Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[cv5]

Yeah, great, except you speak of obeying when Scripture says the unregenerated man cannot submit.

Of course you ignore that. You must in order to uphold your vain self-exalting doctrine.

The unregenerated person does not have the mind of the Spirit.

Being "of the world" they cannot even receive the Spirit of Truth. They must be called out first.

Romans 8 v 6-7 The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so.

"except" "cannot".

Yup. Its always the door to salvation getting slammed shut by the gatekeepers.
They are quite obsessive about it.

 

[studier]

Brother man dont get pulled into the calvinist swamp.

If you want to see all the calvinist proof texts answered check out This link

Stay blessed

Just wanted to say I looked through the link including reading much of the debate in the discussion there. I've read a lot of articles over the years and they're all pretty much the same arguments back and forth. This guy does cover a lot of Scripture.

A few of these guys in discussing were getting into some pretty deep philosophy. And one guy was saying he was going to put the whole debate to bed soon and publish it on his site. This was all from 2016 and the site that was to publish the great breakthrough is now defunct.

The battle rages on...

Thanks for the link.

 

[studier]

The word used here has more possible meanings. It can also mean understanding as well as including a responsive action as a result of that understanding. Why didn't you include these definitions?

Why don't you do the work and provide the resource link you want others to take a look at? Why should we trust each other?

 

[cv5]

Brother man dont get pulled into the calvinist swamp.

If you want to see all the calvinist proof texts answered check out This link

Stay blessed

Good content there saved it. Thanks.

 

[studier]

Indeed.

ὑπήκουσαν (hypēkousan) — 1 Occurrence
Romans 10:16 V-AIA-3P
GRK: οὐ πάντες ὑπήκουσαν τῷ εὐαγγελίῳ
NAS: they did not all heed the good news;
KJV: not all obeyed the gospel. For
INT: not all obeyed the gospel

hupakouó: To obey, to listen attentively, to heed
Original Word: ὑπακούω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: hupakouó
Pronunciation: hoop-ak-oo'-o
Phonetic Spelling: (hoop-ak-oo'-o)
KJV: hearken, be obedient to, obey
NASB: obey, obeyed, obedient, answer, became obedient, becoming obedient, heed
Word Origin: [from G5259 (ὑπό - under) and G191 (ἀκούω - heard)]

1. to hear under (as a subordinate), i.e. to listen attentively
2. (by implication) to heed or conform to a command or authority

An intensified form of akouō. There are times in the Text where even akouō seems to trend into obeying.

 

[studier]

Indeed.

ὑπήκουσαν (hypēkousan) — 1 Occurrence
Romans 10:16 V-AIA-3P
GRK: οὐ πάντες ὑπήκουσαν τῷ εὐαγγελίῳ
NAS: they did not all heed the good news;
KJV: not all obeyed the gospel. For
INT: not all obeyed the gospel

hupakouó: To obey, to listen attentively, to heed
Original Word: ὑπακούω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: hupakouó
Pronunciation: hoop-ak-oo'-o
Phonetic Spelling: (hoop-ak-oo'-o)
KJV: hearken, be obedient to, obey
NASB: obey, obeyed, obedient, answer, became obedient, becoming obedient, heed
Word Origin: [from G5259 (ὑπό - under) and G191 (ἀκούω - heard)]

1. to hear under (as a subordinate), i.e. to listen attentively
2. (by implication) to heed or conform to a command or authority

One note. This says, "1 occurrence" A quick search shows it's used 21 times in the NC in various forms. If I add OC LXX it goes up to 72 occurrences.

 

[Magenta]

Why should we trust each other?

Indeed. Your penchant for trash talking someone while condemning them for the same went on
for months and then you claimed you were doing it to keep the other busy and entertained.

Hat, meet studier.

 

[Cameron143]

Why don't you do the work and provide the resource link you want others to take a look at? Why should we trust each other?

I just googled the meaning of the word he used. You guys are "the word" people. I would have thought you had already done so.

 

[Magenta]

An intensified form of akouō. There are times in the Text where even akouō seems to trend into obeying.

It'd be nice if you could at least acknowledge what Scripture says. No? Not surprising.

I'll let others know, regardless:

The unregenerated cannot obey.

The mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so.
Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God. You, however, are controlled not by the
flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the
Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. Romans 8 v 7-9

I realize you guys are wanna-be gymnasts when it comes to verses like these,
but the unregenerated person does not have the indwelling Holy Spirit of God.
They operate by the flesh, which is opposed to the spiritual things of God.

 

[HeIsHere]

Good content there saved it. Thanks.

He and a few others are dismantling all of the Calvinists proof texts one by one, in real time.
He is also on YouTube and X.

 

[HeIsHere]

Brother man dont get pulled into the calvinist swamp.

If you want to see all the calvinist proof texts answered check out This link

Stay blessed

Amen, has happened to a few others on here so sad to watch.

 

[Magenta]

I have advised them several times to never attend a church with "reformed" teachings ever!

I hope your children do not attend a church that teaches all your errors! All the ways and means
you contradict and outright deny what Jesus said. Hopefully they will listen to Jesus, and not you.

 

[Jackson129]

Amen, has happened to a few others on here so sad to watch.

Here's a way of thinking i dont think I've posted yet.

Grace = unmerited gift

For God so loved the world he GAVE his only begotten son. The birth life and even death of Jesus is God's grace. It is the grace that goes out to all the world. The grace that allows mankind to have the first nugget of understanding. Jesus is the son of God he died for our sins and if you repent and believe you will be saved. A 3 year old can understand that let alone any adult of normal thinking. Walk up to 100 random people who are unsaved and ask them have you heard of Jesus and do you know how to be saved and guess what they get the idea. Any further understanding like we discuss in here comes with years of reading and studying. Of course that will be nonsense to non believers. It will also be nonsense to someone who repented 5 minutes ago. Thats like trying to explain calculus to someone who just got out of addition class.

 

[studier]

I just googled the meaning of the word he used. You guys are "the word" people. I would have thought you had already done so.

I have at various times over the years, have a lot of the best lexical tools on my system and access to more on a very comprehensive library system I purchased quite a while back. Google doesn't have access to some of these other than to tell you they exist and where to buy them.

But you're changing definitions of a simple word having obvious contextual confirmation, so it's really up to you to make and prove your case if you even care what others think and have to say. I might even read through an article or something you post, and you think agrees with you.

Also, you used Jesus' repeated rhetorical command re: having ears to substantiate your view of "hearing" and I (and others) clarified what Jesus is saying and why it doesn't back you up. Why no response?

I've posted at times more extensive information on words, grammar, context, etc., only to have it ignored or claimed to be inaccurate by posters I could tell had no clue how to analyze and reason through it. I'm kind of done with the process unless I get some like-kind interaction. There is virtually no authority orientation here other than the "my pastor says" that Paul dealt with in 1Cor. I've posted from some of the best reference material available only to be told the published scholar doesn't know what he's saying but with zero backup for such a statement.

 

[studier]

He and a few others are dismantling all of the Calvinists proof texts one by one, in real time.
He is also on YouTube and X.

who is on YT & X?

 

[Magenta]

who is on YT & X?

Someone who contradicts and denies Scripture in an ear-tickling way HeIs finds pleasing.

 

[Genez]

Then why do you not take this verse to heart?

Because what is being dealt with is NOT a foolish and ignorant controversy.
That's why.

It is about a misunderstanding of what the Word tells us.

 

[Mem]

who is on YT & X?

I assume she's referring the author of Haka's link, Dr. Leighton Flowers. I went to the "About" and skipped all of it to read the first of 770 thoughts on "About" and the most recent was a March 11 '24 question from Daniel asking if he thought Calvinism is a damnable heresy answered by Brian Wagner, Mar 12 '24 that summarily said, "Although it's still the true gospel, it has a deformed view of the true gospel..."

 

[Blain]

Because what is being dealt with is NOT a foolish and ignorant controversy.
That's why.

It is about a misunderstanding of what the Word tells us.

If that is the case then why post that verse? as far as I can tell there seems to be a great misunderstanding in general not a useless controversy

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Agree.

I like clarity.

It's clear by admission that @Cameron143 is defining a very basic word differently. And we know why.

There is absolutely no way to have any agreement whatsoever in this section of Scripture with anyone who is redefining words.

I was reading the merry-go-round discussion about Faith & Hearing. I was noting how @Cameron143 IMO was completely lacking in clarity.

It's really not about prepositions (like BY, FROM, THROUGH) with Cameron, but about the definition of "hearing". And the word "hearing" is really not even mainly speaking of hearing or listening in Rom10:17, but about "what is heard" - the Gospel. Faith from the Gospel & the Gospel from God's spoken statement.

The Gospel is God's power for salvation.

yes I think Roman’s ten there if we look close isn’t confusing. It’s hearkening to a prophecy in the ( isaiah 52-53)about the gospel that would be preached by and about Christ Jesus

But couple folks are just missing some information . God did indeed make Isreal unable to hear his word after tbey rebelled and ignored it for a long time and had to choose some of them and make them able to hear him again .

“And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not. Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.

Then said I, Lord, how long? And he answered, Until the cities be wasted without inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land be utterly desolate, and the LORD have removed men far away, and there be a great forsaking in the midst of the land.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭6:9-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This is a specific condition upon israel after they for many generations provoked his wrath and anger by rejecting and ignoring his word as if they couldn’t hear it . So he made them unable to hear it but for the remnant that he chose the remnant promised to be saved the tenth of them in the final verse of that prophecy

“And in them is fulfilled the prophecy ( not fulfilled in every human ) of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; And seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: For this people's heart is waxed gross, And their ears are dull of hearing, And their eyes they have closed; Lest at any time they should see with their eyes, And hear with their ears, And should understand with their heart, And should be converted, and I should heal them.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭13:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Paul later calls Jews together and witnesses the gospel to them ….
Some believe and some don’t

“And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Isaiah the prophet unto our fathers,

saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; And seeing ye shall see, and not perceive: For the heart of this people is waxed gross, And their ears are dull of hearing, And their eyes have they closed; Lest they should see with their eyes, And hear with their ears, And understand with their heart, And should be converted, And I should heal them.

Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭28:25-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s a misunderstanding based upon the fact that he made Israelites blind and deaf to his word and then chose a remnant of Israelites and unstopped thier ears in order to spread the gospel to all people offering salvation . they are applying things he said specifically to Israelites based on the ot curses to everyone else who’s never been under that curse.

gentiles were never made blind and deaf to Gods word, to begin with they had been excluded from the covenant all together and he wasn’t speaking covenants to them at that time only israel. But They broke his covenant and ignored his word so he made them blind and deaf to his word . ANd later needed to do stuff like this

“Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:45‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He had to do this for them because he had done this prior

“Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; And seeing ye shall see, and not perceive: For the heart of this people is waxed gross, ….Lest they should see with their eyes, And hear with their ears, And understand with their heart, And should be converted, And I should heal them.

He hasn’t done that to others so he doesn’t need to undo it it’s a specific co diction of Israelites at that time because their covenant was coming to a culmination as a curse for breaking it