They promote/postulate/demand man's inability. But what they REALLY mean is GODS inability!
Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
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Because as you rightly pointed out it is not God's will to save everyone. It is His desire to save all but it is His will that each should choose to love Him from our own free will. This is what His grace does in that it controls the desires of the flesh when the truth is presented so one can freely choose for themself without compulsion or manipulation just as Adam and Christ chose to accept/reject of their own will. Adam condemned us, not God. God set us free by removing the barrier that prevented us being able to come and worship with the Cross. He then supplies the grace needed for us to see the truth and respond freely from our own soul.
But it did have the positive effect God willed by freeing the person who is presented with the Gospel. The problem is you think it is meant to save the person in order for them to believe so the Gospel can save them. You're theology is illogical. How many times do you want God to save you from death?
I dare say your misunderstanding of what I think would lead you to think I think God's grace is not a miraculous power but I know it is. It raises men from death. You simply want it to do what you want it to do and not what God want's His grace to do.
His grace to raise a person to life comes after the Gospel is accepted, that is the difference between you and me. You think a man has to be saved from death and transformed before he can believe and be saved. I think a man can be made free enough to accept or reject the Gospel of his own volition. God does the rest and He always initiates.
You do that. Hopefully the Lord will be gracious to you so you can fully comprehend what the Cross did and didn't achieve.
Their gospel message of the pre-birth lottery is a false gospel.
I really do not understand why all the debate quite honestly.
And consider: what if a person SAYS that they believe in the true gospel of belief in Christ but ACTUALLY does NOT believe it?
Would that be bad?
Nonsense.
[Luk 10:30, 33-34 KJV] 30 And Jesus answering said, A certain [man] went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded [him], and departed, leaving [him] half dead. ...
33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion [on him],
34 And went to [him], and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
Romans 7 v 14, John 8 v 34, Jeremiah 13 v 23, Romans 3 v 10 ~ We know that the law is spiritual; but
I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin.” Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? Neither are you able to do good - you who are accustomed to doing evil. There is no one righteous, not even one.
[QUOTE="sawdust, post: 5550140, member: 329358"]Because as you rightly pointed out it is not God's will to save everyone. It is His desire to save all but it is His will that each should choose to love Him from our own free will. This is what His grace does in that it controls the desires of the flesh when the truth is presented so one can freely choose for themself without compulsion or manipulation just as Adam and Christ chose to accept/reject of their own will. Adam condemned us, not God. God set us free by removing the barrier that prevented us being able to come and worship with the Cross. He then supplies the grace needed for us to see the truth and respond freely from our own soul. [/quote]
So, according to what you wrote above, it's God's will to become a possible savior of men -- sort of like how He made the ancient Israelites' freedom from bondage to Pharaoh possible for them, right?
And since you now admit that it's not God's [decretive] will to save everyone on the planet, then how could it have been His will to send his Son into the world to die for everyone on the planet that He never intended in eternity to save?
So, according to what you wrote above, it's God's will to become a possible savior of men -- sort of like how He made the ancient Israelites' freedom from bondage to Pharaoh possible for them, right?
And since you now admit that it's not God's [decretive] will to save everyone on the planet, then how could it have been His will to send his Son into the world to die for everyone on the planet that He never intended in eternity to save?
You missed my point. Jesus used parables to teach. They were earthly stories about spiritual truth. He used the things people experienced in their daily lives to teach them about God. This is so because God created the physical world to reflect spiritual reality...to point men towards Him. In Acts 17:26-27 tells us God has even worked out the circumstances of our lives to lead us to Him.
God is filling the earth with the knowledge of His glory...Habakkuk 2:14. The more God is known, the more He is glorified. Before sin, this was fully evident to man. After sin, man needs to be restored in his spirit or soul to again experience this in its fulness.
So, according to what you wrote above, it's God's will to become a possible savior of men -- sort of like how He made the ancient Israelites' freedom from bondage to Pharaoh possible for them, right?
And since you now admit that it's not God's [decretive] will to save everyone on the planet, then how could it have been His will to send his Son into the world to die for everyone on the planet that He never intended in eternity to save?[/QUOTE]So @Rufus , you would like me to believe your gospel of pre-birth lottery and God's inability to save all those that call on His Name?
No, I don't believe that not for one split second. Sorry fake sorry.
“People can and do seek truth and this is Biblical.”
Amen …
“And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.”
Jeremiah 29:13 KJV
Many people are searching for truth in this world it’s how people find religion
“Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.”
Isaiah 55:6-7 KJV
many people know there’s something more to life than what they see and many are seeking for what that truth beyond them is .
Is that what you meant to say? Anyways, of course he contradicts himself speaking of God's sovereignty and foreknowledge as if it were a by-chance lottery. In his theological understanding, God is an unjust tyrannical monster kidnapping people against their free will if He acts unilaterally. How odd that the love God has for us should be denied in such a way as to consign His saving grace to be on a par with heinous criminal activity. But this is what I have come to expect from people who hold to such an idol. They have a penchant for blaspheming God.
Exactly!!! there is more in the Bible on this topic than the book of Romans.
The Book of Romans has Jew and Gentiles as groups, not individuals, in view.
Not sure what you mean by is this what I meant to say?
It has become the norm for dissenting voices to misrepresent and lie about others here. That doesn't bother me. It's their misrepresentation of God that is really sas.
The book of Roman’s subject matter and structure is a bit different from most of Paul’s epistles if you look for instance a few things stand out . The first being that oauo had never been to rome since his conversion never had been to meet those he was writing to . He expresses his deep desire to meet them in person and to impart his revelations and preaching to them who already were established in the faith.
wheras many of oils epistles such as the Corinthians letters or Ephesians or galtians they are written back to churches Paul had planted with barnabus and Luke and Priscilla and Aquila ect during his missionary journeys
so the wholes structure of the letter is different paul in person for three years for instance at Ephesus preaching the whole counsel of god to then about repentance and obedience good works ect ect they wouldn’t have needed a lot of the things he was teaching in Roman’s letter . Each of the apostes had a different insight into the same matters paul was trying to get his influence and value to them in the Roman’s letter
if you look at Ephesians and Galatians the structure and subject matter is almost identical to the other but Roman’s almost seems like it’s written by another person . Of course we know it’s Paul but my point is , most of his epistles are structured a certain way but Roman’s is totally different structure and subject matter to some extent details wise
paul was really letting it rip in Roman’s it’s such an amazing letter but one of his points was this that refutes many times in Roman’s as in all his letters
“tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
Romans 2:9-11 KJV
seven throughout seems like he’s talking about them in two groups he’s actually explaining why they aren’t seperate anymore why they will be treated the exact same come judgement as all will
“Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:”
Romans 3:29 KJV
All the stuff he’s talking about the law in Roman’s is because the law covenant is Judaism which makes a Jew a Jew
God does hate liars but anyway I did misunderstand what you meant but I do understand now, thank you!