Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Magenta]

1 Corinthians 3 v 19-21a, 1 Corinthians 1 v 19 ~ The wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness.” And again, “The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile.” Therefore, stop boasting in men. For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”
I made the font more legible for you, @fredoheaven

 

[Blain]

The mind of Christ hey? Here's something you might be interested to know.

When Christ came the first time he brought a sword, in the Greek it is a machaira. Matt.10:34 It is a long bladed knife usually used for slicing and dicing. It was the type of sword Peter, a fisherman, carried when he cut off the servant's ear. Jn.18:10

Now that Christ is ascended and glorified, the sword He wields is a romphaia. Rev.1:16 That's a big broadsword used to chop off heads, the sort of sword Roman soldiers carried into battle. That's the sword he uses when battling believers who refuse to repent of their evil. Rev.2:16

The moral of the story is no-one can tell another how he must fight the good fight.

It is Christs role to bring a sword tell me where in scripture are we told to bring one against each other?

 

[Blain]

The mind of Christ hey? Here's something you might be interested to know.

When Christ came the first time he brought a sword, in the Greek it is a machaira. Matt.10:34 It is a long bladed knife usually used for slicing and dicing. It was the type of sword Peter, a fisherman, carried when he cut off the servant's ear. Jn.18:10

Now that Christ is ascended and glorified, the sword He wields is a romphaia. Rev.1:16 That's a big broadsword used to chop off heads, the sort of sword Roman soldiers carried into battle. That's the sword he uses when battling believers who refuse to repent of their evil. Rev.2:16

The moral of the story is no-one can tell another how he must fight the good fight.

Also there is a difference between fighting the good fight and trying to justify fighting each other, the scriptures say this 1 Thessalonians 5:11 states, "Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing

That is the evidence of how we ought to treat each other now where is the evidence for bringing a sword against one another?

 

[MaryM]

Many have probably realised i don't think we can exercise free will, even think it's impossible for us to. Won't explain why i think it's an impossiblility for us yet, think it's useful for some to express why they think it exists first.

I have no doubt we have and can make choices throughout life, however, think our options are far more restricted than most realise. What do you think?

Yes we can, up to a point. A great part of our lives is down to ourselves. Yet humans being as we are, cannot be left to do as we will without restrictions as we are far too dangerous to each other. So we must be policed.
Still, even within the thickest prison walls, whether physical or mental, we have choice of how to behave, of how to react and deal with the circumstances.

 

[sawdust]

It is Christs role to bring a sword tell me where in scripture are we told to bring one against each other?

You said we should have the mind of Christ, I showed you Christ's thinking. Think like Him or don't.

 

[sawdust]

Also there is a difference between fighting the good fight and trying to justify fighting each other, the scriptures say this 1 Thessalonians 5:11 states, "Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing

That is the evidence of how we ought to treat each other now where is the evidence for bringing a sword against one another?

Again, I showed you the mind of Christ. You think I was justifying myself by showing His mind?

 

[Mem]

It is Christs role to bring a sword tell me where in scripture are we told to bring one against each other?

Practically speaking, how is this done? Should Genez stand with Cameron? or should Cameron stand with Genez? Where one is standing is diametrically opposed to the position that other is standing on, so someone has to submit to the other in order for them to walk together. They have to agree. As scripture tells us, "Can two walk together except they be agreed? (Am 3:3)"

 

[Blain]

You said we should have the mind of Christ, I showed you Christ's thinking. Think like Him or don't.

Then you don't understand his mind. In his earthly ministry what didi you see him doing? what did he teach? did you ever see him teach to bring a sword or to argue amongst each other? or did you see him teach love compassion forgiveness and patience?

 

[studier]

I am interested to see where you are going with this you have my attention

Not going anywhere further.

The Pastor @Genez learns from has quite a bit of teaching on being tested spiritually. One part of this is "people testing" or being tested by other people. With our "eyes on Christ" we can pass such tests. If we get fixated on people - "eyes on people" - with all the tendencies within ourselves, we're going to not only fail the test but likely get stuck in a routine of failure.

My pondering was in regard to some personal business and a person who the numbers (objective detail) say is lying to me and playing clever communications games to try to hide it. Additionally, these threads are full of games and fallacious methods of argumentation, mostly just practically learned over time because they have worked on people or people think work on other people (IOW they don't know they're arguing illogically but they are). There is very little straightforward, objective discussion going on here. There is some, Thank God.

These plus a few other such adventures I'm currently dealing with reminded me of those teachings which I also heard. It's extremely easy to fall into "eyes on people" and get caught up in the vast nonsense imbedded into all of us. In a sense I thought I saw a bit of dealing with this in the @Genez post I responded to.

If we want peace in our whole spiritual selves, that series of teaching was something we should all listen to. To a large degree, since we were created as communal beings and deal with people nearly every day, IMO, as an observer with whatever spiritual eyes I've had developed in me over time, most of our issues and problems in this world on the surface can be boiled down to one word, "people".

This forum is a constant test whether we know it or not.

 

[Blain]

Again, I showed you the mind of Christ. You think I was justifying myself by showing His mind?

You showed me what Jesus came to do not what or how his mind works, everything that came from his mouth concerning us was about love and patience and forgiveness his role is not his mind and if you understood his mind then you would not equate it to that of a sword.

and also just because Peter had a sword and cut off the servants ear has nothing to do with Christ's mind now when Jesus said to him turn the other cheek and healed the servants ear that is his mind.

 

[Blain]

Practically speaking, how is this done? Should Genez stand with Cameron? or should Cameron stand with Genez? Where one is standing is diametrically opposed to the position that other is standing on, so someone has to submit to the other in order for them to walk together. They have to agree. As scripture tells us, "Can two walk together except they be agreed? (Am 3:3)"

We can disagree but still be respectful we can even debate but with the heart of a student we can not agree on most things yet show the love of Christ and this goes for everyone it doesn't matter who stands with who it is how you stand that matters

 

[studier]

Somebody tell @Cameron143 that the context is hearing AND OBEYING the PREACHING by those whom God has SENT.

"So then faith cometh ***OF/FROM/OUT OF G1537*** hearing, and hearing ***THROUGH G1223*** the word of God" (BEING PREACHED!)

The Berean Literal Bible gets it right.

"So faith is FROM hearing, and hearing THROUGH the word of Christ."

Never let a bizarre faulty out of context interpretation that gives rise to an heresy go to waste is the super-determinist way I guess.

There are definitely some things in this language to discuss. And, yes, the Berean Literal is a good place to start. We could probably just sit and focus on Rom10:14 or Rom10:17 and find a topic (like "hearing") to haggle over for the next century. Rom10:16 would be a key to what Paul is talking about as you've picked up in part.

 

[Cameron143]

That is how that faith in God comes.

Stop and ask someone directions?
That takes faith in what he said to pursue the destination.

Getting directions is a little different than thus saith the Lord.

 

[Cameron143]

amen Cameron ... God's Word tells us to keep His Word in our hearts and teach His Word to our children ...

Deuteronomy 11:18-20 Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes. And ye shall teach them your children, speaking of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. And thou shalt write them upon the door posts of thine house, and upon thy gates

I believe our schools should teach the book of Proverbs to junior and senior high school students ... maybe we wouldn't have such a generation of knuckleheads that believe such utter nonsense we see going on these days ...
.

I homeschool my kids.

 

[Cameron143]

Cameron thinks one has to be regenerated before you can believe. To be regenerated is to be saved from death. It is what the power of the Gospel does. This effectively has him saved as an unbeliever. The order for him is saved, believe, faith but the call is to believe for God has determined to save believers and when one believes, God honours His word and saves and then gifts faith.

Regenerated means to be made alive..
you hath He quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins.

 

[Mem]

We can disagree but still be respectful we can even debate but with the heart of a student we can not agree on most things yet show the love of Christ and this goes for everyone it doesn't matter who stands with who it is how you stand that matters

That everyone display humility would be ideal. Yet, we even have different ideas about the meaning of humility. Humility one thing, it's a character trait of an individual, but humiliation is something else. It's part of the character of what a certain individual does, which is definitely not from the character of humility. Personally, I figure that being wrong is plenty enough humiliation that anyone should have to bear. I watched a learning program with my grandgirl about a big cheese that always won everything until a cheese wedge came along and beat him in every event. While the big cheese went through all the emotions of losing, the wedge humbly accepted its award gracefully saying, "...anyone can do it."

 

[cv5]

There are definitely some things in this language to discuss. And, yes, the Berean Literal is a good place to start. We could probably just sit and focus on Rom10:14 or Rom10:17 and find a topic (like "hearing") to haggle over for the next century. Rom10:16 would be a key to what Paul is talking about as you've picked up in part.

Not much to discuss really. Other than preventing the misapprehension of one verse pulled out of context from becoming another Gnostic heresy that only the super-determinist gatekeepers own and understand.

 

[Blain]

That everyone display humility would be ideal. Yet, we even have different ideas about the meaning of humility. Humility one thing, it's a character trait of an individual, but humiliation is something else. It's part of the character of what a certain individual does, which is definitely not from the character of humility. Personally, I figure that being wrong is plenty enough humiliation that anyone should have to bear. I watched a learning program with my grandgirl about a big cheese that always won everything until a cheese wedge came along and beat him in every event. While the big cheese went through all the emotions of losing, the wedge humbly accepted its award gracefully saying, "...anyone can do it."

Even if we have different ideas of what humility means Jesus showed us what that looks like. any time we have wonder what something is we can look to Christ. as for humiliation well Jesus showed us what that looks like as well

 

[Mem]

Even if we have different ideas of what humility means Jesus showed us what that looks like. any time we have wonder what something is we can look to Christ. as for humiliation well Jesus showed us what that looks like as well

So we're back at square one since anybody can justify their behavior claiming it is what Jesus would do.

 

[HeIsHere]

So duplicitous, it's unbelievable.

Whosoever believes Cameron, not whosoever does not believe.

Thank you .... very much so on all you state here!