Not "based" upon but rather "conditional" upon--in order to make MFW rather than mere animal instinct or robot programming.
Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
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Not "based" upon but rather "conditional" upon--in order to make MFW rather than mere animal instinct or robot programming.
I want to rephrase something I said earlier.
God is omniscient.
He elects those whom He knows who (while under the freeing power of His grace to control our sin nature) will become willing to believe.
In that manner.
All elected will at some turn in their life, find themselves believing.
That is why it may feel pleased and somewhat odd, to suddenly begin to understand that which was impossible to comprehend just prior to deciding to believe.
Who chose to be born? Who chose their parents? Place of birth? Who made you to prefer some colors over others? Who caused you to prefer certain foods over others? Is God unfair in choosing such things?
Who sets the bounds of your habitation? Who chooses the weather each day? Who allows you to prosper? Is God unfair in choosing such things?
It seems it's only unfair if God decides to have a people for Himself. But not in the OT. It's okay for God to choose a people then. Then it's okay to covenant with a people and put them in a land. But somehow it's not okay for God to choose a people and put them in Christ.
And what is wrong with God choosing? Isn't walking in the Spirit all about submitting to God's choices? The fact is, we were never created to live independently from God. Even Adam and Eve, before they sinned, walked daily with God. All this fuss about choosing by a people who are supposed to be walking according to His choices.
Enough that God my Father knows
Nothing this faith can dim.
He gives the very best to those
Who leave the choice with Him.
Hudson Taylor
Who sets the bounds of your habitation? Who chooses the weather each day? Who allows you to prosper? Is God unfair in choosing such things?
It seems it's only unfair if God decides to have a people for Himself. But not in the OT. It's okay for God to choose a people then. Then it's okay to covenant with a people and put them in a land. But somehow it's not okay for God to choose a people and put them in Christ.
And what is wrong with God choosing? Isn't walking in the Spirit all about submitting to God's choices? The fact is, we were never created to live independently from God. Even Adam and Eve, before they sinned, walked daily with God. All this fuss about choosing by a people who are supposed to be walking according to His choices.
Enough that God my Father knows
Nothing this faith can dim.
He gives the very best to those
Who leave the choice with Him.
Hudson Taylor
Thanks for doing so.
I'm going to leave this for anyone else who may wish to pick it up. Maybe I'll chime in if someone does.
What I wanted to clarify, which I think you did, is that man's will to believe is involved in election in regard to salvation.
Rom9:16 is speaking about Jacob's [corporate] election when Paul quotes it was not by human will or effort. But when he gets down to the Remnant and Faith he's heading into salvation matters and there's nothing stating human will is not involved in Faith as you've stated it is (as I understand you).
Thanks again.
God did choose a people and put them in Christ. He chose those people who choose to believe in Him and He knew from eternity past when He chose Jesus as Messiah that there would be such people who would choose to believe who God says He is. God has always known there would be people who would choose to believe in Him and whatever He says - like His Good News about His Son.
I have a different take on the elect in the church age.
All elect are believers, but not all believers are His elect. If we grow in Grace and knowledge, learn how to be filled with the Spirit and walk in the Spirit.......He will elect us to higher service.
We know, just by this thread alone, MANY believers are misled.
Matt 24:24
For false christs and false prophets will arise and will provide great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.
God does not waste anything.
We are witnessing to the reality that God does not over rule what men want to believe.
Yes. And AMEN.
The interactions on this thread alone CONDEMNS the calvies/reformed theology.
yes ... mankind is "supposed to be walking according to His choices" ... but much of mankind rejects what they are "supposed to do" because they prefer to serve their own selfish interests rather than walk in the ways of God.
I have shared the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ with people and some have stated the Christian life was not for them because there's no "fun" ... when the "fun" they experience is not really "fun" when compared with the joy found in close proximity to God ...
Mark 8:34-38 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it. For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.
God tells us over and over in His Word that the life of the believer is not all sunshine and rainbows ... the believer will experience times of reproach, temptation, testing, affliction, tribulation ... however, the believer is empowered to withstand and we have great and precious promises to lay hold of which help us remain strong in faith and overcome those times of trying ...
2 Peter 1:2-4 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
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I would possibly agree with you if Romans 8:29 said WHAT God foreknew and not WHOM God foreknew.
Along with this, God didn't choose Israel because of anything that was true of them. He simply chose to set His affection upon them. And that's still how He chooses...not based on anything that is true of us. He simply sets His affection upon us.
Oh Puuleeeese ...Jesus made the analogy take it up with Him!!!
Birth is a singular event in time, boy you guys have to conflate, expand and add where ever necessary to serve the "system"
I don't know if you have children but if labour lasted nine months, the human population would most likely have ended millennia ago.
Birth is birth, as you said. My first was forty hours long. that was more than enough time to spend giving birth.
I am assuming you're a woman by your avatar so forgive me if that is incorrect but even if you are a man, I'm sure you can understand that birth cannot last nine months.
You are correct and I have two births and the actual birth, the baby leaving the womb into the world is a singular event, I am quite confident in the knowledge of Jesus when He made the analogy.
The awesome thing about giving birth is, once it is over you forget the pain, what a blessing that is, otherwise no one would have more children.
Reminder to Cameron.. since he forgets all the time>>>>>>>That was not for individual salvation.
Amen. And Amen. What are we going to use during these times of testing? The Lords problem solving devices or the worlds?
But this doesn't come miraculously or instantaneously to the believer. One needs to advance in His Grace and knowledge in order to KNOW how to institute HIS problem solving devices.