrow for ones' sins is not what saves.
 
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To me repentance is asking for forgiveness of your sins.

Well then?

Can God ask for forgiveness of his sins?

And the Lord repented that He had made man on the earth,
and it grieved Him in His heart.


Genesis 6:6​

God changed His mind.

That's where sloppy translating gets one in trouble and stuck in the mud.

You can change your mind about what you think about a certain sin. (its ok... everybody does it)
But we are still stuck in the same body, requiring the Holy Spirit to keep us free from sinning.

The following is compliments of Google AI -
(which has not been corrupted yet!) ;)


Metanoia (μετάνοια), a Greek word, can be broadly understood as a "change of mind" or "change in thinking"
However, its meaning goes deeper than a simple change of opinion and encompasses a more profound transformation of one's entire being. It's about a fundamental transformation of outlook, a reorientation, and a new way of approaching life

Key aspects of metanoia

  • Change of Mind and Heart: It is a deep inner shift that encompasses both intellectual and emotional aspects.
  • Transformation and Reorientation: It goes beyond merely regret for past actions and embraces a complete transformation of one's inner being and outward behavior.
  • Continuous Process: It is not a one-time event, but rather an ongoing process of growth, learning, and renewal.
Therefore, while "change of mind" captures a part of the meaning, metanoia signifies a much more profound and holistic transformation affecting a person's thoughts, emotions, and way of life
 
If Paul wanted to refer to pistis (“faith”), he could have written the feminine haute, instead of the neuter touto, and his meaning would have been clear.
Given the entirety of scripture where Abraham was justified by faith it really seems illogical that God gives what He requires.

As well,
Romans 6:23

For the payoff of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

So while we can dig down to the grammar, and there may be some room for debate, it still has to align with the entire Gospel message.

The gift in Eph. 4:8 is salvation. Salvation (being saved), is our justification, righteousness and eternal life gifted to us by God by His grace, on account of our faith.

Agree.

But in fairness we have to have Scriptural answers for every Scripture that may seem to infer that Faith is a gift.

Also, IMO there is a discussion to be had in this sense:

Premise 1: God's Gospel of Jesus Christ is a gift from God.
Premise 2: Belief in the Gospel is necessary to receive the Gospel.
Conclusion: Therefore, belief in the Gospel is also a gift from God.​

There are more ways to word and approach this, but hopefully you'll get the gist.

IMO fallen man retains the faculties to believe / to actively receive, and God provides in grace and power in His Word and by His Spirit all that is necessary for fallen man to choose to believe or reject God. Simply put anyway.
 
To be fair to @Cameron143 I'm reposting this admission.

It is clear what much of his views are and where they come from. From my readings I've seen at least 3 of the 5 flower letters in his content.

cc: @HeIsHere @cv5 @Pilgrimshope and whoever may be interested.
A thorough word study of the term "peripateō" makes the fact of human FREE WILL and volition perfectly clear.
And aligns in perfect accord with every OT exhortation there ever was.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g4043/kjv/tr/0-1/
 
False and backwards. A person cant spiritually hear the Gospel when spiritually dead, duh
They can HEAR because they find what they hear as foolishness.

You cannot think something is foolishness [(unless)] you can hear it.

Once again you have proven you know nothing and are just a robot to your false idealism.
 
So do you believe that one cannot repent unless God gives them repentance? why then does he tell us to repent?
Right. And God is constantly commanding and exhorting saved Christians to keep their "walk" worthy.
 
False and backwards. A person cant spiritually hear the Gospel when spiritually dead, duh
Saving grace can put him on life support and bring him to, so he can hear what is needed to be understood!

An unbeliever can know several things without being made spiritual.

He knows good and evil.
By a certain time in his life he will painfully know that he sins.

He knows he has lied at some time.
He also knows it was sinful to mug that old lady a few years ago on the street.

It all depends on one's culture.
When presented the Gospel, when ready... all people have come to a point in their life that they know they are a sinner.

The rest of the Gospel covers just enough that can be understood to make the right decision!

If I having been a Jew, who never stepped into a church to hear Bible teachings, understood enough to be saved?
Well? What do you want?
The Gospel is a SIMPLE message!
Not some deep spiritual teaching requiring regeneration to grasp it on a spiritual level.

When it talks about the 'natural man can not receive the things of the Spirit'?
That is in reference to people sitting in Church and hearing Bible lessons pertaining to theology to be taught to believers.

We goof up all the time.

Realizing we have, is what causes us to grow spiritually!

See ya later...
I'm going to go get drunk.
 
You can’t answer a simple question ?

whos responsible if someone doesn’t believe and is damned ?

I have answered it! You just didn't like the answer, which again was:

God who is the First Mover (Primary Cause) and sinners themselves as Efficient [secondary] Causes. Does Rom 9 teach that God will have mercy and compassion on each and every person on the planet w/o exception? Did Jesus teach that he will give life to all men w/o exception? Or that He would reveal the Father to all men w/o exception? Or did Jesus pray for all men w/o exception in his High Priestly prayer in Jn 17?

No one can be saved unless God decrees it; yet, at the same time sinners know they are sinners and condemn themselves by not seeking God and his forgiveness.

A great example of this paradoxical truth can be seen with Judas. Judas' role in Jesus' death was decreed by God in eternity and was predicted in the OT; and Judas was even possessed by Satan. But did Judas blame God or the devil for his heinous sin? No! He most certainly did not! He owned his own sin. He knew he was a guilty sinner (Mat 27:4), even though God's hand was in everything Judas did (Act 4:27-28), which in turn proves that man's ways are NOT in himself (Prov 16:1, 9, 33; 19:21; 20:24; 21:1; Isa 46:10; Jer 10:23; Dan 5:23; Rom 9:14-18) -- and this truth also finds its expression in Natural Revelation per my recent posts to this effect.

Another excellent but contrasting example is the salvation of Eve in the Garden. Where would Eve have been if it hadn't been for God's gracious decree in Gen 3:15?
 
False and backwards. A person cant spiritually hear the Gospel when spiritually dead, duh

Do you have to be spiritual to know you are a sinner?
Do you have to be spiritual to understand that God claims Jesus died for your sins?
 
Amen!

The explanation in your post is how I see it as well, and scriptural of course ;)..... I drew out this particular statement because I think it is so very important and true.

If a Christian commits adultery or tells a lie or steals something is it a sin or a bad work ?
 
Saving grace can put him on life support and bring him to, so he can hear what is needed to be understood!

An unbeliever can know several things without being made spiritual.

He knows good and evil.
By a certain time in his life he will painfully know that he sins.

He knows he has lied at some time.
He also knows it was sinful to mug that old lady a few years ago on the street.

It all depends on one's culture.
When presented the Gospel, when ready... all people have come to a point in their life that they know they are a sinner.

The rest of the Gospel covers just enough that can be understood to make the right decision!

If I having been a Jew, who never stepped into a church to hear Bible teachings, understood enough to be saved?
Well? What do you want?
The Gospel is a SIMPLE message!
Not some deep spiritual teaching requiring regeneration to grasp it on a spiritual level.

When it talks about the 'natural man can not receive the things of the Spirit'?
That is in reference to people sitting in Church and hearing Bible lessons pertaining to theology to be taught to believers.

We goof up all the time.

Realizing we have, is what causes us to grow spiritually!

See ya later...
I'm going to go get [sober].

FTFY!