Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[reneweddaybyday]

“Yes agree this has been repeated often to the "inability" clan many times over many years.”

Do you see how if I’m not able …..then I can’t be held responsible ?

exactly ... one has even gone so far as to say "those He died for do not have to believe it, accept itor do anything but continue being ungodly sinners" ... and when I called that lying liar on the carpet, another stepped up to the plate to agree with the lie ... not speaking of Cameron143, Magenta, BillyBob, Rufus or a few others who hold to TULIP, but come on! there is no way a person who does not believe the gospel ... who continues as an ungodly sinner the whole of his or her life ... that is a clear indication that they will be cast into the lake of fire.

honestly, some of the things these "elect" types come up with ... yikes!!!
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

So...you posted a verse that I inquired about, you won't give an explanation of it unless I weigh in on a conversation I'm not following?

If you weren't following it, you would not have chimed in when you did ...

in any event, I'll take that as a "no" ... you choose not to review the section of Scripture I went through with Magenta ... like I said ... sweep mishandling of Scripture under the carpet ... "move along folks ... nuttin' to see here" ...
.

 

[Magenta]

James 1 v 17-18, Numbers 23 v 19c, and from Philippians 3 v 21 ~ Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, with whom there is no change or shifting shadow. He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we would be a kind of firstfruits of His creation. Does He promise and not fulfill? He has the power to subject all things to Himself.

 

[Cameron143]

If you weren't following it, you would not have chimed in when you did ...

in any event, I'll take that as a "no" ... you choose not to review the section of Scripture I went through with Magenta ... like I said ... sweep mishandling of Scripture under the carpet ... "move along folks ... nuttin' to see here" ...
.

I haven't swept anything away. And you write walls of text and I'm reading on a phone. So I generally only read parts of walls of text. Perhaps you are part of the crowd who employs verses and doesn't explain crowd. Nothing to see here. Only read the parts I want.

 

[studier]

@reneweddaybyday

FWIW and not that I think you need it, but IMO you're one of the clearest presenters on these threads - the points you frequently make are very clear. I'll also add that it's beneficial to watch you not getting into the bickering.

Thanks for your work.

 

[Genez]

thought I'd throw this in the mix ...

Titus 2:11-12 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world
.

My Pastor who taught us from the Greek with detail, explained that passage in a way that made me sit up straight and take note.

Titus 2:11-12?
Grace teaches?
What?
How?

When reading that passage I used to think that the grace of God would use a pastor to teach us a list of things we must not do.

Then, one day, my pastor explained.

The word translated "teaching" .... has nothing to do with a classroom setting where a teacher is to be teaching his students information on what not to do. "
Like ... Don't get drunk! Don't fornicate, etc."

It is a different word for teaching.

The word translated 'teaches' speaks of a process of teaching that will allow us to do exactly what displeases God.
And, in doing so?
We will get hurt badly.

When that happens?

Then!

That is how learn to say, "NO!"

That is how the grace of God teaches us to say "NO!" to ungodliness.

 

[studier]

My Pastor who taught us from the Greek with detail, explained that passage in a way that made me sit up straight and take note.

Titus 2:11-12?
Grace teaches?
What?
How?

When reading that passage I used to think that the grace of God would use a pastor to teach us a list of things we must not do.

Then, one day, my pastor explained.

The word translated "teaching" .... has nothing to do with a classroom setting where a teacher is to be teaching his students information on what not to do. "
Like ... Don't get drunk! Don't fornicate, etc."

It is a different word for teaching.

The word translated 'teaches' speaks of a process of teaching that will allow us to do exactly what displeases God.
And, in doing so?
We will get hurt badly.

When that happens?

Then!

That is how learn to say, "NO!"

That is how the grace of God teaches us to say "NO!" to ungodliness.

Good reminder!

It's a word that speaks of child training. It's used in Heb12:6-10 and Rev3:19 and goes back to Scripture like Prov3:12 & Prov5:13. It speaks of strict disciplinary training, even severity with purpose.

RBThieme's students may remember him explaining the word in the sense of one of its meanings - to skin alive with a whip (or something similar) as one of its lexical meanings is to discipline with whipping or scourging Luke23:16 Luke23:22. It also ties back to Deut8:5-6 and a host of others.

 

[Jordon]

Many have probably realised i don't think we can exercise free will, even think it's impossible for us to. Won't explain why i think it's an impossiblility for us yet, think it's useful for some to express why they think it exists first.

I have no doubt we have and can make choices throughout life, however, think our options are far more restricted than most realise. What do you think?

I think a better question would be is do you want to exercise your own free will.

Can you completely trust your own judgment.

Essentially free will is about acting independently without anyone controlling those decisions.

 

[Genez]

Yes the saints are armed against the antichrist however that is not the same as being armed against each other

When entering the Army many soon learn that having arranged "practice fights"... and even practice killing (amongst your own troops) conditions you for gearing your mind for what will be needed for real warfare.

But...

Again I will say it...

When you choose to enter a public forum with all kinds of doctrinal backgrounds?
One must not expect it to be like sitting in a classroom at a local church with one central teaching as a common bond.
I have yet to find a forum where what you desire to see is the norm.

The only exception I saw, was a forum for those who exegete from the original languages.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I haven't swept anything away. And you write walls of text and I'm reading on a phone. So I generally only read parts of walls of text. Perhaps you are part of the crowd who employs verses and doesn't explain crowd. Nothing to see here. Only read the parts I want.

when you are at your computer you can review what was submitted.

Do you have any problems with Post 6730 ... or with my explaining that John 3:27 does not relate to the other verses in Magenta's panel (John 1:12-13 ... or John 6:44 ... or Romans 9:16) ... that John was explaining to his disciples that he had received his ministry from God ... that as the ministry of the Lord Jesus Christ increased, the ministry of John must decrease ... how did that in any way, shape, or form equate to my "pervert[ing] the Word of God" ... or that I am "conceited and understand nothing"?

it'll be interesting to see if you follow up ...
.

 

[Genez]

Good reminder!

It's a word that speaks of child training. It's used in Heb12:6-10 and Rev3:19 and goes back to Scripture like Prov3:12 & Prov5:13. It speaks of strict disciplinary training, even severity with purpose.

RBThieme's students may remember him explaining the word in the sense of one of its meanings - to skin alive with a whip (or something similar) as one of its lexical meanings is to discipline with whipping or scourging Luke23:16 Luke23:22. It also ties back to Deut8:5-6 and a host of others.

That is why God ends up with us finding ourselves having to work out our salvation in fear and trembling!

Its all about love and niceness in the baby stage.

Then God stops pampering us when it comes time to train us for taking up the sword, shield, and bazooka.

 

[Cameron143]

when you are at your computer you can review what was submitted.

Do you have any problems with Post 6730 ... or with my explaining that John 3:27 does not relate to the other verses in Magenta's panel (John 1:12-13 ... or John 6:44 ... or Romans 9:16) ... that John was explaining to his disciples that he had received his ministry from God ... that as the ministry of the Lord Jesus Christ increased, the ministry of John must decrease ... how did that in any way, shape, or form equate to my "pervert[ing] the Word of God" ... or that I am "conceited and understand nothing"?

it'll be interesting to see if you follow up ...
.

I don't ever use a computer. And again, the particulars of your interactions with @Magenta don't interest me either. If you feel offended by what she has written, tell her or cover what you consider her sins to be. While I don't condone some of the ways people express themselves on the forums, it's allowed. We can't control other's actions, but we can control our responses. And while others may be offensive, we are not obligated to take offense. Sometimes we actually have opportunity to put into action what we say we believe. Perhaps this is one of those times for you.

 

[studier]

The only exception I saw, was a forum for those who exegete from the original languages.

Where did you see that!?

 

[studier]

That is why God ends up with us finding ourselves having to work out our salvation in fear and trembling!

Its all about love and niceness in the baby stage.

Then God stops pampering us when it comes time to train us for taking up the sword, shield, and bazooka.

As I recall, the baby stage didn't last too long before some of the discipline began.

 

[Rufus]

You did nothing to deserve this "divine favour" so how is it not "divine favour" when an unbeliever is given the same grace and truth as you? Your idea of grace is onesided. Better hope you're on the right side I guess.

My idea of grace is it is God's power to see His will done, given freely based on His own character of love and integrity not Him doing anyone any favours. When God pours out His grace He reveals his love, power and integrity and sometimes that means people will hate Him for it as they prefer darkness to light, hate to love and do not won't to have any power over their life except their own. When they do that, they have indeed shown why God's will is to lock them away for all eternity so, God's will is done whether one rejects or accepts the Gospel message.

God's will on the Cross was to overcome sin which, Christ completed. Our salvation is an indirect result of the Cross, not it's main goal. This is why scripture says Christ died for the whole world meaning the whole world and not simply part of it as you think. Only Christ was saved on the Cross which is why salvation is to be found only in Him. He now offers that salvation to all who believe and for those who do? It is the absolute power of God to save and we have this proof, not because Christ died on the Cross, but because He rose from the dead. This is why the scripture says our faith is in vain if Christ is not risen, it doesn't say our faith is in vain if Christ didn't die.

So, God's will is that a professing believer like yourself can glibly say that you were saved by His grace, clearly giving Him the credit (I'm assuming). Yet, how is it that you also don't credit God for condemning all the unbelievers since the vast majority of the world doesn't believe in Christ, yet they had the exact same access to his grace as believers did?

When scripture speaks of "favor", which it does nearly 100 times in the OT, it means "gracious kindness". So...we have your version of God being kind, merciful and compassion to believers ostensibly by virtue of his grace (and grace is a virtue!), yet at the same time his grace fell dismally flat with all unbelievers because his gracious kindness didn't have it's intended positive effect.

Also, you will not be able to give so much as one example of God's grace ever falling short of its intended purpose either with any believer or with any physical miracle any prophet or Jesus performed. Whatever you think of God's grace, you certainly don't view it as His miraculous power, correct? How come God's grace is 100% effectual in physical healings, yet maybe only as high as 10% when it comes to healing spiritual maladies?

Bottom line: At the end of the day, the real difference between unbelievers and believers lays between the two groups. It's not God's grace that made the difference, since unbelievers remained stubborn and stiff-necked, for God's grace was never intended to actually heal man's spiritual condition; therefore, believers can only logically boast in the efficacy of their freewill decision since they received the exact same kind of grace as their unbelieving counterparts -- unless of course God gave unbelievers poisoned grace.

As for me, I will, like Paul, continue to boast in the Cross of Christ (Gal 6:14). In fact, it was the only thing the apostle ever boasted in! This is perfectly understandable since Good Friday always precedes Easter Sunday -- if you get my drift.

 

[Rufus]

I think a better question would be is do you want to exercise your own free will.

Can you completely trust your own judgment.

Essentially free will is about acting independently without anyone controlling those decisions.

Great question. And, yes, FWers prefer to trust in their own judgment even though all men are utterly deceitful. Trusting implicitly in God's holy, perfect will doesn't work for FWers! FWers insist that THEY must reach decisions on their own, otherwise they're mere "robots".

 

[Kroogz]

You have it all wrong! I can honestly say that I have never seen a post that claims that you are in total darkness, cannot see, cannot hear, cannot respond to the Gospel...etc
If I ever came across a post which said such things, I would argue as well!

Sweet! Then we have no beef! The Lord Jesus Christ died for all sin And ALL can come to him at their freewill choosing.

Sorry I didn't "see" what you were actually saying.

 

[Genez]

Where did you see that!?

When I was looking up something like this on Google...

"Breath of life is in the plural."

It took me to several different places at the time.

Try it. You might find the FORUM for exegetes!

 

[Genez]

As I recall, the baby stage didn't last too long before some of the discipline began.

Problem is.... too many insist upon remaining babies.
They may even blame Satan for when it is God trying to move them along.

 

[HeIsHere]

Guess @BillyBob was right. I asked for your explanation.

For what reason would you want that?