Chosen People

[brightfame52]

Chosen in Christ before the foundation of the World !

Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

The word in is the greek prep which means:

in, on, at, by, with,

en (a preposition) – properly, in (inside, within); (figuratively) "in the realm (sphere) of," as in the condition (state) in which something operates from the inside (within).

See Christ is Gods Elect See Isa 42:1

Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

1 Pet 2:4

To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,

And no doubt He was Chosen of God before the foundation, which was the date the Father set His Love upon the Son of His Love judging from Jn 17:24

24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

So Christ being Chosen, He wasn't Chosen alone, no many members were Chosen in and with Him because He was their Head .

So its simply impossible to affirm Christs Election of God and not His Members of His Body, lest we have a member less Head which would be a travesty untold. A writer Dr Goodwin wrote:

`as in the womb, head and members are not conceived apart, but together, as having relation to each other; so were we and Christ (as making up one mystical body to God) formed together in the eternal womb of election.''
And in the same place he says,
``Jesus Christ was the head of election, and of the elect of God; and so in order of nature elected first, though in order of time we were elected together; in the womb of election he, the head, came out first, and then we, the members.''​

Christ and His members may be alluded to in this Psalm of David 139:15-16

15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.

16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The promises were given before Jesus' birth. The genealogy of Christ, as found in Matthew and Luke, traces back to Adam and David.
Those listed are of the Elect of God. Jesus said, 'Salvation is of the Jews, did He not?' Abraham died before the Incarnation of Christ. Is he in hell? The point is the Jews are the called out ones, and Israel today is still important.

“The promises were given before Jesus' birth. “

yeah that’s what I was saying it was made to Abraham way before jesus birth …Jesus birth fulfilled it .

“The genealogy of Christ, as found in Matthew and Luke, traces back to Adam and David.”

jesus geneology traces to Abraham Isaac Jacob David ect all the way back to Seths line from Adam . What’s the point ?

“The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

my point is that Abraham was given a promise for a seed that would bless all nations and tbat he would be the father of many nations .

“and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭22:18‬ ‭

That seed of promise is Christ he fulfills it.

“Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Those listed are of the Elect of God. “

your saying only seths biological line of first born human flesh is “ the elect ? “


“Jesus said, 'Salvation is of the Jews, did He not?' “

sure jesus was born a Jew wasnt he ? And all of the old terrwment promises for Jesus ….came through Hebrew prophets . Not really sure your point at all jesus was a Jew according to his flesh

“Abraham died before the Incarnation of Christ. Is he in hell?”

what a wierd thing to ask of course not it’s his promise …,,we’ll be joining him

“And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭8:11-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The point is the Jews are the called out ones, and Israel today is still important.”

The called out ones ? Jew and gentile means nothing to God not does physical geneology anymore . Your thinking like the old covenant wasn’t broken and they weren’t cursed by it like he said …as if israel didn’t reject thier messiah and have him killed for bieng a blasphemer

they also thought there would never be any consequences for thier actions because they were Abraham’s descendants that really turns out badly for them

But sure Israel’s important never said any different

 

[greenonions]

Why do the Jews say they're Gods chosen people? Does it mean they're justified and cleaner than non jews?

In Exodus 19:5-6, God said the Israelites would be His special treasure IF they obey His voice and keep His covenant.
Deuteronomy 7:6 says that God chose the Israelites to be a people for Himself, a special treasure. It seems unconditional because there is no "if" in Deuteronomy 7:6, but we must not overlook the context that Moses was only talking to the Israelites who remained faithful to God and did not die as a result of their sin (Deut. 4:3-4)

Romans 11:7 talks about the "elect" as a singular entity of God's people who obtained what Israel seeks. Elect means chosen. This "elect" are God's true chosen people, and it includes both Jews and Gentiles, i.e. the church and OT saints.

Romans 11:7 NKJV "What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded."

1 Peter 2:9 also applies the chosen generation terminology to believers.

 

[Beckworth]

The Jews are indeed God's chosen people. Yet they are also rebellious, immoral, idolatrous and proud. Just like all of us. God chose to demonstrate His love and power in different ways. He took an idolator, Abraham, and Abraham's barren wife, and made a mighty nation from his descendants. Israel rebelled against God and so lost their power and glory. Solomon's reign was the pinnacle of Israel's power. But he disobeyed God. After his death, Israel declined. The Jews rejected Jesus. Eventually, Rome had enough of Israel's rebellion and destroyed Israel's towns and villages. Most Jews migrated to other countries. The Romans renamed Israel Palestine.

God plan and purpose cannot be thwarted. He promised Abraham a land, Israel, and the nation of the same name. He promised to kick Israel out of the land if they rebelled and that happened. he also promised to bring them back. That began in the 19th century. Mark Twain visited Jerusalem in 1867. He said that Christians and Muslims outnumbered Jews. Four years later, Jews outnumbered non Jews.

In 1948, there were about 630,000 people living in Israel. Five Arab armies declared war on the new state. The whole world could have attacked Israel, but God would have stepped in to save the nation.

Israel has a population of about 10 million, with 8 million being Jews. The surrounding Muslim nations have about 450 million people. Yet Israel overcomes all opposition. It is by the power of God. The world hates Israel because it is a testimony to God's power and glory.

Yes, at one time Israel was God’s chosen people but the Bible is plain that that is no longer true. 1 Peter 2:7 says “To you who believe…verse 9-You are a CHOSEN generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, HIS OWN SPECIAL PEOPLE…verse 10- you were “ Once not a people but NOW are THE PEOPLE OF GOD.” The Bible plainly teaches that the Jews are no longer God’s “chosen” people; NOW, it’s those who believe in Jesus as the Christ. Christian’s are the CHOSEN people of God now.

Every physical promise that God ever made to the Jews was fulfilled. God no longer owes them anything. The “ land promise (Genesis 15:18) was fulfilled in the days of Joshua, Joshua 21:43- “So the Lord gave to Israel ALL the lands which He had sworn to give to their fathers, and they took possession of it and dwelt in it.” Verse 45- “NOT A WORD FAILED of any good thing which the Lord had spoken to the house of Israel. ALL CAME TO PASS.” 1 Kings 4:21 “ Solomon reigned over ALL kingdoms from the River ( Euphrates) …as far as the border of Egypt.” Chapter 8:56 HE “has given to His people Israel, according to ALL THAT HE PROMISED. There has not failed ONE WORD of all His good promise.” God only promised the land to the Jews as long as they remained faithful to Him. We see how He removed them from the land when they worshipped idols and sent them into captivity for 70 years in Babylon. He had already removed the northern part of Israel and they never got the land back because they were always unfaithful to God There was a “remnant” of faithful Jews that returned to the land and lived there until they rejected and killed God’s only Son—their Savior, the Messiah in AD 33. Forty years later (AD 70) God sent the Romans to destroy the Jewish nation, burn their temple and destroy all of their genealogies that traced their ancestry back to Abraham. Today, a Jew cannot prove that He is a descendant of Abraham unless he is able to do it through DNA. All of their prized records are gone. Do you think that destruction was a punishment for rejecting and murdering God’s beloved Son? I think so. Pilate was willing to release Jesus but they cried out, CRUCIFY HIM, CRUCIFY HIM!! Pilate washed his hands and said,” I am innocent from the blood of this “JUST” person. Notice what THEY said: “LET HIS BLOOD BE ON US AND OUR CHILDREN (descendants). And so it still is. Perhaps they placed a “curse” on themselves by saying that. Their temple was destroyed and thousands were killed just 40 years later. They have been “run out” and persecuted everywhere they go. They continued to reject Christ and persecute Christian’s all through the first century. The book of Acts is filled with the malicious things they did to those who “preached Christ.” Romans 11:28 calls them enemies to the gospel. If the world hates Israel, as you say, then it may be part of the consequences they are suffering for murdering an innocent man, who only went about doing good. That would be bad enough, but it was God’s only beloved Son—the Redeemer and Saviour of the world. Yes, Jesus had to die, but as Matthew 18:7 says, “Offenses must come, but WOE TO THat man by whom the offense comes.” Woe to the Hews. They still reject Jesus and Jesus said, “ NO ONE comes to the Father except trough the Son.” So they do not even have God anymore. 2 John 9 says if you do not abide in the doctrine of Christ YOU DO NOt HAVE GOd! These people are unrepentant, unbelievers, who reject God’s Son. Even Paul realized they were not the people of Gid and were not “saved” 2000 years ago when he said, “ My hearts desire is that Israel might be saved.” They cannot be saved unless they repent and come to Christ. God will not “force” them to accept Christ, just as He does not force us; and God has never promised to save anyone in their sins. To think that He will is a misunderstanding of God and the Bible.

 

[Gideon300]

Yes, at one time Israel was God’s chosen people but the Bible is plain that that is no longer true. 1 Peter 2:7 says “To you who believe…verse 9-You are a CHOSEN generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, HIS OWN SPECIAL PEOPLE…verse 10- you were “ Once not a people but NOW are THE PEOPLE OF GOD.” The Bible plainly teaches that the Jews are no longer God’s “chosen” people; NOW, it’s those who believe in Jesus as the Christ. Christian’s are the CHOSEN people of God now.

Every physical promise that God ever made to the Jews was fulfilled. God no longer owes them anything. The “ land promise (Genesis 15:18) was fulfilled in the days of Joshua, Joshua 21:43- “So the Lord gave to Israel ALL the lands which He had sworn to give to their fathers, and they took possession of it and dwelt in it.” Verse 45- “NOT A WORD FAILED of any good thing which the Lord had spoken to the house of Israel. ALL CAME TO PASS.” 1 Kings 4:21 “ Solomon reigned over ALL kingdoms from the River ( Euphrates) …as far as the border of Egypt.” Chapter 8:56 HE “has given to His people Israel, according to ALL THAT HE PROMISED. There has not failed ONE WORD of all His good promise.” God only promised the land to the Jews as long as they remained faithful to Him. We see how He removed them from the land when they worshipped idols and sent them into captivity for 70 years in Babylon. He had already removed the northern part of Israel and they never got the land back because they were always unfaithful to God There was a “remnant” of faithful Jews that returned to the land and lived there until they rejected and killed God’s only Son—their Savior, the Messiah in AD 33. Forty years later (AD 70) God sent the Romans to destroy the Jewish nation, burn their temple and destroy all of their genealogies that traced their ancestry back to Abraham. Today, a Jew cannot prove that He is a descendant of Abraham unless he is able to do it through DNA. All of their prized records are gone. Do you think that destruction was a punishment for rejecting and murdering God’s beloved Son? I think so. Pilate was willing to release Jesus but they cried out, CRUCIFY HIM, CRUCIFY HIM!! Pilate washed his hands and said,” I am innocent from the blood of this “JUST” person. Notice what THEY said: “LET HIS BLOOD BE ON US AND OUR CHILDREN (descendants). And so it still is. Perhaps they placed a “curse” on themselves by saying that. Their temple was destroyed and thousands were killed just 40 years later. They have been “run out” and persecuted everywhere they go. They continued to reject Christ and persecute Christian’s all through the first century. The book of Acts is filled with the malicious things they did to those who “preached Christ.” Romans 11:28 calls them enemies to the gospel. If the world hates Israel, as you say, then it may be part of the consequences they are suffering for murdering an innocent man, who only went about doing good. That would be bad enough, but it was God’s only beloved Son—the Redeemer and Saviour of the world. Yes, Jesus had to die, but as Matthew 18:7 says, “Offenses must come, but WOE TO THat man by whom the offense comes.” Woe to the Hews. They still reject Jesus and Jesus said, “ NO ONE comes to the Father except trough the Son.” So they do not even have God anymore. 2 John 9 says if you do not abide in the doctrine of Christ YOU DO NOt HAVE GOd! These people are unrepentant, unbelievers, who reject God’s Son. Even Paul realized they were not the people of Gid and were not “saved” 2000 years ago when he said, “ My hearts desire is that Israel might be saved.” They cannot be saved unless they repent and come to Christ. God will not “force” them to accept Christ, just as He does not force us; and God has never promised to save anyone in their sins. To think that He will is a misunderstanding of God and the Bible.

Read Romans 9, 10 and 11. No one I know is claiming that anyone will be saved apart from accepting Christ. What some of us, me included, believe that Israel as a nation is still God's possession. The book of Revelation makes no sense unless Israel exists.

Do you not understand this fact? Israel is central to God's purpose. There 144,000 witnesses are of the 12 tribes (Dan is rejected). Israel will suffer again as the world's hate is poured out yet again. The world hates God so of course it hates Israel. No other nation, not even North Korea, is subject to such hostility and hatred - and for no logical reason whatsoever.

Do you know what a graft is? I can assure you that a graft does not kill the tree. So no, the Church does not replace Israel. God dissolves the spiritual differences while maintaining the nation of Israel as His own. Read God's covenant with Abraham again. Then look up the word "eternal". You might learn something.

 

[Beckworth]

Read Romans 9, 10 and 11. No one I know is claiming that anyone will be saved apart from accepting Christ. What some of us, me included, believe that Israel as a nation is still God's possession. The book of Revelation makes no sense unless Israel exists.

Do you not understand this fact? Israel is central to God's purpose. There 144,000 witnesses are of the 12 tribes (Dan is rejected). Israel will suffer again as the world's hate is poured out yet again. The world hates God so of course it hates Israel. No other nation, not even North Korea, is subject to such hostility and hatred - and for no logical reason whatsoever.

Do you know what a graft is? I can assure you that a graft does not kill the tree. So no, the Church does not replace Israel. God dissolves the spiritual differences while maintaining the nation of Israel as His own. Read God's covenant with Abraham again. Then look up the word "eternal". You might learn something.

Read Romans 9, 10 and 11. No one I know is claiming that anyone will be saved apart from accepting Christ. What some of us, me included, believe that Israel as a nation is still God's possession. The book of Revelation makes no sense unless Israel exists.

Do you not understand this fact? Israel is central to God's purpose. There 144,000 witnesses are of the 12 tribes (Dan is rejected). Israel will suffer again as the world's hate is poured out yet again. The world hates God so of course it hates Israel. No other nation, not even North Korea, is subject to such hostility and hatred - and for no logical reason whatsoever.

Do you know what a graft is? I can assure you that a graft does not kill the tree. So no, the Church does not replace Israel. God dissolves the spiritual differences while maintaining the nation of Israel as His own. Read God's covenant with Abraham again. Then look up the word "eternal". You might learn something.

Did you even read 1 Peter 2:7-10? You said Israel is God’s chosen people. That scripture proves they are not.

God brought back a “remnant” of faithful Jews to Jerusalem at the end of the 70 year captivity Jeremiah 23:3 where they lived in the land until AD70 when Rome destroyed their temple and all the genealogies. They have already returned to the land—that prophesy has been fulfilled.

You think they are hated for “no logical reason whatsoever”???? They killed the Son of God!! You are treating the murder of Jesus as if it doesn’t matter at all and has no significance.

Where is the scripture that says “they are still God’s possession?”?” The book of Revelation may not make any sense to you unless Israel still exists but I assure you that it does to many, many thousands of people who do not believe as you do.

There is a “physical” Israel, and there is a “spiritual” Israel. Romans 2:28-29. Christians today are the “Israel” of God—not the physical Jews.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Did you even read 1 Peter 2:7-10? You said Israel is God’s chosen people. That scripture proves they are not.

God brought back a “remnant” of faithful Jews to Jerusalem at the end of the 70 year captivity Jeremiah 23:3 where they lived in the land until AD70 when Rome destroyed their temple and all the genealogies. They have already returned to the land—that prophesy has been fulfilled.

You think they are hated for “no logical reason whatsoever”???? They killed the Son of God!! You are treating the murder of Jesus as if it doesn’t matter at all and has no significance.

Where is the scripture that says “they are still God’s possession?”?” The book of Revelation may not make any sense to you unless Israel still exists but I assure you that it does to many, many thousands of people who do not believe as you do.

There is a “physical” Israel, and there is a “spiritual” Israel. Romans 2:28-29. Christians today are the “Israel” of God—not the physical Jews.

“You think they are hated for “no logical reason whatsoever”????”

To understand israel we can read thier covenant made between tbey and God just some excerpts

“And it shall come to pass, if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe and to do all his commandments which I command thee this day,

that the LORD thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth: and all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God.

…The LORD shall establish thee an holy people unto himself, as he hath sworn unto thee, if thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, and walk in his ways. And all people of the earth shall see that thou art called by the name of the LORD; and they shall be afraid of thee. And the LORD shall make thee the head, and not the tail; and thou shalt be above only, and thou shalt not be beneath; if that thou hearken unto the commandments of the LORD thy God, which I command thee this day, to observe and to do them: and thou shalt not go aside from any of the words which I command thee this day, to the right hand, or to the left, to go after other gods to serve them.
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭28:1-2, 7, 9-10, 13-14, ‭KJV‬‬

most people never get around to reading the other possibility if they didn’t keep all of his commandments and do them

“But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee: cursed shalt thou be in the city, and cursed shalt thou be in the field. The LORD shall send upon thee cursing, vexation, and rebuke, in all that thou settest thine hand unto for to do, until thou be destroyed, and until thou perish quickly; because of the wickedness of thy doings, whereby thou hast forsaken me. The LORD shall make the pestilence cleave unto thee, until he have consumed thee from off the land, whither thou goest to possess it. The LORD shall smite thee with a consumption, and with a fever, and with an inflammation, and with an extreme burning, and with the sword, and with blasting, and with mildew; and they shall pursue thee until thou perish. The LORD shall make the rain of thy land powder and dust: from heaven shall it come down upon thee, until thou be destroyed. The LORD shall cause thee to be smitten before thine enemies: thou shalt go out one way against them, and flee seven ways before them: and shalt be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth. And thy carcase shall be meat unto all fowls of the air, and unto the beasts of the earth, and no man shall fray them away. and thou shalt grope at noonday, as the blind gropeth in darkness, and thou shalt not prosper in thy ways: and thou shalt be only oppressed and spoiled evermore, and no man shall save thee. And thou shalt become an astonishment, a proverb, and a byword, among all nations whither the LORD shall lead thee. The stranger that is within thee shall get up above thee very high; and thou shalt come down very low. Moreover all these curses shall come upon thee, and shall pursue thee, and overtake thee, till thou be destroyed; because thou hearkenedst not unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which he commanded thee: and they shall be upon thee for a sign and for a wonder, and upon thy seed for ever.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭28:15-16, 20-22, 24-26, 29, 37, 43, 45-46‬ ‭

all of the misunderstandings about Israel can be solved by reading thier covenant conditions and then following what they did defiling it all and worshipping many many gods for many many years . People all seem to have conclusions that even scripture can’t change

Though , we need to be careful not to “ hate Jews “ in any way thinking it’s biblically sound and supported . The curses would spread to all the nations who persecuted isreal when he scattered them . Jews aren’t any worse off than gentiles now we’re all gonna be doomed to the same destination if we don’t repent and believe the gospel that seems to be the Jewish conundrum “Judaism “ rejects Christs identity and resurrection.

jew and gentile is based on the ot law the gospel is for anyone without regard to thier flesh and blood heritage.

No doubt israel was chosen by God but then they were given a covenant after he saved them and delivered them from slavery and they broke it and it’s harsh and really clear . But he also made a new covenant with the house of Israel and Judah and then also everyone else

 

[Lifted_by_the_word]

“You think they are hated for “no logical reason whatsoever”????”

To understand israel we can read thier covenant made between tbey and God just some excerpts

“And it shall come to pass, if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe and to do all his commandments which I command thee this day,

that the LORD thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth: and all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God.

…The LORD shall establish thee an holy people unto himself, as he hath sworn unto thee, if thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, and walk in his ways. And all people of the earth shall see that thou art called by the name of the LORD; and they shall be afraid of thee. And the LORD shall make thee the head, and not the tail; and thou shalt be above only, and thou shalt not be beneath; if that thou hearken unto the commandments of the LORD thy God, which I command thee this day, to observe and to do them: and thou shalt not go aside from any of the words which I command thee this day, to the right hand, or to the left, to go after other gods to serve them.
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭28:1-2, 7, 9-10, 13-14, ‭KJV‬‬

most people never get around to reading the other possibility if they didn’t keep all of his commandments and do them

“But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee: cursed shalt thou be in the city, and cursed shalt thou be in the field. The LORD shall send upon thee cursing, vexation, and rebuke, in all that thou settest thine hand unto for to do, until thou be destroyed, and until thou perish quickly; because of the wickedness of thy doings, whereby thou hast forsaken me. The LORD shall make the pestilence cleave unto thee, until he have consumed thee from off the land, whither thou goest to possess it. The LORD shall smite thee with a consumption, and with a fever, and with an inflammation, and with an extreme burning, and with the sword, and with blasting, and with mildew; and they shall pursue thee until thou perish. The LORD shall make the rain of thy land powder and dust: from heaven shall it come down upon thee, until thou be destroyed. The LORD shall cause thee to be smitten before thine enemies: thou shalt go out one way against them, and flee seven ways before them: and shalt be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth. And thy carcase shall be meat unto all fowls of the air, and unto the beasts of the earth, and no man shall fray them away. and thou shalt grope at noonday, as the blind gropeth in darkness, and thou shalt not prosper in thy ways: and thou shalt be only oppressed and spoiled evermore, and no man shall save thee. And thou shalt become an astonishment, a proverb, and a byword, among all nations whither the LORD shall lead thee. The stranger that is within thee shall get up above thee very high; and thou shalt come down very low. Moreover all these curses shall come upon thee, and shall pursue thee, and overtake thee, till thou be destroyed; because thou hearkenedst not unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which he commanded thee: and they shall be upon thee for a sign and for a wonder, and upon thy seed for ever.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭28:15-16, 20-22, 24-26, 29, 37, 43, 45-46‬ ‭

all of the misunderstandings about Israel can be solved by reading thier covenant conditions and then following what they did defiling it all and worshipping many many gods for many many years . People all seem to have conclusions that even scripture can’t change

Though , we need to be careful not to “ hate Jews “ in any way thinking it’s biblically sound and supported . The curses would spread to all the nations who persecuted isreal when he scattered them . Jews aren’t any worse off than gentiles now we’re all gonna be doomed to the same destination if we don’t repent and believe the gospel that seems to be the Jewish conundrum “Judaism “ rejects Christs identity and resurrection.

jew and gentile is based on the ot law the gospel is for anyone without regard to thier flesh and blood heritage.

No doubt israel was chosen by God but then they were given a covenant after he saved them and delivered them from slavery and they broke it and it’s harsh and really clear . But he also made a new covenant with the house of Israel and Judah and then also everyone else

The "IF" should be high lighted bigger and brighter each it it is said.

 

[HeIsHere]

The Bible plainly teaches that the Jews are no longer God’s “chosen” people; NOW, it’s those who believe in Jesus as the Christ. Christian’s are the CHOSEN people of God now.

Amen.
Yes plainly taught.

 

[HeIsHere]

Did you even read 1 Peter 2:7-10? You said Israel is God’s chosen people. That scripture proves they are not.

God brought back a “remnant” of faithful Jews to Jerusalem at the end of the 70 year captivity Jeremiah 23:3 where they lived in the land until AD70 when Rome destroyed their temple and all the genealogies. They have already returned to the land—that prophesy has been fulfilled.

You think they are hated for “no logical reason whatsoever”???? They killed the Son of God!! You are treating the murder of Jesus as if it doesn’t matter at all and has no significance.

Where is the scripture that says “they are still God’s possession?”?” The book of Revelation may not make any sense to you unless Israel still exists but I assure you that it does to many, many thousands of people who do not believe as you do.

There is a “physical” Israel, and there is a “spiritual” Israel. Romans 2:28-29. Christians today are the “Israel” of God—not the physical Jews.

More Amen!!

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The "IF" should be high lighted bigger and brighter each it it is said.

Yeah tbat parts pretty important huh? Also the part “if you do not …..then this other opposite outcome will come to pass just as the blessing Will if you keep the covenant “

I honestly believe studying Israel’s covenant word and prophets after like this this is important context after hearing the “ ifs “

“And the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the LORD, and served Baalim: and they forsook the LORD God of their fathers, which brought them out of the land of Egypt, and followed other gods, of the gods of the people that were round about them, and bowed themselves unto them, and provoked the LORD to anger. And they forsook the LORD, and served Baal and Ashtaroth. And the anger of the LORD was hot against Israel, and he delivered them into the hands of spoilers that spoiled them, and he sold them into the hands of their enemies round about, so that they could not any longer stand before their enemies. Whithersoever they went out, the hand of the LORD was against them for evil, as the LORD had said, and as the LORD had sworn unto them: and they were greatly distressed. Nevertheless the LORD raised up judges, which delivered them out of the hand of those that spoiled them. And yet they would not hearken unto their judges, but they went a whoring after other gods, and bowed themselves unto them: they turned quickly out of the way which their fathers walked in, obeying the commandments of the LORD; but they did not so. And when the LORD raised them up judges, then the LORD was with the judge, and delivered them out of the hand of their enemies all the days of the judge: for it repented the LORD because of their groanings by reason of them that oppressed them and vexed them. And it came to pass, when the judge was dead, that they returned, and corrupted themselves more than their fathers, in following other gods to serve them, and to bow down unto them; they ceased not from their own doings, nor from their stubborn way. And the anger of the LORD was hot against Israel; and he said, Because that this people hath transgressed my covenant which I commanded their fathers, and have not hearkened unto my voice; I also will not henceforth drive out any from before them of the nations which Joshua left when he died: that through them I may prove Israel, whether they will keep the way of the LORD to walk therein, as their fathers did keep it, or not. Therefore the LORD left those nations, without driving them out hastily; neither delivered he them into the hand of Joshua.”
‭‭Judges‬ ‭2:11-23‬ ‭

And so eventually when we read this type of thing in the later prophets

“I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts; a people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face; that sacrificeth in gardens, and burneth incense upon altars of brick; Behold, it is written before me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense into their bosom, your iniquities, and the iniquities of your fathers together, saith the LORD, which have burned incense upon the mountains, and blasphemed me upon the hills: therefore will I measure their former work into their bosom. But ye are they that forsake the LORD, that forget my holy mountain, that prepare a table for that troop, and that furnish the drink offering unto that number. Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not. And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name: that he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes. For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭65:2-3, 6-7, 11-12, 15-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Its makes sense tbat he’s extremely frustrated with them and even though he’s been incredibly merciful and has pardoned them again and again offering them this offer repeatedly

“let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭55:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

eventually he was going to fulfill all of the curses because they never repented and kept the law for more than a generetion maybe two or three times but they worshipped numerous other gods . Eventually he looked at them not as his bride but as a prostitute or “ whore “ or adulterous wife . Because they built altars for all the nations gods around them and worshipped those gods rather than him .

They persecuted and killed his prophets when he sent them calling them to repentance . They rejected and killed his son ect and those curses have come to pass but so has the promise of a new covenant now they have to convert like anyone else

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Amen.
Yes plainly taught.

Amen anyone who believes a former Jew or former gentile with no distinction remaining but just the one flock of anyone and everyone who believes in truth

 

[Beckworth]

Read Romans 9, 10 and 11. No one I know is claiming that anyone will be saved apart from accepting Christ. What some of us, me included, believe that Israel as a nation is still God's possession. The book of Revelation makes no sense unless Israel exists.

Do you not understand this fact? Israel is central to God's purpose. There 144,000 witnesses are of the 12 tribes (Dan is rejected). Israel will suffer again as the world's hate is poured out yet again. The world hates God so of course it hates Israel. No other nation, not even North Korea, is subject to such hostility and hatred - and for no logical reason whatsoever.

Do you know what a graft is? I can assure you that a graft does not kill the tree. So no, the Church does not replace Israel. God dissolves the spiritual differences while maintaining the nation of Israel as His own. Read God's covenant with Abraham again. Then look up the word "eternal". You might learn something.

So, let’s, as you say, look at Romans 9, 10, and 11. Paul begins in chapter 9 saying that he has great sorrow in his heart for his countrymen, Israel. In chapter 10, he tells us why; because they are NOT SAVED! (10:1). In verse 25 he quotes Hosea saying that though the gentiles we’re at one time not the people of God now they ARE his people and He calls them “Sons of the Living God.” In verse 27, he talks about a remnant that will be saved. Just as there was a remnant of FAITHFUL Jews that returned to Jerusalem after the 70 years in captivity in Babylon, in the Old Testament, even so, a faithful “remnant of Jews in the New Testament who have accepted Jesus as the Son of God, these Jews will be saved also. He ends the chapter by saying the Jews have not attained righteousness because they did not seek it by faith in Jesus, but tried to be saved by the works of their Old Testament Jewish law. Jesus is a “stumbling stone” to them, but he says “whoever BELIEVES on Him ( Jesus) will not be put to shame.

Chapter 10. I don’t know what point you are making in these chapters. They just seem to teach that Jews cannot be saved without confessing and believing in the Christ. Maybe that is your point. I don’t know, you did not say; you just said that I should read them. Chapter 11 is interesting because he says that God has not cast away His people but He is not talking about the whole nation of Israel, but as is evident from the context, He is talking about a faithful “remnant. Just as there was a faithful remnant in the days of Elijah (verse 2) so, verse 5, He says “at this present time there is a remnant who have been saved by “grace.” In the New Testament the Jews who accepted and believed in Jesus were God’s faithful remnant. Verse 7, the “nation” of Israel has not obtained salvation, but the “elect” those believing Jews have obtained it. The rest of the Jews God says are “blinded.”
“God has given them a spirit of stupor. Eyes that they should not see and ears that they should not hear—to this very day!”

All he is saying about the olive tree is that the unbelieving Jews were “CUT OFF”. And it was because of their UNBELIEF. Verse 20. That does not sound like they are “still God’s possession.” The nation of Israel has been cut off because of UNBELIEF. Roman’s 10:20. Then he tells the gentiles, you better be careful lest you be CUT OFF too. See verse 22. It’s talking about the Jews and the Gentiles, PEOPLE being cut off or grafted in— it is NOT talking about “churches”. Even in John 15, the vine is Christ and the branches are PEOPLE not churches. HE ( a person) who abides in Me ( the vine) and I in him( a person). These are NOT churches that are being grafted in, but He is talking about the Jewish branches being cut off because of unbelief, and the gentile branches were grafted in .

When he says all Israel will be saved, he’s talking about the ones who have been forgiven of their sins by the “DELIVERER” who is Jesus. Verses 26-27. The rest are called enemies of the gospel. We have all been disobedient children but we have obtained mercy by repenting and coming to God—both Jews and gentiles.

Now I’ve read and gone over Romans 9, 10, and 11 and it seems to me that it supports what I said in my first post. 1) the nation of Israel is no longer God’s chosen people ( 1 Peter 2:7-10). 2) they have been “cut off” because of unbelief. (Romans 10:20) 3) God has fulfilled all of His promises to them—He doesn’t owe them any land; they already have received it. The promises of GOd are only for those BELIEVING JEWS AND gentiles.

 

[Hevosmies]

According to the Bible, God's choice is made according to what He knew before we were born. .

Source? Cannot be Romans 8:29 as that verse speaks of God knowing people beforehand, people whom He foreknew, in a personal relational manner, look it up.

 

[CommodoreTeach]

1 Peter 2:9 also applies the chosen generation terminology to believers.

Yes. According to 1 Peter 2:9, Christians are God's chosen people, to "shew forth the praises of Him who called us out of darkness into his marvellous light"!

1 Peter 2:9 - 10
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

Why do the Jews say they're Gods chosen people? Does it mean they're justified and cleaner than non jews?

Those Jews who claim to be God's chosen people but who have not accepted Christ are liars. In Acts 7:51, Stephen say to them "Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye."

I would go farther with those Jews today who claim to be God's chosen people but reject Christ - not only are they "stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears", they are uncircumcised in mouth, eyes and hands, also. They may claim to be justified and cleaner than others, but in actuality they are condemned and filthier, because despite the very scriptures demonstrating Christ, these not only persist in rejection of God's salvation, but dare to claim they have rights to God's promises over God's own Chosen.

 

[Gideon300]

Source? Cannot be Romans 8:29 as that verse speaks of God knowing people beforehand, people whom He foreknew, in a personal relational manner, look it up.

I don't agree with you. That's OK, you are entitled to believe as you wish. Some things are fundamental, others open to debate. Predestination to me is not a big issue. I don't know who will be saved and who will not, so I witness to anyone I can.

 

[Gideon300]

Did you even read 1 Peter 2:7-10? You said Israel is God’s chosen people. That scripture proves they are not.

God brought back a “remnant” of faithful Jews to Jerusalem at the end of the 70 year captivity Jeremiah 23:3 where they lived in the land until AD70 when Rome destroyed their temple and all the genealogies. They have already returned to the land—that prophesy has been fulfilled.

You think they are hated for “no logical reason whatsoever”???? They killed the Son of God!! You are treating the murder of Jesus as if it doesn’t matter at all and has no significance.

Where is the scripture that says “they are still God’s possession?”?” The book of Revelation may not make any sense to you unless Israel still exists but I assure you that it does to many, many thousands of people who do not believe as you do.

There is a “physical” Israel, and there is a “spiritual” Israel. Romans 2:28-29. Christians today are the “Israel” of God—not the physical Jews.

I agree to an extent. Physical Israel exists according to God's plan and purpose. My issue is with those who reject that truth. You should also acknowledge that it was not "the Jews" that killed Jesus. The high priest and his cronies had every incentive to kill Jesus. They were the ones who sought His death. How many were there at the trial and crucifixion? And Jesus was crucified according to God's will and His own choice.

It is also the case that vast numbers of people who do not believe in Jesus hate Israel. The Catholic organisation justified persecution of Jews for the way they supposedly treated Jesus. Of course, those Jews must have been ancient in order to have crucified Christ. That is where you argument fails.

Who were the first to be saved? Jews. Where did Jesus command the disciples to preach first? Israel. Without the Jews, there would be no salvation. That is by God's will. You don't have to like it. It's simply how it is. The church is grafted in. Check out your horticultural manual. The graft does not kill the tree.

Israel has paid a terrible price for rebelling against God. God has not forsaken Israel. But they will suffer again during the tribulation period.

Many Jews are turning to Jesus even now. No, I do not believe that Jews are saved automatically. Salvation is on the same basis for Jew and non Jew.

Unless you believe the whole book of Revelation has been fulfilled or simply a myth, Israel is central. Read it for yourself.

 

[TrustandObey]

Please define God's "Chosen People" and what that means. Chosen for what?

The answer will vary by time period, area and circumstance.

The best answer in the here and now is found in Colossians 3:12.

"Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with feelings of compassion and with kindness, humility, gentleness and patience."

 

[lrs68]

Source? Cannot be Romans 8:29 as that verse speaks of God knowing people beforehand, people whom He foreknew, in a personal relational manner, look it up.

Indeed, just like He FOREKNEW Moses, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joshua, the Prophets, High Priests under the Law whom God justified and Sanctified through the works completed by Jesus [Verse 30].

 

[Beckworth]

I agree to an extent. Physical Israel exists according to God's plan and purpose. My issue is with those who reject that truth. You should also acknowledge that it was not "the Jews" that killed Jesus. The high priest and his cronies had every incentive to kill Jesus. They were the ones who sought His death. How many were there at the trial and crucifixion? And Jesus was crucified according to God's will and His own choice.

It is also the case that vast numbers of people who do not believe in Jesus hate Israel. The Catholic organisation justified persecution of Jews for the way they supposedly treated Jesus. Of course, those Jews must have been ancient in order to have crucified Christ. That is where you argument fails.

Who were the first to be saved? Jews. Where did Jesus command the disciples to preach first? Israel. Without the Jews, there would be no salvation. That is by God's will. You don't have to like it. It's simply how it is. The church is grafted in. Check out your horticultural manual. The graft does not kill the tree.

Israel has paid a terrible price for rebelling against God. God has not forsaken Israel. But they will suffer again during the tribulation period.

Many Jews are turning to Jesus even now. No, I do not believe that Jews are saved automatically. Salvation is on the same basis for Jew and non Jew.

Unless you believe the whole book of Revelation has been fulfilled or simply a myth, Israel is central. Read it for yourself.

Just because Christ had to die does not lessen the wrong or guilt for those who killed Him. As Matthew 18:7 says, “ offenses must come but woe to the man by whom they come.” Yes, Jesus had to die, but woe to the Jews for killing Him.

I do not hate the Jews. What I hate is their rejection of my Savior. I can’t “stand”with ANYONE—Jew or gentile —who stands AGAINST my Lord. The Jews in the New testament were ENEMIES to the gospel ( Romans 11:28) and they have not changed—they still stand against Him today. Jesus made it very clear that you either stand with HIM or you stand against Him. There is no middle ground. God may have used the Catholic Church to punish the Jews (I don’t know); He often used people or nations to punish them in the Old Testament—many times, but they are responsible for their own problems. They told God to “let His blood be on us and our children.” And it still is. Perhaps they placed a curse on themselves.

In Acts 13:46, Paul said it was necessary that the gospel be preached to the Jews FIRST! They had been God’s chosen people ; God honored them by giving them “first chance” to enter the Kingdom. But as that verse proves, they refused God’s grace; he says they were “UNWORTHY” ; they rejected God and His Son. And they still do today.
Yes, some Jews believed and obeyed Christ in the New Testament and they were the “faithful” who preached about Him and tried to teach others to accept Him as the Christ, but they were certainly not the majority. The majority persecuted the early Christian’s as the New Testament plainly shows. ( Just read the book if Acts).

As I stated in the last post—Romans 11:16-24 is not talking about “churches”. Read the context. It is talking about people—The Jews were the “natural” branch. The gentiles had been “grafted” in. The Jews were “cast away” verse 15 and “broken off” verse 17. BECAUSE OF UNBELIEF! See verse 20. These are PEOPLE he is talking about. What in the context makes you think he is talking about “churches”??

I pray that ALL Jews will turn to Jesus and believe. But until they do —2 John 9 says because they do not abide in the doctrine of Christ, I cannot “bid them Godspeed” nor receive them or encourage them in any way, because if we do, John says we are a “partaker of their evil deeds.”