Chosen People

[Beckworth]

Please define God's "Chosen People" and what that means. Chosen for what?

The Jews HAD BEEN God’s “chosen” people but not anymore. 1 Peter 2: 7 says, “ To you who BELIEVE…” He is talking to Christian’s. Jews do NOT believe. VERSE 9- “You are a “CHOSEN” people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, HIS OWN SPECIAL PEOPLE. VERSE 10 says we at one time were not the people of God, but “NOW”. Are the people of God. God could not be any clearer. The Jews have not been God’s chosen people since they killed God’s only beloved Son—2000 years ago. They cried out CRUCIFY HIM! CRUCIFY HIM! And they said “Let His blood be on us and our children.” I do not hate the Jews. But they murdered an innocent man who was the Savior and Redeemer of the world. As far as I know, as a people, they have not repented nor changed their mind about Him. 2 John 9 commands me not to encourage them, “ bid them Godspeed”, nor “receive” them or I will be guilty of their evil deeds.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Just because Christ had to die does not lessen the wrong or guilt for those who killed Him. As Matthew 18:7 says, “ offenses must come but woe to the man by whom they come.” Yes, Jesus had to die, but woe to the Jews for killing Him.

And yet so many verses God calls the Jewish people back to Him, telling them of His everlasting love and protection.

I do not hate the Jews. What I hate is their rejection of my Savior. I can’t “stand”with ANYONE—Jew or gentile —who stands AGAINST my Lord.

And so you pray for them and share the Gospel with them so they don't end up in hell, correct?

The Jews in the New testament were ENEMIES to the gospel ( Romans 11:28) and they have not changed—they still stand against Him today. Jesus made it very clear that you either stand with HIM or you stand against Him. There is no middle ground.

Also Romans 11
As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs...

God may have used the Catholic Church to punish the Jews (I don’t know); He often used people or nations to punish them in the Old Testament—many times, but they are responsible for their own problems. They told God to “let His blood be on us and our children.” And it still is. Perhaps they placed a curse on themselves.

So you're saying every Jew that has ever lived since Jesus death is guilty and cursed?

Ezekiel 18:20 The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

The Catholic church has committed enough wickedness down through the years. The Jews didn't deserve the Holocaust. I'm not saying you are saying that btw.

In Acts 13:46, Paul said it was necessary that the gospel be preached to the Jews FIRST! They had been God’s chosen people ; God honored them by giving them “first chance” to enter the Kingdom. But as that verse proves, they refused God’s grace; he says they were “UNWORTHY” ; they rejected God and His Son. And they still do today.
Yes, some Jews believed and obeyed Christ in the New Testament and they were the “faithful” who preached about Him and tried to teach others to accept Him as the Christ, but they were certainly not the majority. The majority persecuted the early Christian’s as the New Testament plainly shows. ( Just read the book if Acts).

Well the "church" has certainly paid them back for any persecution, that's for sure. Romans 11 Jews are blinded until the Gentiles are fully in the fold, the ones who are coming that is. There will be a time when that blindness will be lifted.

As I stated in the last post—Romans 11:16-24 is not talking about “churches”. Read the context. It is talking about people—The Jews were the “natural” branch. The gentiles had been “grafted” in. The Jews were “cast away” verse 15 and “broken off” verse 17. BECAUSE OF UNBELIEF! See verse 20. These are PEOPLE he is talking about. What in the context makes you think he is talking about “churches”??

Broken off but can and will be regrafted back into the tree.

I pray that ALL Jews will turn to Jesus and believe. But until they do —2 John 9 says because they do not abide in the doctrine of Christ, I cannot “bid them Godspeed” nor receive them or encourage them in any way, because if we do, John says we are a “partaker of their evil deeds.”

So you don't encourage or receive your unsaved loved ones? How do you treat them, or your neighbor or co-worker?

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

I do not hate the Jews. But they murdered an innocent man who was the Savior and Redeemer of the world.

How much guilt do you feel about your sins murdering an innocent man?

As far as I know, as a people, they have not repented nor changed their mind about Him. 2 John 9 commands me not to encourage them, “ bid them Godspeed”, nor “receive” them or I will be guilty of their evil deeds.

But they will change their mind. And you're told to bless them and pray for peace.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Those Jews who claim to be God's chosen people but who have not accepted Christ are liars.
I would go farther with those Jews today who claim to be God's chosen people but reject Christ - not only are they "stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears", they are uncircumcised in mouth, eyes and hands, also. They may claim to be justified and cleaner than others, but in actuality they are condemned and filthier, because despite the very scriptures demonstrating Christ, these not only persist in rejection of God's salvation, but dare to claim they have rights to God's promises over God's own Chosen.

Romans 9- I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my people, those of my own race, the people of Israel.

That is how much Paul loved the Jews. Imagine how many people we could get saved if we had Pauls heart for lost people. See the difference in the post above, the hate vs the love that Paul had, wishing he would be cursed and cut off from Christ to save his people. That is how you evangelize!! Paul had the heart of God.

 

[Edward429451]

God chooses those who will be saved. If He did not make that choice, no one would be saved. God's salvation began with Abraham. God chose to work through the nation of Israel, Abraham's descendants.

I don't think I can agree with you about this Brother.

They way I understand it, anyone can be chosen at any time.

Many are Called.
Few are Chosen.
Even fewer Respond.

We still have free will. You can be a chosen one, and God says, go do this...and the man thinks, but I wanted to go see my girlfriend tonight, so he does. So God would have to give the assignment to someone else.

2 Peter 3:9
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

 

[Burn1986]

Please define God's "Chosen People" and what that means. Chosen for what?

There’s only like a thousand threads on this. There’s some bogus religion called Calvinism that these “elect/ chosen” guys go crazy over

 

[Gideon300]

I don't think I can agree with you about this Brother.

They way I understand it, anyone can be chosen at any time.

Many are Called.
Few are Chosen.
Even fewer Respond.

We still have free will. You can be a chosen one, and God says, go do this...and the man thinks, but I wanted to go see my girlfriend tonight, so he does. So God would have to give the assignment to someone else.

2 Peter 3:9
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

I'll not argue. I have the same Bible as anyone else, except I don't use the KJV. I draw my conclusions from God's word. Others see it differently.

 

[Beckworth]

And yet so many verses God calls the Jewish people back to Him, telling them of His everlasting love and protection.



And so you pray for them and share the Gospel with them so they don't end up in

Romans 9- I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my people, those of my own race, the people of Israel.

That is how much Paul loved the Jews. Imagine how many people we could get saved if we had Pauls heart for lost people. See the difference in the post above, the hate vs the love that Paul had, wishing he would be cursed and cut off from Christ to save his people. That is how you evangelize!! Paul had the heart of God. [/




Also Romans 11
As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs...




So you're saying every Jew that has ever lived since Jesus death is guilty and cursed?

Ezekiel 18:20 The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

The Catholic church has committed enough wickedness down through the years. The Jews didn't deserve the Holocaust. I'm not saying you are saying that btw.



Well the "church" has certainly paid them back for any persecution, that's for sure. Romans 11 Jews are blinded until the Gentiles are fully in the fold, the ones who are coming that is. There will be a time when that blindness will be lifted.



Broken off but can and will be regrafted back into the tree.


So you don't encourage or receive your unsaved loved ones? How do you treat them, or your neighbor or co-worker?

2 John 9 says “ If anyone COMES TO YOU and does not bring this DOCTRINE, do not bid them Godspeed or invite them into your house…”. This chapter is talking about false teaches, religious doctrine, and deceivers who try to promote their false doctrine. A good example would be the Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons, who come to your house wanting to teach you their doctrine; but I personally don’t believe it is LIMITED to just those who come to your house. I believe the idea is that you do not do anything to promote false doctrine, or encourage anyone who is “anti-Christ; those are specifically mentioned in verse 7. So, I treat my “unsaved loved ones, neighbors , and co-workers” the same way any one who professes Christ would treat them. Probably the same way YOU would treat yours, only I do not go as far as YOU do in supporting their false doctrine and the antichrist.

I knew you would say that “I said” the Jews were “cursed” and you did not disappoint.
“IF” the Jews placed a curse on themselves with their own mouth, they also placed the curse on their descendants—their children. So this is not INHERITED sin like the kind discussed in Ezekiel 18. The “curse” would be placed on every generation from that point on. I don’t really believe you are just “ignorant” of this but if not, then your motive for using this comes into question.

God “calls” the Jews in the same way He calls anyone—by the gospel. 2 Thess. 2:14. And even though Paul had great love for his Jewish brethren, he wasn’t able to save most of them. And his love for them did not BLIND him from their evil ways. He called Elymas ( Acts 13), a Jew, “ full of all deceit and all fraud, you son of the Devil, you enemy of all righteousness,”. He “shook off the dust of his feet against them” in Antioch, and in Corinth, when the Jews “opposed him and blasphemed”, he said, “ Your blood be on your own heads. From now on I will go to the Gentiles.” Acts 18.

God does not condemn us for pointing out false doctribe, exposing false teachers, or naming those who are “ANTI-CHRIST. He tells us to do that along with the commands to “love and pray for them. We can do both—just like Paul did.

There is so much false teaching being done with Romans 11 that I plan to devote a separate post about that chapter. I hope you will read it.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

2 John 9 says “ If anyone COMES TO YOU and does not bring this DOCTRINE, do not bid them Godspeed or invite them into your house…”. This chapter is talking about false teaches, religious doctrine, and deceivers who try to promote their false doctrine. A good example would be the Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons, who come to your house wanting to teach you their doctrine; but I personally don’t believe it is LIMITED to just those who come to your house. I believe the idea is that you do not do anything to promote false doctrine, or encourage anyone who is “anti-Christ; those are specifically mentioned in verse 7. So, I treat my “unsaved loved ones, neighbors , and co-workers” the same way any one who professes Christ would treat them. Probably the same way YOU would treat yours, only I do not go as far as YOU do in supporting their false doctrine and the antichrist.

So what we're not going to do is put words in my mouth I did not say. I will respect you, and I'll assume I will get the same in return. I understand this is a long thread so maybe you didn't see what I said and I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. I said that the Jews are still, today, blinded to the truth about their Messiah. One day they will know Him but they are blinded until the Gentiles have come in.

I knew you would say that “I said” the Jews were “cursed” and you did not disappoint.
“IF” the Jews placed a curse on themselves with their own mouth, they also placed the curse on their descendants—their children. So this is not INHERITED sin like the kind discussed in Ezekiel 18. The “curse” would be placed on every generation from that point on. I don’t really believe you are just “ignorant” of this but if not, then your motive for using this comes into question.

No, I don't believe that. I don't what you mean about my motives. But I don't believe in curses. After Christ everyone stands guilty for their own sin on an individual basis.

God “calls” the Jews in the same way He calls anyone—by the gospel.

Which no one here has said anything differently.

2 Thess. 2:14. And even though Paul had great love for his Jewish brethren, he wasn’t able to save most of them. And his love for them did not BLIND him from their evil ways. He called Elymas ( Acts 13), a Jew, “ full of all deceit and all fraud, you son of the Devil, you enemy of all righteousness,”.

The man was a sorcerer, that is why Paul rebuked him, not because he was a Jew. He was trying to stop Paul, who himself was blinded before he "met Jesus".

8 But Elymas the sorcerer (for that is what his name means) opposed them and tried to turn the proconsul from the faith. 9 Then Saul, who was also called Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, looked straight at Elymas and said, 10 “You are a child of the devil and an enemy of everything that is right! You are full of all kinds of deceit and trickery. Will you never stop perverting the right ways of the Lord? 11 Now the hand of the Lord is against you. You are going to be blind for a time, not even able to see the light of the sun.”

He “shook off the dust of his feet against them” in Antioch, and in Corinth, when the Jews “opposed him and blasphemed”, he said, “ Your blood be on your own heads. From now on I will go to the Gentiles.” Acts 18.

Yes, we have established that sinners are lost. What did Jesus say when James and John wanted to call down fire from heaven? You were once lost and in need of a Savior. As we all are.

God does not condemn us for pointing out false doctribe, exposing false teachers, or naming those who are “ANTI-CHRIST. He tells us to do that along with the commands to “love and pray for them. We can do both—just like Paul did.

On that we can agree.

There is so much false teaching being done with Romans 11 that I plan to devote a separate post about that chapter. I hope you will read it.

Tag me, I will give it a read for sure.

 

[GWH]

Please define God's "Chosen People" and what that means. Chosen for what?

God's chosen people are those who satisfy God's requirement for salvation aka the Christian creed,
which I understand to be the following:

The normative way of stating the kerygma/GRFS in the NT is “Accept Christ Jesus as Lord” (as in 2Cor. 4:5 & Col. 2:6). The main points of Christian orthodoxy implicit in this statement can be explained or elaborated as follows:

1. There is a/one all-loving and just Lord or Creator God (Deut. 6:4, John 3:16, 2Thes. 1:6), who is both able (2Tim. 1:12) and willing (1Tim. 2:3-4, Ezek. 33:11) to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever.
2. Human beings are selfish or sinful (Rom. 3:23, 2Tim. 3:2-4, Col. 3:5), miserable (Gal. 5:19-21), and hopeless (Eph. 2:12) or hell-bound at the judgment (Matt. 23:33 & 25:46) when they reject God’s salvation (John 3:18, Rom. 2:5-11).
3. Jesus is God’s Messiah/Christ and incarnate Son, the way that God has chosen (John 3:16, Acts 16:30-31, Phil. 2:9-11) of providing salvation by means of his atoning death on the cross for the payment of the penalty for the sins of humanity (Rom. 3:22-25 & 5:9-11), followed by his resurrection to reign in heaven (1Cor. 15:14-28).
4. Thus, every person who hears the NT Gospel needs to repent and accept God’s grace or justification in Jesus as Christ/Messiah the Lord or Supreme Commander (Luke 2:11, John 14:6, Acts 16:31), which means trying to obey His commandment to love one another (Matt. 22:37-40, John 13:35, Rom. 13:9)—forever (Matt. 10:22, Psa. 113:2).
5. Then God’s Holy Spirit will establish a saving relationship with all who truly accept/love Him (Rev. 3:20) that will eventually achieve heaven after Christ returns at God’s resurrection of all saved souls when everyone cooperates fully with His will (John 14:6, 17&26, Rom. 8:6-17, Gal. 6:7-9, Eph. 1:13-14, Heb. 10:36, 12:1, Jam. 1:2-4).

 

[appdroid]

Please define God's "Chosen People" and what that means. Chosen for what?

It means the earthly nation of Israel was selected to deliver the Messiah. Nothing else . After that happened God's protection left them and they ceased to be his earthly nation anymore.

 

[GWH]

It means the earthly nation of Israel was selected to deliver the Messiah. Nothing else . After that happened God's protection left them and they ceased to be his earthly nation anymore.

You cite the OT definition, but don't ignore the NT def that refers to those who believe the Gospel (1 Peter 2:9, Mark 13:20, Romans 11:7).